Have we reached the saturation point?

[rteetz]

FWIW, they did not do that this year. They seemed t be very careful not to say things like, who is "only" running whatever the race was on a particular morning. I think that they heard the complaints and are trying to improve on that front.

I agree here. They did the usual who is running their first 5K? Who is running Dopey? Who is doing this... stuff like that.

 

[camaker]

Ever since the introduction of Dopey, I become very cross when rD makes a big stink about Dopey while basically belittling the other races (only the 5K? Only the 10k? etc). I mean give me a break. As you said, every race is an accomplishment in and of itself. For some people a 5K is a walk in the park (ha ha see what I did there?! ) while for others it may be the only realistic distance they can do.

Is rD really belittling the other races or are we runners doing it to ourselves? I felt that way doing Goofy in 2016, but in retrospect I think some or most of it is on me feeling like I could (or should) be doing more. I would be interested in hearing how people think rD should approach the situation. They have a couple of competing goals here:

1. Celebrate and energize Goofy and Dopey participants. The folks that have bought into the top tier challenges at WDWMW.
2. Celebrate and energize participants of the individual races.

I honestly think that they are trying to accomplish #2 with the "who's just running the [insert race here]" verbiage. They're trying to give the individual race participants a chance to cheer for and energize themselves on their own merit without the Goofy/Dopey folks who just had their own cheer. If you just ask "who's running the [current race]?" everyone cheers. I can see where the belittling interpretation has been made, and I've felt it myself, but I don't think it's intentional. At the same time, you do want to make your top tier Goofy/Dopey challenge runners feel special because they are doing something special. At some point it becomes on us as individuals not to take celebration of someone else going above and beyond as a belittlement of our achievement. Or to take it as motivation to work towards that level of accomplishment ourselves.

 

[WhereInFlorida]

With the cold weather I purposefully left the hotel and walked to the corral later than I have in the past. Not having to listen to the dreadful banter for as long was definitely a positive this year.

 

[Anisum]

Is rD really belittling the other races or are we runners doing it to ourselves?

I definitely felt it is more of runners doing it to themselves. For me, if I'm going down there I feel like I'm missing an opportunity if I don't do all of the races available to me since I don't go to Disney that often. Plus, the merch. I don't need the merch but I want it and while I don't buy much (pins, magnets, a cup/mug/glass, and a headband) I do like that I can choose between challenge merch and regular merch. I generally am running the challenges so it's hard for me to say if I'd feel belittled by "Who's just completing today's race" but I feel like there are ways they could stop people from feeling that way. Perhaps after that say "Those are the smart ones." or something to indicate that those doing the challenge are a little crazy because we usually are.

 

[ZellyB]

I think the runners do a lot of the belittling in their own heads. I know I'm guilty of that. And, I agree that this year there seemed to be less of the Dopey! Dopey! Dopey! talk. I also think some of it is just because we are in those darn corrals so long and they feel obligated to feel the dead air space, so they tend to get really repetitive in what they are saying, so when you hear it over and over it feels more like they are over-emphasizing it when I really think they are just struggling to find something to talk about.

I swear this year they were a broken record about being sure you didn't carry your mylar wraps across the start line because it could interfere with the timing chip. They must have said that 20 times.

 

[bumbershoot]

Is rD really belittling the other races or are we runners doing it to ourselves?

I think it's been both. I also think they are doing better than before.

After 2014 marathon weekend I actually wrote into them to complain. I don't think I was the only one because they haven't been as bad since (that I've noticed). For that one it was "only" and "just" but not said in a tone that indicated they were simply being clear about what people were doing. And they talked up the challenges hugely.

Now it is huge that people go for the challenges. But it's also huge that people do one.

I can say "oh gosh I'm only doing the half" about myself, and then laugh and say "only with rundisney can you put 'only' before 13+ miles!" But another person can't say "you're only doing the half?" because it simply comes across as rude.

They haven't been as awful about it from what I've noticed since that one.


Also they have merchandise that says for example "Star Wars half marathon weekend", which is a lot more inclusive than just "Star Wars half marathon". Of course they do it for money, not to be inclusive, but it accomplishes both.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

When I participate in other races that offer the half and full at the same time, I find that everyone talks in the same way - "I am only doing the half" - when talking among themselves. This is not specific to rD. It happens everywhere that there are multiple race options available as a part of the same event. Though I agree that it is generally just the runners, not the organizers, using the word "only".

