Help me figure out what to do about the neighbors dogs!

[hereyago]

Unpopular opinion......if I was in your situation: They are aggressive, damaged my property and were in my yard. There would be a couple of dead dogs in my backyard. Simple as that. I wouldn't put up with that crap.

 

[iivye]

I wouldn't bother with the meeting either. We, and our dog, have met our neighbors dogs on multiple occasions and one of the neighbor's dogs (a corgi) still came under the fence and into our yard and attacked/injured my Shih-tzu. My neighbor was mortified and added support to his side of the fence and we have never had a problem again but those dogs still come over and bark at us when we are out in the yard. Funny thing is, we take care of their dogs when they are out of town (the dogs stay at their house) but I have never had a problem with them when I go over to take care of them or when I take their dogs and mine on walks together. I guess they are just super territorial when they are in the backyard.

I would definitely file complaints with animal control. Your neighbor needs to put his dogs on a tether in the back yard so it is physically impossible for them to get into your yard. I keep my dog on a tether in the yard even though it's fenced because he is an escape artist. There is no reason for them not to do the same.

 

[tzolkin]

There's no comparison between a pit bull and Pomeranian, except that they're dogs. Which one would you want to meet in a dark alley? Not condemning pit bulls, I have no doubt they can be quite friendly. But when aggressive, one is much more of a threat than the other.

I agree with you, however I do agree with Klayfish's point as well. Pits fall within a group where the menace factor may reach the literal point of life and limb. In that sense the comparison with the menace of Pomeranians simply doesn't stand up.

Unless I'm completely misreading the post, I can't see where that poster made any "comparison" between the threat of a pit bull and a Pomeranian. Just mentioning that s/he had a similar issue with their neighbors' dogs.


OP- I would call animal control and ask them about the situation. (You don't have to report the incident yet if you don't want to, but just find out about your local laws and regulations so you can have an informed conversation with the owners.) I would think there must be laws in your town that dogs must be properly contained within their own yard (similar to leash laws). In that case, it's the responsibility of the other family to either provide an adequate fence on their property or not allow the dog(s) out unleashed. My neighborhood actually has in the HOA rules that dogs cannot be outside unattended, which would also eliminate this issue. After one incident, they should have stopped allowing the dog(s) outside without watching them diligently. Once they realized the behavior was continuing, they should have been keeping the dog restrained with a leash. I really don't see where that's so difficult for some people. We have had three dogs and none of them has ever been outside without a leash.

 

[Soldier's*Sweeties]

Ok, now that this thread is no longer simply about fencing I'll be honest. I've called animal control before and problem is their 30min to a couple of hours away and the threat is usually immediate. I'd give the neighbors a chance as I have before but after a warning I'll shoot their dog for them if it threatens me or my family. I'd probably tell them this also, my experience some people don't take action until forced. Putting them on notice forces them. And before anyone starts, I know the laws in my area and I'm within my rights.
OP, do what you have to to protect your family.

I actually have to agree and I am a pretty big Pit lover. There is a line I would have draw and if it's between my family or a dog...well...

You can only give them so many warnings and calls to Animal Control or the police. You have the right to feel safe. It is 100% on THEM to be responsible if they chose to have a dog that is reactive. (I've said before that my dog is aggressive toward other dogs. He is, but I would never put him or another animal in a questionable position. That's MY responsibility as his owner. No one else's.)

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I don't really care that the dog is a pitbull. That part matters none to me. I'm not really in a debate whatsoever on breeds here but in the grand scheme of the situation what is being seen is an aggressive dog...but what people latch onto is it is a pitbull and that becomes the focus not the fact that the dog is aggressive but what breed of dog it is. Like I said not going into a debate just making a statement. It's interesting that the OP has advised that only 1 of the dogs is aggressive unless I missed later on where it was updated to say both dogs were aggressive.

The only part that the breed would matter is if there is a city ordinance (which my metro has multiple cities that do) where there are either none allowed or stricter rules. I would suggest you review your city's rules regarding dogs if not to just be aware.

