Have we reached the saturation point?

[Dis_Yoda]

I think being on a Disney Message Board and talking about going to Disney more than once in your life can make it seem like to some people you are 'bragging' about money! All hobbies cost money - most people just don't talk about it.

Although - if you want to see someone bragging about spending money - just wait until my expo morning post from Star Wars

I don't see Dopey as that as all. It is an event that some people want to challenge themselves with. Personally, I'll never do it but I'm not equipped to do a Marathon as a Half is still a struggle for me even after my 6th completion. My husband will never be able to do it because of his job and the desire for us to keep legacy at Rebel Challenge. He's lucky he's going to be able to do the Marathon + Rebel this year but its going to be at the sacrifice in length of our Wine & Dine trip I just found out. That's ok. Work comes first - its how we pay for these fun things.

 

[onetoescape]

I love running and I love running with my partner. Disney races for me are event races and they need a draw for you to come to them. I did Dopey this year and I loved it should of done a lot better (Dis_Yoda you would be able to a Disney Marathon). I personally thought Run Disney is an experience which was brilliant however if you do them all the different races is there a draw to come back? Because of this year I will want to do the Dopey properly and my partner wants to do it as well after that I think it will be doubtful. Just speaking for myself I loved the Dopey challenge but at the end of it is just another marathon with a massive fee attached. As someone from the UK to run it I sacrificed more a less a week of my holiday to run it. I kept myself jetlagged so I would be able to run at the time of the morning as there was no point staying up late. So you are paying a good $2000 to run at Disney when you add in you flights, tickets accommodation, race fees etc and for the first week you arent making the most of it seems rather costly. Practicalities would make sense to have it at time in the morning and so I understand it but as others have said here the other events they had before like the night time ones looked like a draw.

it may seem I didnt like the run disney events I did. Atmosphere was brilliant had a real good time. Location was brilliant (bar the run from Magic Kingdom to Animal Kingdom that was hellish and boring). It is a case for me is they would need to do something to make new events more appealing. For me the Disney Marathon is a bucket list event in its current form do once maybe not again. Would a change of route help? Start in the Magic Kingdom and spend more time in the parks? I enjoyed the 5k and 10k so much more than the marathon for this fact you spend so much time in the parks.

I really hope they add or mix up the events a bit more because I want the excuse to go back! Says he who is booking Star Wars for next year!!!!!!!

 

[Violet Parr]

I know about 10 people who have run similar challenges in their life, whether they be ultras, pike's peak, or multi-race challenges. And I know countless people who have run the NYC Marathon. Each is challenging in its own right, and for very different reasons. Each is also pretty darned expensive. But I have never had another runner talk to me about how much money they have spent on a challenge. Some lament the amount of money that they have spent on shoes over the course of a training year, but not the events themselves. That almost never comes up in conversation.

I also know many runners who talk endlessly about the challenges for which they have signed up and are in training. I don't mind hearing it as another runner, but it is kinda funny watching the lights go out in a non-runner's eyes after these folks launch into this kind of talk.

Agreed. If I wanted to show off how much money I can spend, there are a BILLION ways to do it at WDW that don't involve training for a year to run 48.6 miles.

VP

 

[Greatfalls]

All of the Orlando races are the week after big weekends: Marathon after Christmas/New Year's, Princess after Presidents' Day, Dark Side after Easter, and Wine & Dine after Halloween. Before the races, these were probably among the slowest weekends of the year, so anything they get -- even if not sellouts -- are gravy. It would have to take a big drop off in participation before they eliminate any races.

 

[DVCFan1994]

This was a very interesting thread to read. I am really on the fence as to what to register for for Marathon weekend 2018, and so the whole "will it sell out fast" question is something I think of often. I really want to do Dopey, just afraid to commit to it when I've been out for a month. But I have gotten in a few runs in the last week, so I am getting there. Couple of weeks to decide.

I think the saturation argument is a tough one. I know lots of people who want to do an rD race, but haven't gotten around to it because it isn't a priority, more of "I'd love to do it when I find the time (or money) situation". Lots of people due to the travel involved need to turn it into a vacation, so it requires more time, expense and wrapping your head around a vacation based on a running event instead of relaxing or whatever else they usually do. That might include convincing non running family members to use vacation funds on that.

