Help me feel better about this "smart" financial decision...

[teacup princess]

I like your money policy......I think I'll make it mine too.

You did the right thing. If you want to help your sister (and your mother) look into assistance programs to help your sister pay her rent this month. I am a landlord and we've received rent assistance from various organizations. Lots of churches in particular usually have some sort program set up. Do some of the preliminary research for your sister yourself, then let her follow through with it. Don't do it all for her, it can be alot of paperwork, and your sister needs to take some responsibility for her own predicament. Then maybe try and help her find a better job than 20 hours at Taco Bell to help her pay rent next month. You'll soon find out if she's willing to help herself or if she's just waiting for a handout from family.

 

[PaulaSue]

I would stik with your head. It sounds like she ruined her $ life, helped with her moms, you SHOLDN"T be next.....

 

[Kay1]

I'm with Rainydayplay. If both you mother and sister are struggling, why maintain two residences? That makes no sense to me.

 

[tinkarooni]

You did the right thing. $500. isn't going to solve your sister's problems. I have a SIL similar to this. Not married had baby #1, got married to a that guy who didn't work, couldn't drive and drank beer all day.....than she had TWO MORE babies with this loser. On my nephew's birthday the guy skipped town for Florida with his internet chick and never looked back. Bad, bad choice in him. SIL at first struggled and MIL was guilt tripping everyone into paying her bills. I was pround of DH who refused. He had plans instead. MIL can't drive and was recently widowed, he talked SIL into moving in with MIL and they help each other. Its not ideal in a lot of ways (MIL is now raising the kids practically) but MIL was terribly lonely by herself too. So 4 years later is has all worked out as well as it could. $$$ is not necessarily the answer. Making hard choices is. It's time for your sister to face the music. Your mother will never see that, she only sees a child struggling and wants to help.....I understand that.

That being said I would be buying food and probably basics, clothes, undies to help the kids out. They are the ones I feel bad for.

 

[MickeyMomOfThree]

Why is she ony working 20 hours a week? I understand that may be all the hours she is getting at Taco Bell, but why not another job working 20 hours there? And what about child support? If the fathers are working she can get child support from them.

When DH and I were young we had a couple times where we had trouble at the end of the month. DH was in the Army, took college classes and was delivering pizzas at night. I was at home with our new baby and at the time couldn't work (medical reasons.) We wern't wasting money, but were young and learning (I was 17 he was 21 when we married.) Anyway, twice we borrowed money from family, once when we hit a deer and needed help paying the deductable and one other time (can't remember now why.) Both times we paid it back but in borrowing I found out that my mom, aunt and uncle had all on many occasions borrowed from my grandparents and none of them ever paid it back! My mom is now a millionaire, my aunt and uncle are both doing quite well too, and they still never have paid back my grandparents. All I am saying is while not everyone will just take (we didn't) many will so while it is hard, I get your policy.

If your sister was trying harder, I'd probably change my opinion, but if she isn't working her hardest to get out of her situation, why should you and your DH. It is sad for the kids, but sounds like they are being taken care of for the most part and you are helping with that. I do wonder are they eating right? Maybe buying some food would be helpful if yo ucan, but I wouldn't give her money to do that, I'd buy food specific to the kids to be sure that it where it is going.

I agree too, she should move in with mom. A stress like her moving in would be a lot for a young couple and family.

Best of luck with your decision and hopefully this is the tough love your sister needs to get back on track.

 

[RadioFanatic]

You are doing the right thing. Over the years, dh and I have loaned his parents about $10,000; and have never seen a dime of it back. They never even mentioned it to us again, even though they promised to pay it back. We now won't loan anymore.

 

[tinker&belle]

Your mom asked if there was a way to pay the rent four days late? Was there a reason for that? Does your sister get paid just four days later.

I don't know the history of your situation, and for lots of situation the not loaning $ rule is a good one, but depending on if you think she will pay you in the four days I think I would do it for a close family member with two children. If you decided to do it maybe you could arrange to pick her up the day she gets her check to cash it as a condition of the loan.

