Has Disney World lost it's magic?

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I was one of those 2 week Traditions classes...down to a 1/2 day? So sad, so sad.

I agree with everything you wrote. The magic is inside of US - we make it happen... the enchantment of Disney allows the child in each of us to celebrate!

I worked at Vero Beach in 1997. We had 2 days total--maybe a day and a half before we got our costumes and learned our specific area stuff. Our traditions was only a fraction of that time.

I remember wishing we had 2 weeks of tradition. That at least meant I'd have two more weeks before having to clean toilets for Lobby Mousekeeping.

The guest were wonderful. The lobby staff and coaches were wonderful.

I personally found the Mousekeeping Coaches to be horrendous, awful, and catty. It was a shame.

I ended up providing notice b/c a job opportunity I had been waiting on came through and my dreams of working for the mouse were shattered from the condescending nature of my coaches.

The look on my coaches face when she was compelled to inquire what they could do to get me to stay was priceless. She didn't like me and it was point blank obvious that General Management knew a good employee when they saw one.

One day, I may work again for the mouse--but the impression that left on me has lasted and I could very well envision why it is difficult to keep good employees especially in the more "unworthy" positions such as any type of cleaning where coaches treat the cast in that manner.

Example: A roudy crowd made a horrendous mess in the lobby after my shift. We had the overnight staff confirm this--it was at roughly 2am and my shift ended at 11/11:30. But that did not stop my coach from condemning me in front of the day shift as we were walking from the work building (Forget what it was called) one day en route to do our jobs. I was berated for not completing my work. I was in complete shock that she didn't get her facts straight and the repugnant look on the lady who comes in the mornings after I got off showed clear enjoyment that she had gotten me in trouble.

Clearly--those two must have had the shortened traditions class as well.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I think Disney's next theme should be You're Not Special, So Behave Yourself And We'll All Have A Good Time.

 

[dstevens]

This account from PP is not they way WDW used to be run according to Lee Cockerell in his book. More evidence that WDW is slidding? But it is still great to visit (for the person that believes this thread is only "bashing" WDW).

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Ours, too

We were trying to come up with ways WDW has improved or added enhancements over the 13+ years we've been staying on-property, and we keep coming up only with amenities and/or perks they have removed or that have declined over the years. Other than adding new attractions in the parks and more and more DVC resorts, we couldn't think of anything added that makes our stay more enjoyable. It seems that every year something disappears that was once included or available or cleanliness or service declines or becomes erratic, at best.

On another thread which asks what WDW should return from the "old Dis", it made me realize that too much that I value is disappearing, sometimes just the little things. But, those little things used to add up to great enjoyment.

WDW: Charge us more if you need to, but please stop this rapid decline in resort/park cleanliness, attention to detail, customer service/appreciation. Bring back the consistent quality and high standards which separated WDW from all the rest, and put the customer satisfaction surveys back in the rooms.

I have a theory that over the years, Disney has tried to make themselves more open to everyone regardless of income so that everyone can experience the magic.

All these promotions and discounts---cut into the magic b/c they cannot profit as much when they cut prices. For example--In the beginning of this year, the parks were crowded, but Disney wasn't doing well b/c when they do these promotions, they are hoping folks will eat and shop. But they don't. They go barebones just to get into the parks.

This is what turned us onto DVC and away from the All star Resorts.

I remember when they built the value resorts-at $69 it was a steal and it felt Disney. Over the years, I found they declined as they got more expensive and it truly felt I was at a themed Motel 6. It isn't to knock the resort or its clientele.

But Disney didn't have to make its business model "available to anyone and everyone". In the end it compromises what they can do to make the experience magical for everyone.

Going to Disney isn't in the US constitution and while it is great that all these families can go--when you cut the cost of going, it cuts into the profits of the company. Combined with overpayment of execs--the cuts have to come from somewhere.

Someone posted earlier that you can't get good employees by paying so little. I disagree.

Someone either has a good moral compass or they don't. They either have manners or they don't.

If you paid a rude cast member $50 an hour--they don't suddenly become polite.