 

[hotblooded]

It is just an overall feeling I get. Hard to put into words.

I get that feeling, too. I see the value in focusing on one event, and it's often a more realistic goal for Run Disney participants. To me, the Dopey Challenge isn't really a show of athleticism, but rather "look at how much money I've spent to conservatively trudge through three events before trying to beat the bus at the marathon!" Not too many can afford to spend $550+ on four days of photo ops, and a smaller percentage of runners than people will admit are fully trained or uninjured upon attempting multi-race events. People who would normally run one race are swept up with the excitement/status/FOMO and sign up for ALL THE EVENTS. Disney events are about fun, but marathon weekend is so much about "being seen" now that running as a sport falls by the wayside.

Obviously, there are exceptions. I know that there are a lot of people on this board who work very hard. I'm a serially undertrained runner myself, and this is just what I've observed.

 

[bumbershoot]

When I participate in other races that offer the half and full at the same time, I find that everyone talks in the same way - "I am only doing the half" - when talking among themselves. This is not specific to rD. It happens everywhere that there are multiple race options available as a part of the same event. Though I agree that it is generally just the runners, not the organizers, using the word "only".

Sure. It's OK to say it about yourself. It's when the other people say it that it can feel not OK.

When I do the Rock'nRoll events in Vancouver the start people managed to keep things positive for people doing "just" one event, so it can be done. Or I'm just ridiculously prejudiced *towards* Canadians.

marathon weekend is so much about "being seen" now that running as a sport falls by the wayside.

Who are they being seen by?

Who cares if other people don't run?

Has that ever mattered to anyone? My mom had us out jogging in...quick math...I was 10 so it was '79. Didn't matter if no one was doing it or others were doing it. Jogging is actually THE exercise that keeps me and my brother trim, and it was for my mom too (until she found she had no cartilage in her knees and had to switch to walking, and she was never as thin as she wanted to be after having to do that), and it was great that she got us out to do that (wish I'd been able to tell her that). If it was when Fixx had made it popular I'm not sure; there was definitely no one else out there with us LOL.

 

[Mimsy Borogove]

FWIW, they did not do that this year. They seemed t be very careful not to say things like, who is "only" running whatever the race was on a particular morning. I think that they heard the complaints and are trying to improve on that front.

I agree here. They did the usual who is running their first 5K? Who is running Dopey? Who is doing this... stuff like that.

They did do it at Light Side the following week, but Carissa was in the lead, so...

 

[Anisum]

I get that feeling, too. I see the value in focusing on one event, and it's often a more realistic goal for Run Disney participants. To me, the Dopey Challenge isn't really a show of athleticism, but rather "look at how much money I've spent to conservatively trudge through three events before trying to beat the bus at the marathon!" Not too many can afford to spend $550+ on four days of photo ops, and a smaller percentage of runners than people will admit are fully trained or uninjured upon attempting multi-race events. People who would normally run one race are swept up with the excitement/status/FOMO and sign up for ALL THE EVENTS. Disney events are about fun, but marathon weekend is so much about "being seen" now that running as a sport falls by the wayside.

Obviously, there are exceptions. I know that there are a lot of people on this board who work very hard. I'm a serially undertrained runner myself, and this is just what I've observed.

I mean, I see what you're saying and I don't doubt that people do this but I do think the majority of people don't do it for those reasons. For me, I would like to do Dopey because I think it's such an accomplishment (not that just one race isn't) and I want that accomplishment. It motivates me to train harder, run more and improve. Would I normally only do one race? Yes, locally at least I would but that's more because back to back races are rarely offered and even when they are I don't want to spend the time to drive the hour each way, each day to do both during a single weekend. At Disney I'm on vacation doing what I enjoy while trying running time as I can in the runDisney environment.

 

[FFigawi]

To me, the Dopey Challenge isn't really a show of athleticism, but rather "look at how much money I've spent to conservatively trudge through three events before trying to beat the bus at the marathon!"

I'm sad you have such a depressing view of the running community. I don't know anyone who enters Dopey as a way of getting people to look at them for being able to spend money. True, I don't know all 7000 Dopey runners, but I'd wager very very few of them do it for the reason you ascribe to us above.