I think the lack of a deferral option is tough for some people, race insurance would help, but no evidence of that yet.

I have done the Glass Slipper three times, and I myself feel that the experience of the races declined a bit each year for me. Honestly, I am not sure if it was the passage of time (1st timer vs 3rd timer) or the fact there was less entertainment etc. on course for time 2 and especially #3. I do think the prices are a bit crazy particularly when you think of the cost of the trip overall, but even if they don't sell out, they are still well attended, so no need to slow the fee inflation in Disney's eyes. However, for context, I am looking for a fall full marathon, and my current plan is a race with some good reviews, nice scenery and very sufficient on course support - cost - $65. And no, there are no digits missing there.

I do want to speak up for the "Red headed step-child" Avengers race, which I do often on these boards. I did get that impression when I did the race as well, that its not as cherished as other weekends. Also, the difference between the princess expo frenzy and the Avengers is huge, I agree. But, it was my favorite race weekend of all. Loved every second!

 

[Violet Parr]

I still can't believe nothing for W&D has sold out. Not even the 5K. All of the explanations here make total sense to me, but I'm still really surprised.

VP

 

[rteetz]

All of the Orlando races are the week after big weekends: Marathon after Christmas/New Year's, Princess after Presidents' Day, Dark Side after Easter, and Wine & Dine after Halloween. Before the races, these were probably among the slowest weekends of the year, so anything they get -- even if not sellouts -- are gravy. It would have to take a big drop off in participation before they eliminate any races.

That was the whole reason they started these races. They wanted to get people to WDW and DL during down times.

 

[rteetz]

I still can't believe nothing for W&D has sold out. Not even the 5K. All of the explanations here make total sense to me, but I'm still really surprised.

VP

Not even the 5K does surprise me a bit but not unexpected.

 

[CP3uhoh]

I'd just add the Houston full was $150 and they don't offer deferrals either. Well, they do but you have to pay the full price again and it's not hard to get in to. I know because I just paid for sitting on my couch. Paying $50 extra for Disney Magic seems fine by me but the local ones usually stay open much closer thereby giving folks a better chance to asses their training before committing.

I'm contemplating Dopey next year but I can't possibly commit to that in February of this year with my knee/leg the way it is now.


The lack of novelty for many I'm sure has kept away more repeats. No night race, etc....Maybe running through Pandora and Star Wars Land at a later date will be a big draw.

 

[DOOM1001]

The lack of novelty for many I'm sure has kept away more repeats. No night race, etc....Maybe running through Pandora and Star Wars Land at a later date will be a big draw.

The whole situation with the construction at DHS has not helped the Run Disney races,in a few years when they can get races to run through Pandora,Star Wars and Toy Story land and if they add a Halloween race to the lineup with at least two night races these races will easily sell out,with that said I don't think we'll ever see the madness of races selling out in an hour like Wine and Dine and the Dopey challenge did a few years ago.I mentioned this in another post but right now the fastest to sell out half or full marathon in Florida is the Space Coast half marathon.They're in the last year of a 5 year challenge where you get an extra challenge medal for doing the half or full 3 or all 5 years.The half last year sold out ridiculously fast and when registration opens Feb.15th I expect it to go even faster.Last year I wanted to do the half but I could only get into the slower to sell out full.

 

[rteetz]

The whole situation with the construction at DHS has not helped the Run Disney races,in a few years when they can get races to run through Pandora,Star Wars and Toy Story land and if they add a Halloween race to the lineup with at least two night races these races will easily sell out,with that said I don't think we'll ever see the madness of races selling out in an hour like Wine and Dine and the Dopey challenge did a few years ago.I mentioned this in another post but right now the fastest to sell out half or full marathon in Florida is the Space Coast half marathon.They're in the last year of a 5 year challenge where you get an extra challenge medal for doing the half or full 3 or all 5 years.The half last year sold out ridiculously fast and when registration opens Feb.15th I expect it to go even faster.Last year I wanted to do the half but I could only get into the slower to sell out full.

