"Hate Speech" or the Truth?

[Alicnwondrln]

Posting things like this is just designed to stir up trouble... and then you get upset when folks don't agree with you.

Personally I find websites like the one that was linked to by the OP offensive. Hate mongering is not a good way to live and doesn't strike me as very Christian.

ITA!!!

 

[CarolA]

I don't get "upset" when "folks" don't agree with me. I consider the source. I certainly think that Brigitte Gabrielle's experience of growing up in Lebanon, having to live on grass and search for water due to the persecution she felt from Islamic extremists as a Christian Lebanese may shed some light on the nature of the enemy. It might be useful for you to consider another point of view.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't a particularly good way to live either. Didn't we learn that lesson on 9/11?

And being hateful is not the way I want to live my life... What would you like me to do with this "point of view" Yes, I feel sorry for her. No I am not going to take violent action!

Reading just a little on that web site made me sad. I feel bad that some Americans think the way to protect themselves is to stir up fear and hate... I guess they feel safer, but in truth we are all part of the world and we need to learn to live with each other not fighting each other.

 

[ThAnswr]

I don't get "upset" when "folks" don't agree with me. I consider the source. I certainly think that Brigitte Gabrielle's experience of growing up in Lebanon, having to live on grass and search for water due to the persecution she felt from Islamic extremists as a Christian Lebanese may shed some light on the nature of the enemy. It might be useful for you to consider another point of view.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't a particularly good way to live either. Didn't we learn that lesson on 9/11?

Sticking one's head up one's *** by claiming the "War on Terror" is uncoventional, and then using the WWII play book to fight it, is the lesson that seems to have been learned.

Btw, if you want to see religious oppression, you need look no further than Bush's favorite handholders in Saudi Arabia.

 

[DawnCt1]

Sticking one's head up one's *** by claiming the "War on Terror" is uncoventional, and then using the WWII play book to fight it, is the lesson that seems to have been learned.

Btw, if you want to see religious oppression, you need look no further than Bush's favorite handholders in Saudi Arabia.

There is no doubt that Saudi Arabia wrote the book on religious oppression but the fact remains, we have to do business with them if we are going to pursue a policy of reform and have access to the air space. Holding an old man's hand, who is in failing health, does not connote "best friends". It's call courtesy and diplomacy. Something one must engage in as part of the world community.

 

[DawnCt1]

And being hateful is not the way I want to live my life... What would you like me to do with this "point of view" Yes, I feel sorry for her. No I am not going to take violent action!

.

Consider it. I don't think any would suggest you take up "violent action". But its important to understand the enemy we are against before you rend your clothing and engage in self flagellation over Gitmo. Carol, they are really, really bad guys. They don't like you either, despite your desire to try and understand why the "hate us". They hate us because they do.

 

[mickeyfan2]

This is a great and informative article. I also liked the article by Dr. Walid Phares. I work with a Arab who was born Lebanon and most of his family is still there. He has the same feelings about the terrorists that I do. His home was bomb when he was about 12. Everything that she says could have come out of his mouth too. By the way he is a muslim.

 

[CarolA]

Consider it. I don't think any would suggest you take up "violent action". But its important to understand the enemy we are against before you rend your clothing and engage in self flagellation over Gitmo. Carol, they are really, really bad guys. They don't like you either, despite your desire to try and understand why the "hate us". They hate us because they do.

I am outtta here... this is scary... Two wrongs have never made a right in my world and an attitude of hate only gets hate back.

BYE!

 

[Holly]

They don't like you either, despite your desire to try and understand why the "hate us". They hate us because they do.

They hate us because they do? Were they born that way? Or perhaps they just awoke one morning and decided that they hated America out of sheer boredom?

 

[DawnCt1]

And being hateful is not the way I want to live my life... What would you like me to do with this "point of view" Yes, I feel sorry for her. No I am not going to take violent action!

.

Consider her opinion. I don't think anyone would suggest that you "take up violent action". But its important for you to understand who the enemy is before you rend your clothing and engage in self flagellation over allegations at Gitmo. Carol, they are really, really bad guys. They don't like you either despite your efforts to want to "undestand why they hate us". They hate us because they do.