 

[Sleepless Knight]

This has been an interesting discussion. I'm not convinced that runDisney has reached a saturation point yet. Yes, there were days when events would sell out in days if not hours. However, since those days, they have doubled the number of race weekends offered in Anaheim and added another race weekend to Orlando. Inaugural race weekends have sold out insanely fast (Inaugural Avengers, Star Wars 1/2 Disneyland), but the subsequent years have not sold out immediately. This is not a bad thing for anyone. In the immediate sellout days, you had a lot fewer options if you wanted to try for the Coast to Coast or just wanted to participate in a runDisney event. Now, you have 4 1/2 marathon distance events offered on both coasts not to mention marathon weekend at WDW.

Case in point: In 2011, my little sister ran Disneyland 1/2 with me. She was going to sign up with a friend to run TinkerBell except it was sold out. This past October, she signed up to run last weekend's Star Wars 1/2 with me even though the race had been on sale for months. She only missed out on the Rebel Challenge which she was considering running, but not completely sure about. According to the announcers last weekend, Star Wars 10K had 13,000 runners and the 1/2 had 16,000 runners. Those do not sound like numbers that runDisney is at all concerned about. In fact, Star Wars had a lot more corrals than ever before. So even if the race isn't selling out, those are probably still numbers that help especially with the sheer volume of runners inside the parks that weekend wearing shirts, medals, etc.

I understand why some runners have chosen not to continue running Tinker Bell because it moved to Mother's Day weekend, but I also understand why Disney chose to move Tinker Bell to that weekend instead of keeping Tink in January and moving Star Wars to Mother's Day.

As for Avengers, it's a little bit of a different animal. Disney bought Marvel back in 2009. And even then it would be a few more years before Marvel characters even made an appearance on Disney owned property (Avengers monorail wrap in 2012 maybe or Thor meet and greet in 2013?). Furthermore, Star Wars has been a part of Disneyland for just over 30 years now since Star Tours opened in 1987. Star Wars was a part of Disney with theme park rides, stage shows, Star Wars Weekends, Disney/Star Wars mashup merchandise, character appearances in the parks long before Disney actually bought Lucasfilm in 2012.

I also wonder if Star Wars essentially pulls runners away from Avengers. At least speaking for myself, I could have registered for the Inaugural Avengers. But I had heard rumors of Star Wars coming. I already knew that I could only go for one race registration that year and decided that a Star Wars rumor was better than a guaranteed Avengers. I also read complaints from many runners who would have skipped Avengers if they had known Star Wars was coming.

How many of us are in a similar position? Because of lodging, travel, and ticket costs, we have to choose one or maybe two race weekends. In that situation, we either choose our favorite theme (Star Wars for me) or the weekend that best works with our life schedule including family times, professional responsibilities, etc. I don't think runDisney or the parks on both coasts are too concerned about those numbers right now. If all races start to see Avengers style numbers, then they're seeing a substantial decline and may indeed have a problem on their hands. But for now, I think it's much more a case of supply and demand are relatively balanced right now, which is good for everyone. I've talked to a few people that would have signed up for a race but learned about it days after it went on sale and thus days after it sold out. Now runners don't have to sign up immediately and runDisney has more inventory available.

 

[Lola_Stark42]

I am concerned with all the talk about Avengers weekend. I still remember when I found out about it, I was in Disney during Princess weekend, and I ran around Downtown Disney flailing with excitement. I decided then and there that was the race I wanted to do in Disneyland every year for as long as I could get there. I just need it to get to the 5th anniversary so I can be a legacy runner, and then they can change it to whatever they want. I mean I would love to run Tinkerbell or the Disneyland half again, but for me Avengers weekend is exciting and fun and I've had some great memories from the last three years (Captain America anyone?).

That being said- as far as a saturation point- it's hard to say. When I first started with RunDisney the races sold out pretty quickly. I did Princess as my first RunDisney race, and I recall it selling out. I also did the inaugural Glass Slipper challenge weeeknd, which sold out. The year I ran Tinkerbell I did so through a charity because it sold out. Now seeing races open up weeks before and more recently the same weeeknd as said race is weird. It's like did they count and see they still have x number of spots leftover? Are they trying to hit some arbitrary number for attendance and bookkeeping purposes? It's a tough call to whether interest is waning or maybe people only wanted to run one once or it's just too expensive or any number of variables. I can say that doing a RunDisney event is more exciting than doing local events, even if it's more expensive to do so. Because not only do I get to run while I'm there, but I get a vacation out of it at the same time, and it just feels like more fun than running a local race and then I go home.