I don't think we will ever see a night race at WDW again. Well maybe not ever but for a very long time. The logitistics seem to be the biggest reason for the change. Running through Pandora is interesting but I'm not sure it's a draw. We have at least 2 years before we are running through Star Wars land as well. Who knows if Disney would even allow running through that portion of the park when it's open because it's going to be incredibly popular much like Harry Potter at universal.

 

[DOOM1001]

I don't think we will ever see a night race at WDW again. Well maybe not ever but for a very long time. The logitistics seem to be the biggest reason for the change. Running through Pandora is interesting but I'm not sure it's a draw. We have at least 2 years before we are running through Star Wars land as well. Who knows if Disney would even allow running through that portion of the park when it's open because it's going to be incredibly popular much like Harry Potter at universal.

I definitely don't expect a night race in the near future but I really wish RunDisney realizes a lot of runners really enjoyed them and sooner or later one does happen.I know if it were up to me every race except marathon weekend and princess weekend would be night races,Wine and Dine,Dark side and a Halloween/ToT race,they all make sense to be run at night.Since moving near Disney I pay attention to park closing times and believe me the parks seem to close earlier more often than they used to,it just seems like scheduling a 10pm start time is no more challenging than a morning race.Plus with these after race parties they can charge the runners families $50+ bucks a head to attend the party.

 

[rteetz]

I definitely don't expect a night race in the near future but I really wish RunDisney realizes a lot of runners really enjoyed them and sooner or later one does happen.I know if it were up to me every race except marathon weekend and princess weekend would be night races,Wine and Dine,Dark side and a Halloween/ToT race,they all make sense to be run at night.Since moving near Disney I pay attention to park closing times and believe me the parks seem to close earlier more often than they used to,it just seems like scheduling a 10pm start time is no more challenging than a morning race.Plus with these after race parties they can charge the runners families $50+ bucks a head to attend the party.

I don't feel park hours have much to do with this. Parks closing earlier are park ops and look to be cost cutting. Disney is trying to sell hard ticket events on the early close nights. Closing the parks early for a race and $50 a person after party isn't as good as no race and hard ticket events that cost $129.

 

[Anisum]

Perhaps it has more to do with safety? Without the Osborne lights DHS isn't nearly as well lit. It's one thing to have people walking through the parks in the dark, but it's another to have them running. I would have thought the same of AK but I know they held Expedition Everest at night.

 

[cavepig]

know if it were up to me every race except marathon weekend and princess weekend would be night races,Wine and Dine,Dark side and a Halloween/ToT race,they all make sense to be run at night.S

I hope not, my family is not night runners. We did do Expedition Everest and were going to do Wine & Dine just for a different theme but then it changed to morning and I was very very happy. I've heard a lot of people actually complain about night racing and getting sick/tired more than morning racers, even just at Wine & Dine last November I was talking with someone who got sick running at night & hated it since it wasn't normal for her so didn't do it again until she saw it change to day. Or people complained that all they did was sit around all day waiting for the race as not to expend energy so it was a waste of a day. I think morning racing has a broader audience than night so one night race, but not almost all of them. Also, even if a park closes at 9 it takes an hour more to clear people out so I do agree that logistically it's easier to have the races in the morning.


Wine & Dine is still getting people registering on a daily basis from posts here and on facebook groups, just like Darkside. I see new people registering daily with posts.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I don't feel park hours have much to do with this. Parks closing earlier are park ops and look to be cost cutting. Disney is trying to sell hard ticket events on the early close nights. Closing the parks early for a race and $50 a person after party isn't as good as no race and hard ticket events that cost $129.

For an established race like W&D they lose more if patronage drops as low as I think that it might. Why go to WDW that week and deal with those crowds for a morning race with no real benefits right before the holidays? IMO, that race will die as a morning race.

 

[cavepig]

Perhaps it has more to do with safety? Without the Osborne lights DHS isn't nearly as well lit. It's one thing to have people walking through the parks in the dark, but it's another to have them running. I would have thought the same of AK but I know they held Expedition Everest at night.

I don't think it's safety as a lot of the other races are run in the dark in the early morning hours. AK is not well lit at all and I ran all the 5k in November in the dark as well as all the half portion during AK in the dark.