Anyway, there may be more to the story, but just wanted to throw out another idea.

 

[TinkerbelleAbbysMom]

First of all, big hugs b/c I know caring for your sister and more so her children is what motivates you here. The problem is with her situation, its $500 this month and then $600 next month. And more down the road... Like someone else said, your mom is enabling her to continue this way. If money is so tight, why is she still buying her cigarettes? I work with lots of single moms and when they start to talk about their financial stresses one of the first things I do is ask them to look at their budget. I let them tell me where they are spending their money. If they don't list their tobacco expense in that list, I bring it up to them. I always have them first tell me how many they smoke/day. Then I go through, okay 10/day.. that's 3.5 packs/week and 14 pack/month. If you spend $5 (a low ball probably) per pack, that's $70/month!! Many of my mom's smoke more and I can come up with a bigger number which sort of hit's home with them. When your sister wants to know why you can't help her, you explain your budget to her. Show her where your money does go. Then hopefully she will see how you prioritize!! And beg your mom to read the book BOUNDRIES by Dr. Henry Cloud. If you listen to Dave Ramsey he refers lots of people in similar siutations to this book. Good luck and stay confident in your decision. This will help your sister more in the long run! It's called tough love!!! Stay strong!!

 

[minnie1928]

You did the right thing. If you would've loaned/gifted the money, it wouldn't solve the problem long term and it would just be a matter of time (and I'm guessing it wouldn't be long) before sister and/or mom came back looking for more money. They both "made their beds", now they need to grow up and act responsibly. You mom needs to stop enabling her, it's really not helping your sister and certainly not helping your mom.

You made the right choice...

 

[Kriii]

I would always give money to family IF it were an emergency and the family members are hard working and responsible but mabey had a piece of bad luck. A few years ago, dh and I agreed that if dbro's family asked for help after his job loss we would help (they never did - savings and a willingnes to work odd jobs below his skill level kept his family solvent until a new
FT job was found). In this case, I'd say OP is doing the right thing. Ds shows no behavior indicating that she is attempting to better her situation or be responsible.If family stops enabling her, perhaps she'll figure out that she needs to grow up and learn to support her own family.

 

[bevgray]

I have heard so many stories like this. What always puzzles me is, what would folks like your sister do if they had no mother and siblings? When a person is an orphan or only child, he or she does not have the recourse to lean on the family for assistance "just this once".

I was the "problem" child (wasn't really but I'm sure my brothers may have viewed me as such since I was an academic innocent in so many ways). After my father died (I was 18), I inherited Mother. She went to college with me (took classes and everything). She died very suddenly, very unexpectedly when I was recovering from a catastrophic illness. I was still too ill to work on my Ph. D but had returned to my home university to pick up a teaching certificate so I could at least work a few years with the idea of pursuing the degree later on. When Mother died, I had a tiny life insurance policy and a mountain of her debt (there was never a lot of money and my blessed Mommy had no financial sense). One brother was in Hawaii, one was in Australia. I managed to land a teaching job in Georgia but, due to the debt load, I struggled for years. No help was forthcoming from either brother. Thing is, I had to learn how to manage money, had to work two jobs, all the while still not very strong. After years of coping, struggling, I've learned the hard lessons and can stand very much on my own two feet.

Sometimes, the best thing you can do is throw a bucket of cold water in a loved one's face. If my brothers had done the "poor little kid, we'll bail you", I would never have learned or developed the strength to deal with later problems that crop up in every life. You have a tough call to make but your priorities should be all about your husband and child. Family issues ruin more marriages than even financial disputes. If your sister is a student but can't manage to survive financially working part time, perhaps she should lay off a semester or two and work full time in order to get some money ahead. It's not fun to have to stop in the middle of college. I've done it, I know. But the course work will be there later. If she's on financial aid, has she investigated work-study programs at her college? Sometimes those are better than working at a local fast food place in that they work around course schedules. It would also help with any transportation issues she might have since she wouldn't be trying to get from campus to place of work. Most universities also provide free child care for students and employees.

