Help me feel better about this "smart" financial decision...

u2katie

Earning My Ears
Joined
Aug 14, 2007
Messages
18
I don't post here often, but I've been mainly a lurker for the past few years. We love Disney and just got backv from our last trip three weeks ago! But now I'm in a situation and I really need some outsiders' opinions, and well, this was the first place I thought about finding those. So, here goes...

My sister is a young, single mom with two kids by two different guys. Her oldest is turning 2 this weekend, her youngest is 7 months. She has her hands full for sure. She works at Taco Bell about 20 hours a week and of course gets free daycare from the state as well as $500 a month in food stamps and energy assistance. The only bills that really leaves her with is rent, gas, and her cell phone bill. Of course, she never has any money to pay these bills. Month after month she borrows money from our mom to pay her rent, put gas in her car, buy cigarettes, etc. Our mom is in no position to loan or give her money, as she just filed bankruptcy a little more than a year ago, and is currently living with a broken stove and no refrigerator, but she tries to help her out as much as she can. Our mom was a single mom, too, so I think she sympathizes with her.

Anyway, my sister is unable to pay her rent this month (last month, due July 1) and received a 5-day eviction notice from her landlord. Our mom tried talking the landlord into waiting four additional days for the rent, but no dice. Mom does not have the money to give sister for rent as she does not get paid until next Friday so she asked me for the money. Everybody that knows me and my DH knows that our policy is that we do not lend money unless we can afford for it to be a gift. We are young (28) and are not in a perfect financial situation ourselves. I have a huge student loan (that will be paid off in 5 years, whoohoo!), car payment, rent, and a small amount of credit card debt. We have money in savings, but are certainly not in the position to be able to loan $500 or even $100 without worrying about it. But, this is not what sister sees. She sees us living in a decent house, driving nice cars, and going on vacation so thinks that we have lots of money laying around. We both work full-time at modest jobs (I'm a teacher, he works in the pressroom at our local newspaper) and will probably never be "rich". Our DD(4) is well-taken care of but not "spoiled" by any means.

Anyway, long story short (haha not really...this is getting too long!), mom is mad because I won't loan money to sister or let her move in with us for two months until she gets her financial aid check from school this fall. She says she is going to take out a title loan on her car to give her the money for rent; I don't know what to say about that. I am apparently a horrible person for not loaning her money and said that now she knows my "true colors" and she hopes that I never need anything from her in the future. She also informed me that she will be giving everything to sister when she dies, which I know is just a huge guilt trip. Obviously there's a lot of history here, as well, but I won't get into that.

So....outsiders' opinions....am I a horrible person? We do help her out in many ways, just not monetarily. At least once a month I buy each of her kids an outfit from Target, I just gave her deodorant and pads from my stockpile, just bought the older one a potty chair. We do what we can. My head tells me we did the right thing, but oh my heart still feels guilty.
 
You did the right thing. Your policy is a good one. You can say, "I love you and I trust that you will work out your finances in the way that's best for you."

My mother and sisters used to do the same thing to me. I ended up with horrible credit and no savings and hit 35 when I finally said no more.

Only prob, you might become "cast out" of the inner circle like I did. But I feel proud of my resolve and my own care for myself.

Best of luck to you. :hug:

BTW, there are options for your sis: emergency money from dept of human services, emergency rent when being evicted, etc. She needs to call social services and plead her case. I've been there, and been on the other end. It's all going to be ok.
 
I have no idea what I would do, but a title loan pretty much means she is GOING to lose her car. Those things tend to be even worse than payday loans.

So I guess my question would be...what do you want to happen to your sister? I'm not meaning that in a "loaded" way, but seriously, if she finally hits bottom, if she finally has her "V-8 moment" (it's possible I'm aging myself by referencing those ads), HOW is she going to start building it all back up? What will her steps be? Can she do it, if no one can help her, once she hits bottom?


My mom once let her sister and 4 year old stay with us. It was supposed to be a month, and I believe it ended up being a whole year...it was very difficult, we lived in a tiny house, 800 sq ft, I remember many days of me and my brother escaping on our bikes, to go hang out with our mom at the bookstore she worked at, so we didn't have to deal with my cousin and aunt (a bit overbearing back then)....but it HELPED my aunt and provided a place for my cousin to sleep (on the hide-a-bed, in our living room, taking up almost the whole room)...I don't know what they would have done if my mom hadn't been willing to do that. My aunt DID get a job as soon as she could, and helped out...and I haven't a clue as to who watched my cousin most of the time...but I think it was just a "soft space" for my aunt to land in, while getting herself together after a nasty divorce...


but ya know, obviously you learned very different lessons from your mother than your sister did, and maybe it's time to just let mom and sis do their thing and not worry about them any longer. Only you know them, know what changes might happen from help if any... I color this situation with my aunt's problems, and might go more on the sympathetic side...but your sister might not be my mom's sister!