Now on to the issue of damaged property. They should really be the ones to pay for the fence repairs since it was their dog that did the damage. They do seem to understand that something stronger needs to be put up hence the plywood. Obviously none of this may end up working out. Depending on their willingness to alleviate the situation I would hope that they are getting some professional assistance on working on the whys and how to work with a dog that is aggressive and/or reactive. That might even help out why the one dog just seems to be the way they are towards your property (meaning your lot/house/residents of your house not your fence perse)

The barking comes with dogs period. My nextdoor neighbors dogs don't tend to bark much and when they do for an extended period of time I know something is up. The thing is one is nearly deaf and the other can hardly see. It's annoying when I want some peace and quiet (especially since our master bedroom is on that side of the house where they are) but for us it's hardly worth getting completely mad about it. I'm sure a lot of the issue you have with the barking is related to the aggressiveness displayed with it.

I wouldn't suggest a meet up at all at this time. I would a) want the dog to be with a professional working with them b) that professional to tell me if it was a good idea c) for that professional to be there at the meeting(s) should that be the thing to do. No way would I have multiple people with limited or no knowledge around when faced with the situation you are in.

I'm not sure what will help with the fence being more secure. Is the dog only chewing through the wood or is it digging underneath it? Depending on what your rules are if you have any in your neigbhorhood I would consider replacing your fence with something other than wood. That's up to you though.

 

[tvguy]

PLEASE DO NOT SUBJECT YOUR DOG TO THAT!! (ETA ie a Meet and Greet.) If they attack it, there is no going back. They are not demonstrating "friendly" tendencies, and will not likely be friendly toward your dog. In fact, two together can trigger a "gang mentality" where they feed off eachother's aggression. Your dog won't stand a chance.

All the dog behavior "experts" say this is what should be done. I am not an expert, but it must work often enough that they feel it is worth it.

 

[wilkeliza]

All the dog behavior "experts" say this is what should be done. I am not an expert, but it must work often enough that they feel it is worth it.

No dog expert suggests that you should take a dog that is reactive to your dog and have them meet. There would be a ton of work needed before you let them or you meet in person. Every dog trainer I have worked with would not suggest an aggressive dog be taken anywhere near a dog or person it reacts to unless it is with someone who has 100% control and the other person involved is also has training. It would always start at a place that belongs to neither dog (think the park) and at far distances with correction for unwanted behavior. The problem with any dog is if not done properly both handlers and the other dog are at risk when it comes to reactive behaviors. Heck when I worked for a big shelter it was not uncommon to wear padding during these types of desensitization sessions that happened over months.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I'd call the police. IMO right now you aren't even safe going from your house to your car. No matter what they say, don't let your dog meet theirs. They have an improperly trained dog that they are not restraining appropriately. They are not taking appropriate action in this situation.

A million likes. DO NOT meet these dogs.

 

[pryncess527]

Please check the laws in your state before you consider taking violent action. That is not a judgment -- violent action may well be called for -- but the level of threat you must be experiencing can vary from state to state. Know the law for your area.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

All the dog behavior "experts" say this is what should be done. I am not an expert, but it must work often enough that they feel it is worth it.

A million times wrong. The owners do not know what they are doing.

I have an aggressive dog who is trained no less. He is 12 and I was never able to fully train the dog aggression out of him.

I use a pinch collar when necessary when walking or training.

OP, put up a tallest, strongest, toughest fence you are able to legally put up. I would.

 

[wilkeliza]

OP whose lot does the fence fall on or is it a true lot line fence? If possible move your portion of the fence slightly onto your side and then keep track every time the dog causes damage. That is the only way it is truly your property damage. If it is truly on the lot line then it gets trickier and you would have to start asking property lawyers. I would be asking the neighbor to reinforce their side or agree to reimburse me to reinforce my side. Crazy things is chain link isn't going to stop a reactive dog. It is amazing what dogs especially bigger dogs can do if they are in the trance of aggression. You could go ahead and put up an electric chain fence and then dog will get a pretty gnarly jolt if he makes it over but then of course your dog and kids might get one too if they touch it. The next investments would be a little more costly because it would be iron or re-barb which a dog isn't going to snap.