Those who recommend your sister moving in with your mom have a good idea. That way, they can pool resources. Of course, you run the risk that your sister will use your mother (from babysitting to cigarette funds) but that's your mother's call if she want's to help. I would hesitate to get involved in the finances for either woman. You'll get no thanks if you become their comptroller and it has the potential to make things far worse. Since your mother is in bankruptcy, depending on which kind she filed, she may be on a court-ordered allowance which will also create issues.

Best of luck to you and keep in mind that you are not your sister's parent and therefore have no obligation to support her.

 

[MrsPete]

You're absolutely doing the right thing. Keep it up. When I was 28, I wouldn't have been in the position to give even $100 help either!

I'm really just echoing what others have said, but here are some ideas that could help see her through -- but she would have to do them herself:

- Quit smoking. That'll give her the rent money not only this month, but next month too, AND it'll help her health and that of her two babies, saving her money at the doctor's office. Really, I don't see how anyone can afford the cost of smoking, but this is especially true for someone in your sister's position.
- Get some money from these two children's fathers. Their children are about to be homeless, and it's their responsibility.
- Suggest that your sister go to her church for help, or go to Social Services for help.

If your mom and sister try to guilt you into giving them money, tell them that you can't because:
- You're a teacher, and you don't get paid in the summer; thus, you have to watch every penny.
- Your savings is in a CD, which can't be cashed without penalty for 18 more months.
- Your student loan is more of a burden than they understand, and you have to take care of that responsibility first; and when this is done, explain that you're putting aside money for your own daughter's education so that she won't find herself in this same situation.

The one positive here is that your sister seems to be in school, and that's the correct ticket for digging herself out of the hole she's in. I think you're right to help her with outfits for the kids, etc. (Though I'd consider shopping at consignment stores, where for the cost of that one outfit at Target, you could have 3-4 nice outfits.) But I'd never give her money. Adults should support themselves.

 

[MrsPete]

If your sister is a student but can't manage to survive financially working part time, perhaps she should lay off a semester or two and work full time in order to get some money ahead. It's not fun to have to stop in the middle of college. I've done it, I know. But the course work will be there later.

Without knowing details, I think I disagree with this. Things I'd want to know:

- How far along is the sister towards earning a degree? If she has a year to go, then it'd be worthwhile to tough it out, get the degree, and be ready to get a "real job" (not fast food) a year from now. On the other hand, if she's looking at three more years, then limping along in this fashion, begging money from here and there isn't going to be possible. If that's the case, then she really does need to find more income now.
- Is her degree going to be something that'll lead to profitable employment? Some do, some don't. If hers isn't going to help her get a better job, then quitting for a while wouldn't be such a bad thing.
- Does she have student loans, which will "come due" if she quits? If so, then quitting just isn't an option. In a similar vein, I'm tempted to say cut back to half-time, but I suspect that'd cut her financial aid.
- How would taking time off affect her course requirements? I ask because I enrolled in college in 1984, and two years later the college revamped their general degree requirements and made some rather significant changes to my department. Every class had a new number; it was confusing. Those of us who were already enrolled were held to the "old standards", but if we'd quit and come back, we would've had to fulfill all the new program requirements -- that would've meant that some coursework we'd already completed would've become rather worthless. In short, it was nothing I couldn't have done, but it would've added at least a semester (probably a year) to my studies.

And finally, something that's not in the same category as the above practical considerations: When you quit college, it's hard to go back. This is true even under good conditions, and your sister -- with two small children and no help -- isn't in good conditions. After I earned my first degree, I took off about a year and a half; during that time, I was working, was married and bought a house. Then I went back to school. Wow, was it hard to get back into the routine! I was out of the habit of reading difficult material for hours every day, and I had drifted away from my "I'm a student" mentality. I felt like my brain had turned into oatmeal. If I'd had children at home to plan around, it would've been even more difficult.