 

[DawnCt1]

They hate us because they do? Were they born that way? Or perhaps they just awoke one morning and decided that they hated America out of sheer boredom?

They have lived under an oppressive government/governments all of their lives. There has been no freedoms or democracy in the middle east. To qwell rebellion their governments have allowed, funded, supported madrasas to fuel radical fundamentalism. As long as that hatred could be focused on the Jews, the Christians, the West, etc it kept the focus off of their own repressive regimes. They aren't "born" that way but those of the Wajabi sect are indoctrinated that way from birth. There are successful, democratic Muslim countries (Turkey) who don't export terrorism because they give their citizens a chance at freedom. The Saudi citizens barely work. They import muslims from other repressive countries to do the menial duties. They find each other and fan the flames. You need to be realistic about the what we are actually up against.

 

[DawnCt1]

I am outtta here... this is scary... Two wrongs have never made a right in my world and an attitude of hate only gets hate back.

BYE!

Carol it is scary but no matter what you do with this radical, fundamental element, you will only get back hate. You can rail against me but that doesn't change the picture.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

I don't get "upset" when "folks" don't agree with me. I consider the source. I certainly think that Brigitte Gabrielle's experience of growing up in Lebanon, having to live on grass and search for water due to the persecution she felt from Islamic extremists as a Christian Lebanese may shed some light on the nature of the enemy. It might be useful for you to consider another point of view.

Sticking your head in the sand isn't a particularly good way to live either. Didn't we learn that lesson on 9/11?

I agree that considering other perspectives is a good thing to do. However, I don't understand how this web site can refer to Ms. Gabrielle as "an expert on the Middle East."

In checking out Ms. Gabrielle's credentials, I found that:

-- She grew up in Lebanon
-- Was an anchor for "World News" (an Arabic news cast)
-- Worked as a production coordinator for TV
-- Lived in Israel for 5 years
-- Speaks 4 languages
-- Has appeared on TV shows
-- Has a CD (for $18) titled "The Threat of Islam to Western Civilization"

Nothing about her education or research or degrees or anything that might somehow add any justification to the title "expert on the Middle East."

I agree Ms. Gabrielle has a perspective and an agenda (which is very clear from her not-so-nonpartisan web site). But I wouldn't go so far as to label her an "expert on the Middle East."

 

[DawnCt1]

Nothing about her education or research or degrees or anything that might somehow add any justification to the title "expert on the Middle East."

I agree Ms. Gabrielle has a perspective and an agenda (which is very clear from her not-so-nonpartisan web site). But I wouldn't go so far as to label her an "expert on the Middle East."

"Expert" is always a relative term. I guess if you were in the middle east, you might be considered an expert on America. One doesn't have to confer "expert status" on her to consider that her experiences may have certainly validated her opinion. While a concentration camp survivor may not be an "expert" on the Nazi's one could certainly feel that their experiences validates their opinion.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

"Expert" is always a relative term. I guess if you were in the middle east, you might be considered an expert on America. One doesn't have to confer "expert status" on her to consider that her experiences may have certainly validated her opinion. While a concentration camp survivor may not be an "expert" on the Nazi's one could certainly feel that their experiences validates their opinion.

Ah yes, gotta love the fluidity of language -- especially when it suits one's purpose or agenda. Somehow I doubt that you would be so fluid or "relative" as you say with this term if Ms. Gabrielle were posting for a site like the Democratic Underground or moveon.org.

I am not questioning the validity of her opinions. She is certainly entitled to them, entitled to express them, heck, I'll even buy her a bullhorn, set up a platform, build her a podium and gather a crowd for her if she wanted. Free speech is a wonderful thing.

My objection is simply that these people shouldn't make the vain attempt to hide their agenda behind their vapor-thin veil of alleged nonpartisanship. They don't need to try to build up their case by declaring someone an "expert on the Middle East" without offering some substantive credentials to support their claim. Just because someone says it doesn't make it so.