 

[tzolkin]

All the dog behavior "experts" say this is what should be done. I am not an expert, but it must work often enough that they feel it is worth it.

I have done extensive research on the topic and can assure you that no expert would tell anyone to allow the dogs to meet. (At least not in the sense of what most people would consider "meeting".)

We worked with a professional dog trainer with a dog-aggressive pit bull for over a year. Even with desensitization and counter-conditioning we were never able to get closer than 20 feet from another dog without a serious reaction. If this is truly a case of aggression like the OP indicates, approaching the neighbors and allowing the dogs to "meet" would likely result in a dead or seriously injured dog.

And, my experience was with a professional and someone very dedicated to training. (I was not working at the time, so I devoted 24/7 to working with the dog.) The neighbors obviously do not have a clue about proper dog introductions or training, and despite how nice and apologetic they seem don't appear to have even enough common sense to figure out that they should not be leaving an aggressive and destructive dog unattended outside.

 

[cabanafrau]

Yes, I am a very responsible dog owner as is my mom. As previous posters have said one dog can vary from another within in the same breed tremendously, I have seen that first hand.

I appreciate your honesty and I am sorry that you are so adverse to an entire breed the way that you are. My dog happens to be very well liked among my neighbors, my one neighbor has a 10 YO daughter who will come over from time to time and throw the ball for my dog. When we take walks the people in my neighborhood all say hi to her and all like her very much. If it weren't for me walking her my neighborhood wouldn't even know I have a dog, she doesn't usually bark and she stays in my fenced in backyard.

If anyone in my neighborhood has an issue with her than I don't have to worry about them being where they shouldn't be

To be clear, I absolutely take you at your word that you are a responsible and loving pet owner and believe your dog gives no sign of threatening anyone. If I were your neighbor it wouldn't be a case of, oh, can't stand that Poohlove family and their horrible dog. I'll guess it would be a case of friendly neighbors, no problem with your dog because by all appearances it behaves well and you obviously take good care of it and keep it under control. I might get used to saying a hello to your pup if I am out in the yard when he is, just like I do with my neighbors' dogs. I would not be bold enough to reach over to pet your pup or give him any treats like I do with my neighbors' dogs.

As a kid I grew up with a German Shepherd next door who loved to pace the fence between us whenever anyone was in our yard, tail slunk under, loping along the distinct way their breed does. He generally either barked his head off the whole time or gave a low growl, eyes on anyone in our yard the whole time. It was normal sometimes to mow the entire backyard with the dog pacing and barking the entire time. We never bothered or antagonized him a bit, but it was clear if we approached and reached over the fence to pet him he was prepared to defend his territory. My parents got along well with the neighbors, doing BBQs back and forth, favors, etc. but it was a happy day in our house when the father moved away with the dog in the divorce -- as far as the dog no longer being a factor, not the moving away or the divorce. Interestingly when I was very young my dad was up quite late the night before our first WDW vacation getting things ready and realized their home was on fire. He phoned the fire department and went to go check if husband was home because we knew mom and kids were at her parents' for the week. Husband had been drinking, fell asleep with a cigarette & the house went up with just he and the dog home and he was still asleep. My dad ended up using their spare key to go in the house & grab the guy out to the front lawn as fire dept arrived. I guess the dog was so panicked he simply bolted out when my dad opened the door and went in. The obviously scared dog started showing aggression to the firefighters and my dad wound up grabbing a broom from our garage to shoo/swat the dog into the backyard behind the gate and into the pen so he wouldn't bite anyone and no one would decide to just harm him or worse to eliminate the threat in the emergency.