You'll get no thanks if you become their comptroller and it has the potential to make things far worse . . . Best of luck to you and keep in mind that you are not your sister's parent and therefore have no obligation to support her.

I agree completely. No matter how you add up these numbers, the sister won't have a comfortable number of dollars to spend, and if the OP takes control of the money, it'll be HER FAULT that the sister doesn't have enough. It'd be a thankless job and would only magnify the disagreements within the family.

The OP's mother also has no financial obligation to support her adult daughter.

 

[Cheshire Figment]

What about the two fathers?????

She should be getting child support from both of them. If she is not, she should go to Social Services and have them assist her in getting the child support payments.

Or is she getting it and burning through the money?

 

[sk!mom]

If this was a one time emergency, then I could see stretching your own budget to help your sister.

That isn't the case though. The rent will be due again in only a couple of weeks and she'll be back to ask again. It is very difficult to watch family struggle but your sister is not your responsibility. Sorry to say this but you're probably better off putting distance between yourself and your family.

Why doesn't she receive child support from the two fathers? If her childcare is free, why doesn't she get a fulltime or second part time job?

ETA...I wouldn't offer excuses for why I couldn't give the money. I would just say a simple, "we can't." Excuses just invite rebuttals from them and open the door for them to ask again since your excuse implies that you would if you had it. I've found it better in the long run to simply say no. People who are used to living off the generosity of others are never going to see your excuses as good enough.

 

[LaLinda]

First of all, develop a plan to help your sister.

I suggest that you tell your mother that you have had a change of heart & WILL help your sis. Then sit down with both your mother & sis & ask them if they want your help.

Then tell sis that, if she wants your help, she will have to agree to your plan. The ball is now in her court. Tell her you will help her by setting up a budget which includes her quitting smoking, finding another part-time job, moving in with your mom, if that meets with your mother's agreement.

Your sister is going to have to begin taking part in changing her lifestyle if she wants your help. This way you can at least say that you are "helping" your sister.

Also, for those parents that guilt their children with the "I sacrificed everything for you" line, tell them that you are doing the same for your own children, by sacrificing your everything for your own family & you don't have any money to give to other family members.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[wdwfan16]

I don't post here often, but I've been mainly a lurker for the past few years. We love Disney and just got backv from our last trip three weeks ago! But now I'm in a situation and I really need some outsiders' opinions, and well, this was the first place I thought about finding those. So, here goes...

My sister is a young, single mom with two kids by two different guys. Her oldest is turning 2 this weekend, her youngest is 7 months. She has her hands full for sure. She works at Taco Bell about 20 hours a week and of course gets free daycare from the state as well as $500 a month in food stamps and energy assistance. The only bills that really leaves her with is rent, gas, and her cell phone bill. Of course, she never has any money to pay these bills. Month after month she borrows money from our mom to pay her rent, put gas in her car, buy cigarettes, etc. Our mom is in no position to loan or give her money, as she just filed bankruptcy a little more than a year ago, and is currently living with a broken stove and no refrigerator, but she tries to help her out as much as she can. Our mom was a single mom, too, so I think she sympathizes with her.

Anyway, my sister is unable to pay her rent this month (last month, due July 1) and received a 5-day eviction notice from her landlord. Our mom tried talking the landlord into waiting four additional days for the rent, but no dice. Mom does not have the money to give sister for rent as she does not get paid until next Friday so she asked me for the money. Everybody that knows me and my DH knows that our policy is that we do not lend money unless we can afford for it to be a gift. We are young (28) and are not in a perfect financial situation ourselves. I have a huge student loan (that will be paid off in 5 years, whoohoo!), car payment, rent, and a small amount of credit card debt. We have money in savings, but are certainly not in the position to be able to loan $500 or even $100 without worrying about it. But, this is not what sister sees. She sees us living in a decent house, driving nice cars, and going on vacation so thinks that we have lots of money laying around. We both work full-time at modest jobs (I'm a teacher, he works in the pressroom at our local newspaper) and will probably never be "rich". Our DD(4) is well-taken care of but not "spoiled" by any means.