I wish you luck in this decision!
 
I just want to say hugs to you! :grouphug: I also have a difficult family when it comes to money, but this situation is quite tought to deal with. My question to you about doing the right thing is when will the cycle stop? If you gave her the money this month, she'd probably be right back in this situation again very soon. I'm not sure what I'd do, but Suze Orman agrees with your lending principle. Only give it if you don't need it back. That said, I'm worried about the future of your mom and sister, as I'm sure you are as well. If I were able to help, I probably would, but for how long? I don't know.

Edit: Plus, the fact that she smokes tells me your sister hasn't cut back her budget to the bare bones. Smoking is one of the first things to go in Til Debt Do Us Part; the host considers it a luxury--if you are in debt and can't afford the smokes, you quit. [Not wanting to start a discussion about smoking...]
 

I have a niece who has a small child and holds down 1 full time job and 1 part-time job to make ends meet. So I think your sister needs to get another job and grow-up. Maybe she is not mature or responsible enough to be a mother yet. But, that is a whole different topic. You need to concentrate on your future. It is okay to help out by giving the kids things, but she needs to learn to make her own way. ou will not solve her problem by giving her money.
 
I have a niece who has a small child and holds down 1 full time job and 1 part-time job to make ends meet. So I think your sister needs to get another job and grow-up. Maybe she is not mature or responsible enough to be a mother yet. But, that is a whole different topic. You need to concentrate on your future. It is okay to help out by giving the kids things, but she needs to learn to make her own way. ou will not solve her problem by giving her money.

I agree with StitchBuddy completely. She has to learn this lesson the hard way. Do what you can to help out the kids, but loaning/giving her cash to bail her out will not help. If you want to do something for her, next time you pick up some clothes for the kids get her a copy of Dave Ramsey's Total Money Makeover and tell her to read it.

You did the right thing. Neither a borrower or lender be, especially with close friends or relatives.
 
You did the right thing!! It's hard but the reality is your sister needs to grow up and your mother in enabling her continued immaturity. Sometimes in life we have to make sacrifices, no money...no cigarettes or cell phone. Your sister should also get a full time job. You work hard for what you have and deserve the things you can afford. You should not feel guilty. What your mother fails to realize is it is not your fault that your sister struggles.
 
I learned a long time ago to stop trying to "fix" my family. Some of them are toxic assets, and in the same way the banks dumped their toxic assets, I dumped mine. You can only give people so many second chances.


As for gifts, I would give things to the kids; but the only gift I would give your sister would be a giant box of condoms.

I also wonder why your mother wants your sister to live with you, wouldn't her home be a better choice.
 
sounds like my sister. I'm sure she also uses the kids so people feel quilty for her. You 1 and 1st proierty is your own dd and husband and your own bills. The more you help someone like your sister the more they try to suck from yuou the nexttime. I havent talked to my sister for 1 1/2 years because its taken its toll on me and I dont want to deal with it. It gets very stressful and causes drama in the family. I'm sure your sis is like mion , they spend all thier money but splurge on junk but expect you or someone to bail them out.

As far as your mom she will continue to help out your sister even if it means her sacraficing more for herself, losing her car etc....why because its her daughter. My mom dealt with the same thing but sh'e died 11 years ago. My sis had everyone wrapped around her finger because we all felt bad for the kids but now thst they are of age basically other syblings stay away from sis too. It to much. Sad to say even her own kids get tied of dealing with her and the guilt she makes them feel. Mind you she lives in my moms home because we allowed her to for a low rent because of the kids but now refuses to pay the low rent $400 and the property taxes $600 a year she stopped paying us anything.