Surely the money helps provide incentive to have a larger pool of applicants in which to draw from it higher quality employees--but as I stated above..it wasn't the wage that made my job as a mousekeeper horrible--it was my immediate supervisor ("coach") that made it a living hell towards the end of the two months. She treated me like I was white trash and the worst employee ever. It was awful. The entire cast of the lobby, all the office employees, DVC sales folks and all the leads, the kitchen staff (I had to clean their bathroom), the catering staff---ALL thought I did a wonderful job as did all the guests I encountered.

But up until management required her to ask how she could retain me--she would have conveyed that I was a horrible employee for matters beyond my control all due to another repugnant cast member who came in each morning to document what I did wrong---for things that occurred in the 8 hours since I had gone home.

You can pay an employee the base minimum--but if you treat them like gold, they will do much for you. Pay them a million dollars and make their lives a living hell, and you will lose them.

 

[Pats Dragon]

Actually I agree...but disagree. Free dining and promotions do not help very poor people go to DW. Believe me I know. Life sent me from the poly for a long stay to an offsite for a day. I could never have afforded the package back then no matter how good the deal. Those of you who believe they are for the "lower incomes" have never been there. Who can now afford 70-80 a day for 1 ticket? Only middle class and above.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

This account from PP is not they way WDW used to be run according to Lee Cockerell in his book. More evidence that WDW is slidding? But it is still great to visit (for the person that believes this thread is only "bashing" WDW).

Note that my job was in 1997, almost 12 years ago.

I just got stuck with a horrible coach. I never heard so much as a peep from the rest of the cast and their coaches in being treated in this manner.

I think the menial labor that we performed had something to do with it. I had a college degree and I do personally believe it affected how I was treated. There was another woman hired at the same time doing rooms. She was colleged educated and had a well paying career but had suffered a nervous breakdown (not with Disney). She was not well spoken about or well treated either. Neither was one of the asst. coaches who was working on leading as opposed to cleaning as she was in the latter stages of her pregnancy. (I do not recall the story with that). I found that they were selectively ill treated particular employees and it was a complete travesty.

It would be one thing to be looked down upon by another dept as we were doing the icky work...but it's like being looked down upon by your own mother when your own coaches treat you like dirt.


On a POSITIVE NOTE!

We do enjoy Disney! We finally bought DVC after 11 years of coveting it. We just completed two mini-visits recently and enjoyed ourselves.

I wouldn't so much say as the quality is declining as that it has noticably changed. We've just changed how we have vacationed. We do shorter spurts and we do ap's or seasonals so that we don't feel obligated to do everything all at once.

We went to AK on my daughter's birthday last week and had a fairly good time. I can't think of a bad moment, dirty bathroom or anything. We stayed in an SSR 1 BR. I won't say that our trip was 5-star, but we left completely satisfied and look forward to when we can plan another visit.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Actually I agree...but disagree. Free dining and promotions do not help very poor people go to DW. Believe me I know. Life sent me from the poly for a long stay to an offsite for a day. I could never have afforded the package back then no matter how good the deal. Those of you who believe they are for the "lower incomes" have never been there. Who can now afford 70-80 a day for 1 ticket? Only middle class and above.

While that may not be you--and while I do not have a crystal ball, one cannot deny that there is a population that feels Disney is a right of passage and to some degree, I think Disney tries to make the right of passage as possible as they can.

I never said it was for lower income. But they do attempt to appeal to the budget traveler who either travels that way b/c they choose to or b/c they have to.

There were no $69 on property hotel rooms when I went as a kid or even in high school.

There isn't now either-but when All Stars Opened, my husband and I stayed their quite a few times on those rates.


IF they weren't trying to gain more market share by catering to all budgets, they never would have bothered with the value resort business model.

 

[Pats Dragon]

Sorry, I just meant that its unlikely that they want to open up the parks to lower income people. It is more likely that they want people who aren't dis fans to recognize a bargain and go. At the same time they are increasing prices on tickets, varying rates at resorts based on the day of the week, adding holiday fees, etc.

 

[si-am]

I actually think Disney is MORE unaffordable now than it has ever been.