For an established race like W&D they lose more if patronage drops as low as I think that it might. Why go to WDW that week and deal with those crowds for a morning race with no real benefits right before the holidays? IMO, that race will die as a morning race.

I didn't find it to be that crowded last November during Wine & Dine as long you avoided the festival during weekends. Going that week gives you the food & wine festival so that's the benefit of going then.

Without Osborne Lights as the big draw of running at night, what would be the new big thing to make me want to run at midnight? Is it just because it's dark that people like running then?

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I didn't find it to be that crowded last November during Wine & Dine as long you avoided the festival during weekends. Going that week gives you the food & wine festival so that's the benefit of going then.

As with all of the rD races, a lot of the W&D racers are just there for the weekend.

 

[Anisum]

I don't think it's safety as a lot of the other races are run in the dark in the early morning hours. AK is not well lit at all and I ran all the 5k in November in the dark as well as all the half portion during AK in the dark.

True. I always forget about that.

 

[crewmatt]

So the question is. Have we reached saturation point with runDisney? Are prices the issue? Have quality of races decreased? Is it something else?

What could runDisney do to improve their races? Can they reverse this trend?

OK so I'm late to the game so sorry if these points have repeated themselves. I don't think the prices are particularly an issue - they're pricey - but the whole vacation is pricey making the race not a huge portion of it.

I think what we're seeing is a few things all finally coming together - it truly feels like runDisney is not being run by the people who run runDisney events - they really should impose that all runDisney employees run 2 races a year - and have to go through the whole process as if they were not runDisney employees. And that they're not listening to us. The races are almost too industrialized - the weekends aren't different and unique anymore - so why should I do 4 of them a year? And the core group of runners who drove runDisney's popularity via word of mouth in the early days before it was even called runDisney don't feel very valued or excited so more and more of that core group I see or hear about them missing races, or being bored with the experience. It feels that disney would rather have the new customer then the repeat customer (but with the recent email about early registration for marathon weekend I'm hoping thats changing).

1) The main reason Wine and Dine - arguably their most popular race - and one of the most popular in the world - didn't sell out in under an hour like it has every year since it started is that they ruined Wine and Dine for all intents and purposes with the changes they made. Wine and Dine used to have a "grown up fun at disney" kind of experience and atmosphere. The course used to be awesome, its now basically awful. The night race made it very unique, the race served as a natural throttle for the party capacity with runners finishing spread out - and then because you just ran a half marathon, most would leave after a couple hours giving the faster runners an empty early park, and the slower runners an empty later park. The party was more crowded then Epcot was any of the days I was there, basically making it not worth paying for the add on - they WAY oversold the party this year with the addition of the 10k. It was also shorter time span and started earlier.

Now it feels the exact same as all of the other race weekends with the exact same cookie cutter behavior. Wake up, listen to cheesy talk (at least its not scripted any longer), run race. Go about my day. Maybe see my friends later.

2) The timing of the race is during NYC marathon, which also attracts a lot of runners who might not be willing to sign up for Wine and Dine and potentially miss their chance at a NYC entry.

3) All of the race weekends really feel the same. They used to feel quite different. But now its almost too industrial. Marathon weekend is different because of the 4 races, but the others really all feel the same.

Things runDisney should do is bring back the uniqueness. Focus on what your repeat customers would want - as that will drive the longevity of runDisney races and provide that word of mouth groundswell that is now even more important in the days of social media. Every race doesn't need a 5k, 10k, and half marathon if it doesnt fit the theme or organization of the weekend - I loved doing the 5k in the morning and half at night.

Come up with unique and interesting concepts - not just changing the character that is titling the race. Bring back the night race for wine and dine and the adult feel. Make princess as amazingly royal and girl power as you can. Make marathon weekend the largest running festival in the world and really stress a big downtown disney event or something to bring people together. Bring back something like expedition everest. Try a triathlon.

They should also try to do some kind of loyalty program. Lots of great ways to do this. You've run 20 rundisney races, here's guaranteed entries to future races. Or early entry like they did for marathon weekend - that single email made me finally think runDisney was listening. Why not have ranks - every 10 you do you get some kind of level up and a couple interesting perks - maybe a different lanyard, or whatever - doesnt have to be expensive, but its nice to be thought of.