Hadn't thought about that story in quite a few years. Kind of fitting I share it with its Disney connection on this site.

 

[Uncranky Donald]

What if there are no treats?

Ummm, I have no idea This is just one particular family's protocol for introducing visitors to their pet...just sharing my life experience, thats all.

 

[usnuzuloose]

For me I am more tolerating about dogs barking. If it were me I would be trying to sit with them and come up with a plan to see how we could make the fence more safe all the way around. I don't like to see anyone lose their pets. I am in no way saying that your child or pets stay in danger in any manner. But this is my HO.

 

[tvguy]

No dog expert suggests that you should take a dog that is reactive to your dog and have them meet. There would be a ton of work needed before you let them or you meet in person. Every dog trainer I have worked with would not suggest an aggressive dog be taken anywhere near a dog or person it reacts to unless it is with someone who has 100% control and the other person involved is also has training. It would always start at a place that belongs to neither dog (think the park) and at far distances with correction for unwanted behavior. The problem with any dog is if not done properly both handlers and the other dog are at risk when it comes to reactive behaviors. Heck when I worked for a big shelter it was not uncommon to wear padding during these types of desensitization sessions that happened over months.

I used quotes around expert. Just watch any of the dog behavior shows on Animal Planet. Not saying it is right, just saying it is a common recommendation.

 

[Dentam]

Pit bulls are one of the banned breeds where I live. If I were in your situation, I would just ask them to not leave their dogs out in the yard. They should only be outdoors when being walked on a leash by their owners. If they didn't comply, I would call animal control.

 

[Forevermarypoppins]

Do you have any inclination why they own these 2 dogs. Illegal activity?
It takes ignorant people to keep aggressive dogs. Appealing to you to "make friends" with their dog, your dog, is a cover up. I would bet $ that as soon as you do something to protect yourselves, your neighbors will not be so friendly anymore.
Best of luck!

BTW, I rescued a part PIT and we had DUKE for 9 years. Best dog ever. My neighbor from day one wouldn't let her kids outside if we all were. Luckily her husband wasn't ignorant and soon realized what a great dog we had.
Aggression comes in all breeds.

 

[DisneyOma]

Our neighbors moved in a couple months ago. They have 2 pit bulls, and one of them has been very aggressive towards us and our dog. It has chewed through our fence twice, only enough to get it's head through. Both times DH replaced the board and talked to them. They are very nice and have always been very apologetic. They also put up plywood on their side to reinforce the holes. Tonight I hear their dogs barking like crazy. We have a sunroom attached to the back of our house, so I peer through the windows and find the aggressive one barking and snarling at me. It had chewed through 3 fence boards to break into our yard. Thank God our dog was inside! DH went over to handle it again, he fixed the boards on our side, they put up more plywood. They want our family to meet the dogs so hopefully they won't be aggressive to us anymore, but that's not going to stop them from wanting to attack my dog. I can't feel safe letting my dog run around its own backyard, and I will NEVER feel safe letting my 8 year old in the backyard without an adult as things are now.

So what I need is some ideas to make our fence more secure. We were thinking of covering our side with welded wire fencing? Any other ideas?

Electrify it?

The neighbors should have their dogs restrained/penned in their back yard if they keep being aggressive and escaping.

 

[momz]

Find a local fence company that sells heavy gauge chain link. Typical chain link fencing is easily bent and twisted by dogs, but the larger gauge is impossible for them to bend.

I know a guy who had a large boxer that tore through a hollow core door to get out of the room being used to house the dog. The guy had to build a large kennel out of 2X4 framing and gorilla gauge chain link. That dog would work,so,hard trying get out hat its gums and lips would bleed. It was awful. The poor dog needed training, but unfortunately, the only training it received was negative and the dog became more and more agressive. Eventually, the dog developed a seizure disorder, and was put down. I have to wonder if it had neurological problems that contributed to irs aggression, or if it was entirely a training issue.

Long story, but the gorilla gauge kept people safe from that dog.