 

[BuckeyeBama]

I'm sad you have such a depressing view of the running community. I don't know anyone who enters Dopey as a way of getting people to look at them for being able to spend money. True, I don't know all 7000 Dopey runners, but I'd wager very very few of them do it for the reason you ascribe to us above.

I know about 10 people who have run similar challenges in their life, whether they be ultras, pike's peak, or multi-race challenges. And I know countless people who have run the NYC Marathon. Each is challenging in its own right, and for very different reasons. Each is also pretty darned expensive. But I have never had another runner talk to me about how much money they have spent on a challenge. Some lament the amount of money that they have spent on shoes over the course of a training year, but not the events themselves. That almost never comes up in conversation.

I also know many runners who talk endlessly about the challenges for which they have signed up and are in training. I don't mind hearing it as another runner, but it is kinda funny watching the lights go out in a non-runner's eyes after these folks launch into this kind of talk.

 

[Ariel484]

To me, the Dopey Challenge isn't really a show of athleticism, but rather "look at how much money I've spent to conservatively trudge through three events before trying to beat the bus at the marathon!"

This is...strange.

I've done Dopey twice and never once has it crossed my mind that "OMG now everyone will be so impressed by the money I have spent!" And it sure as hell felt like an athletic challenge to me - you do know how many miles are involved, right?

 

[croach]

This is...strange.

I've done Dopey twice and never once has it crossed my mind that "OMG now everyone will be so impressed by the money I have spent!" And it sure as hell felt like an athletic challenge to me - you do know how many miles are involved, right?

I can think of a lot easier ways to get that "look at me" thing then running 48.6 miles.

 

[Ariel484]

I can think of a lot easier ways to get that "look at me" thing then running 48.6 miles.

And cheaper!

 

[Sleepless Knight]

I'm sad you have such a depressing view of the running community. I don't know anyone who enters Dopey as a way of getting people to look at them for being able to spend money. True, I don't know all 7000 Dopey runners, but I'd wager very very few of them do it for the reason you ascribe to us above.

The Dopey runners I've either interacted with here on the message boards or actually met in the parks have been many things, but pounding their chests about the money they spent to run Dopey is not even close to one of them. I met some ladies after the Star Wars 1/2 who ran Dopey and the Rebel Challenge. They were very nice and never once boasted about it. The runners I interact with here who run Dopey have been extremely encouraging of all runners they interact with regardless of speed, experience, et all.

I am concerned with all the talk about Avengers weekend. I still remember when I found out about it, I was in Disney during Princess weekend, and I ran around Downtown Disney flailing with excitement. I decided then and there that was the race I wanted to do in Disneyland every year for as long as I could get there. I just need it to get to the 5th anniversary so I can be a legacy runner, and then they can change it to whatever they want. I mean I would love to run Tinkerbell or the Disneyland half again, but for me Avengers weekend is exciting and fun and I've had some great memories from the last three years (Captain America anyone?).

Granted this is my opinion, but I don't think you need to be too concerned about the future of Avengers weekend just yet. I don't think I've heard a single rumor about Avengers getting a theme change. I've seen speculation from runners, but that's very different than actual rumors. Speculation focuses on Avengers because it's the race with the lowest registration numbers, but also keep in mind that I've read speculation that Dark Side is getting a theme change too based on the fact that they already have Star Wars race weekend at Disneyland. Avengers fills a niche in the Disneyland runDisney market and may be bolstered by the fact that its Infinity Gauntlet Challenge medal keeps building up to a big 5th anniversary challenge medal that ties directly in to the next two Avengers team up films.

 

[lahobbs4]

Not going to lie, running the full in January and "only" signing up for the 5K and 10K at Wine and Dine made me feel a little... under accomplished? A bit of a slacker? But I know 100% that those thoughts are strictly coming from my own brain and they are a little ridiculous. And, I know my limits

That being said, I will most likely NEVER do a challenge during any rD race but I encourage my husband to. He has been running for 10+ years and has a natural ability to do it well. I know he is always trying to push himself in a new way, and especially in a way that his friends have not! So, for this reason, we will participate in rD until we have done them all and then reevaluate. We are new to the rD world and are enthusiastic about any race we could possibly attend!

I'm going to be running in my favorite place on earth! What could be bad about that?!