Anyway, long story short (haha not really...this is getting too long!), mom is mad because I won't loan money to sister or let her move in with us for two months until she gets her financial aid check from school this fall. She says she is going to take out a title loan on her car to give her the money for rent; I don't know what to say about that. I am apparently a horrible person for not loaning her money and said that now she knows my "true colors" and she hopes that I never need anything from her in the future. She also informed me that she will be giving everything to sister when she dies, which I know is just a huge guilt trip. Obviously there's a lot of history here, as well, but I won't get into that.

So....outsiders' opinions....am I a horrible person? We do help her out in many ways, just not monetarily. At least once a month I buy each of her kids an outfit from Target, I just gave her deodorant and pads from my stockpile, just bought the older one a potty chair. We do what we can. My head tells me we did the right thing, but oh my heart still feels guilty.

You are not a horrible person but a person who sees your sister's situation for what it is. I would help her get permanent birth control or help her fill out child support papers but I would not lend her any money.

 

[Duckiedee]

You are not a horrible person... You are a smart and caring person who feels bad that your sister and her kids are in a bad situation and upset that your mother is trasferring her fear for your sister on you.

Your guilt is normal - but unfounded.

Your Mom is acting like a martyr. And she expects the same from you. I feel sad for you that once your mom has squeezed every last penny out of herself to enable your sister that you will then have two people on your doorstep looking for a handout. And then when the kids grow up... they'll know they can clean you out as well.

It super sucks your sister is more willing to keep smoking than provide a roof over her children's heads. How is that your fault? Your mom is feeling more sorry for your sister (and maybe harbouring her own guilt of what she was unable to provide when your sister was younger.) But your Mom needs to let your sister put on her big girl panties at some time. Beyond the money - just the fact YOUR MOM was the one who talked to your sister's landlord pretty much sums it up to me why your sister feels she does not need to take care of herself or her kids... she does not feel resposible for herself.

They get to mother the way they choose in the end - and you get to do your best for your daughter... she is your only true responsiblity at this point in your life. And if you can't afford to give the money, even if you should, then you are putting her welfare at stake. If you or DH were to die tomorrow - she will need that cash it sounds like.

BTW - no point in even bringing up the smoking - I have NEVER seen that work... unless someone sees it themselves - most smokers are too addicted to see it makes money-sense to quit - to them it is a neccessity. (Non-smoker here, but I am close to many smokers and many in bad money situations - not suggesting a connection.)

I'm sorry, but it sounds like this is a deeply imbedded car wreck that you are going to be a witness to for a long time.

I would have one sit down talk with each of them. Ask them if they want advice and tell them what you are willing to do or guide them on... you've gotten some great advice here and then if they ever come to you for their problems of this vain again. You and just say "I've offered what I can are you willing to do that? Because that's all I'm comfortable doing... I love you too much to do something I think will hurt you in the end."

DO NOT take action - guide them to take their own action. And don't advise your Mother on your sister, talk to your sister directly or talk to your Mom directly and don't get sucked in the middle.

BIG HUGS!!!!!

 

[bettymae1121]

I agree with everyone else, the $500 isn't a long term fix.

If you want to help, offer to baby sit for the kids so she can pick up extra shifts or get a second job, offer to sit down and look over her budget and research other financial assistance options (social services? churches?), offer to help her move into a cheaper apartment (or in with you mom), have them over for dinner once a week so that's one less meal she has to pay for...there are lots of ways you can help that won't cost you anything (or very little) but will actually be truely helpful to your sister.

If she refuses, then that's her problem. You offered to help in a way that doesn't put your own family's future at risk and if she doesn't want the help, oh well.

 

[secretpantssam]

you are doing the right thing. Your sister is not learning how to support herself if she just keeps getting handouts. I know it's hard to let someone you love fall on hard times, but she's not doing anything to prevent it from happening over and over again. She needs to grow up and get a job that will give her more hours and learn how to support her children. You are helping her by trying to teach her that she has to work hard are be responsible for her life.