When people do this, it degrades the message and the messenger. Ms. Gabrielle has the right to speak out just like everyone else. She doesn't need some flimsy props to try to make her message appear more compelling. Listen to her -- why? -- because she's an "expert." Throwing words around like that, especially without any support, cheapens them. And it makes their message less credible (as if that were possible in this case).

 

[ThAnswr]

They have lived under an oppressive government/governments all of their lives. There has been no freedoms or democracy in the middle east. To qwell rebellion their governments have allowed, funded, supported madrasas to fuel radical fundamentalism. As long as that hatred could be focused on the Jews, the Christians, the West, etc it kept the focus off of their own repressive regimes. They aren't "born" that way but those of the Wajabi sect are indoctrinated that way from birth. There are successful, democratic Muslim countries (Turkey) who don't export terrorism because they give their citizens a chance at freedom. The Saudi citizens barely work. They import muslims from other repressive countries to do the menial duties. They find each other and fan the flames. You need to be realistic about the what we are actually up against.

Get your facts straight.

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 WERE Saudi citizens and NOT imported Muslims doing menial work. Saudi money is funding the madrassas and exporting their own radical cult-variety of Islam. You need to get realistic, indeed.

 

[Tigger_Magic]

Get your facts straight.

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 WERE Saudi citizens and NOT imported Muslims doing menial work. Saudi money is funding the madrassas and exporting their own radical cult-variety of Islam. You need to get realistic, indeed.

Never let the facts interfere with the agenda.

 

[DawnCt1]

Get your facts straight.

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers on 9/11 WERE Saudi citizens and NOT imported Muslims doing menial work. Saudi money is funding the madrassas and exporting their own radical cult-variety of Islam. You need to get realistic, indeed.

And Saudi citizens aren't subject to that same repressive government. I wasn't just talking about the hijackers of 9/11 but the suicide bombers that are flowing into Iraq. You get your facts straight.

 

[shortbun]

Dawn, the site you cite reminds me of the fear induced activities my mother put me through during the Cuban missle crisis. we shopped for a bomb shelter and stored fresh water every 30 days as well as having metal and sealable cans of food stored and hopefully safe to eat. I was timed running home from school with my brother who had to be bribed with food to run, lol. My mother has apologized for putting us through this fear as she is aware now that there are certain things we are just not in control of. The articles on this page are by individuals with their own opinions and views of what is happening around the world and here in the USA. I place about as much weight on their opinions are I do yours. In short, please quit pushing your fear and hate of others on me. It's not pleasant and I'm never going to think the way you do. I'm certain ALL DISers have their own opinions of the world around them. Yours is no more important that theirs although you seem to think you have the corner on knowledge and wisdom. Keep coming back but know that many of us here do not take you at all seriously.

 

[ThAnswr]

And Saudi citizens aren't subject to that same repressive government. I wasn't just talking about the hijackers of 9/11 but the suicide bombers that are flowing into Iraq. You get your facts straight.

This self-created puzzle of yours is getting more and more creative by the minute. You're making more twists and turns than a convoy going from Baghad airport to the city.

Btw, thanks for not using the rightwing talking point "homocide bombers" and puhleeeeze, don't claim you know who the suicide bombers are. Even the American government can't seem to get a handle on it. One day, it's foreign fighters. The next day it's former Baathists. And then there's the ever popular "I could've sworn we dug his grave last month" Al-Zarqawi.

And lest I forget, get your rhetoric straight.

 

[DawnCt1]

This self-created puzzle of yours is getting more and more creative by the minute. You're making more twists and turns than a convoy going from Baghad airport to the city.

Btw, thanks for not using the rightwing talking point "homocide bombers" and puhleeeeze, don't claim you know who the suicide bombers are. Even the American government can't seem to get a handle on it. One day, it's foreign fighters. The next day it's former Baathists. And then there's the ever popular "I could've sworn we dug his grave last month" Al-Zarqawi.

And lest I forget, get your rhetoric straight.

I meant to indicate that Saudi citizen ARE subject to a repressive government. The "aren't" was a typo.