I say dont feel guilty because it will just get worse and she will expect more and more. Its sad for the kids but you need to worry about your dd. Bringing your sis and her kids into your home will only cause more drama and why should you change your dd's home life. It will only bring negativity because and your dd shouldnt have to deal with it.
Good luck
 
No guilt!!!! You are doing what is right. If someone is always there to bail her out, then she will always need bailed out. If it is tough and she has to figure out what to do maybe she will start to think about ways to solve her own problems. I have seen this played out a lot in my own (extended) family and the place you are in is miserable, but you have to put your husband and daughter first. You work hard for your money and at the end of the day it should be for you to decide how to spend it, by the same token she does not work hard and therefore has no money, so she has made her decision as well. If you do decide to give her the money, who is to say that she will not be in the same position 3 months down the road and need rent money again. :grouphug:
 
Is there a reason sis can't live with mom? I mean, if mom is going to help her anyway and already has a limited budget, it just seems like they could help each other out. They could share rent instead of sis begging off mom every month, food stamps and other assistance could be made to include mom if she's low income (which means there might be more assistance). Mom wouldn't have get a title loan on her car. And, you could/should still be able to help out in the ways that you do.

It might make for a difficult situation for a bit (and some of you may say it's a bad idea to move back in with your parents), but if mom's already helping out sis, it might just be the best option if it's an option.

Just a thought... :thumbsup2
 
The harsh reality is that you did not make the bad decisions that she made to work a low paying job and be a single parent. Neither you nor your mother should be responsible for her choices as an adult. The ones I feel badly for are the children but if you bail her out now then you will be the first she calls next time. Suze Orman would tell you the same thing.
 
Do not dip into your savings to bail her out. Saying no is telling her you love her. I agree with buying the kids gifts of things they need. Why doesn't she move in with your mom. That seems the logical solution. And from what you are saying you really do not have the resources to pay her bills. Why should you sacrifice your families financial well being for someone who does not car about their own?
 
I hope you do not let your sister and her enabler (your mother) guilt you into changing your mind--you are doing the right thing:hug:
 
What are her chances of getting "government housing" or a second job and additional day care vouchers. (Although I think I caught that she might be going to school, too??) It seems like with only 20 hours a week at a fast food joint and two dependents, she should be eligible for more assistance. Also, what about the fathers? Has she gone after them for child support??
It is definitely NOT your place to put your family at financial risk for her. There are other options/avenues that SHE should be persuing, that's what you do when you decide to become and adult and have a family to support.
 
Wow- I think you did the wrong thing. It is family and is $500 really going to change your life if you give it to your sister?
 
You definitely did the right thing!

My roommate in college was always "loaning" her mother money (it's not a loan if you don't get it back!) She eventually realized that if she was going to make ends meet and be financially responsible, she could not keep giving her mother money. Talk about a guilt trip - "I'm your mother, I raised you, I sacrificed everything for you," etc... However, her mother did eventually start calling her again and they now have as healthy a relationship as they can for their situation.

I think your mother will eventually come around - just keep doing the supportive things you are doing without putting your "new" family's finances and future in jeopardy!
 
I don't think evictions happen in five days.
She has more time. (Unless this is not the first time.)

The problem you are facing is not your sister; it's your mother. You are going to watch her slowly kill herself (not literally) trying to take care of your sister.

Would your sister and your mother let you handle all of their money, doling it out as you see fit, in exchange for your one time loan now? Could you or would you act as their "comptroller" or "treasurer"?

You could do such things as force Sis to quit smoking by not giving her money for cigarettes. And help them apply for assistance.

Does Mom own her home? Free and clear? If so you could arrange a reverse mortgage with you as the lender and also very limited monthly "withdrawals". You would set up an interest rate much lower than payday loans or car title loans. And this will guarantee that you get paid back before Mom can give everything to Sis.
 
So....outsiders' opinions....am I a horrible person? We do help her out in many ways, just not monetarily. At least once a month I buy each of her kids an outfit from Target, I just gave her deodorant and pads from my stockpile, just bought the older one a potty chair. We do what we can. My head tells me we did the right thing, but oh my heart still feels guilty.

No you are not a horrible person. In fact if you were you're heart wouldn't feel the guilt.

Whenever my family ask to borrow money, I try (not always successful ;)) to ask myself, how can I help this person long term. If you gave your sister the 500 bucks would she be in the very same predicament in another month.
I'm thinking yes, so what your sister really needs is a plan to pull her out of poverty. It is really difficult because working (even full time) at minimum wage generally is not enough to live on.
How agreeable is your mom and sister to sitting down and discussing the situation. Could mom & sister room together? Is Sister going to school? working fast food joints are a dead end.
Only after that would I think of financial assistance.
 
I wouldn't do it!

We have in the past. Big mistake I think dh brother still owes us 2000.00 and his parents 5000.00. Which makes it worse is they make way more money than we do now. And can't do 25.00 a week or something really makes me :mad:!
 


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