You are paying more than ever, but even worse, getting less for your money.

It's starting to become a pretty terrible value.

 

[Pats Dragon]

I agree with you Siam. No matter what happened we could always afford DW. Now, fortunately, WE can, but lots of folks who could have gone years ago find it out of reach. Or even worse, they save for years for a couple of days at DW and are disappointed. Sad.

 

[TheNewman6]

For me Disney has not lost its magic. I love everything about being there with my family. Sure you may see trash from time to time but it seems like a small issue compared to some other places I have visited. I think sometimes our expectations are high for Disney but not always realistic. If they could make people use trash cans that would be magic indeed

 

[Miaka]

- needs a delete key if you change your mind about the point of posting.

sorry all.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Wow, I thought the Dis boards were a friendly place to be, but some of the remarks I have seen today about the people who go and save up for years and years to be able to afford to go to disney even once with their kids are some how less then desierable park Goers because they can't afford DVC or afford to go 3 or4 times a year makes me sick.

My brother and his wife could afford to go whenever they want, they make 6 figures each, and you know what, they LOVED their stay at the All Star Music. Could they have afforded to go to another resort, you bet, but they chose the value even though. I have loved surfing these boards these last few weeks, but some of the remarks in this thread, and in others, make me wonder if I should come back. You can bet I'll be off to disney next year with my family, but I'm not so sure I want to be around elitests who want the world their way. Magic is what you make it, if you want to nitpick about everything feel free, and Yes, I know I could have stopped reading this thread, but I just want people to realize that maybe some of the attitudes from the other posters might be coloring the way people view things and if they are having fun here any more, and might be chasing them off more then the 'decline of disney'.

You missed the point entirely. It isn't to slam any sect of the population. It does entice those with tighter budgets more stays.

Bottom line--with all the marketing promotions--those discounts only come from one place and that is the profit margin.

It is factually accurate that with all the marketing promotions and discounts that disney has offered in the past 6-12 months with the economy that the parks while full, lost money as they planned for those patrons to spend money in the parks. But those folks didn't. So the parks lost money in an effort to make Disney affordable and keep attendance up.



It happens in grocery stores with loss leaders--they have them to entice you to come to get the deal and then spend more elsewhere.

Only for Disney--folks aren't getting mac and cheese for a dime--but they are getting free meals for their stay, or half the hotel nights for free or some other thing.

The purpose behind these marketing ploys is to take a hit in one area versus making no money at all and then the savings is spent elsewhere.

It didn't happen.

Disney in its efforts to make things "more affordable" (A relative term)--isn't getting the profit they had planned for.


I did say "more open" regardless of income---which is a true statement and not an implication that they are marketing to poor people who are bringing the mouse down.

 

[Planogirl]

I think that WDW is less affordable too now but that's only from my perspective. We used to stay at the Polynesian! That hotel has skyrocketed so much in price that I couldn't even think of staying there now plus I don't think that the resort is worth the cost. I don't think that the luxury resorts are actually luxury even though they charge high prices for them. I know, location, location, location...

Tickets are expensive too. I marvel over how large families pay for passes. They're gone up a lot over the years too. Is it a good bargain? Yes, if you stay long enough and break it down into days. That doesn't keep it from being expensive particularly for large groups.

 

[Modeltrf]

I think Disney's next theme should be You're Not Special, So Behave Yourself And We'll All Have A Good Time.

Am I the 4th, 6th, 8th person to quote this?

I second the motion! Let's send it to Disney for a final approval and let the magic begin again.




Just kidding about that magic begin again statement. I am in the it's still magical camp. But I am certain it would be more magical if the above theme was adopted!!!

 

[luvthemouse71]

I worked at Vero Beach in 1997. We had 2 days total--maybe a day and a half before we got our costumes and learned our specific area stuff. Our traditions was only a fraction of that time.

I remember wishing we had 2 weeks of tradition. That at least meant I'd have two more weeks before having to clean toilets for Lobby Mousekeeping.

The guest were wonderful. The lobby staff and coaches were wonderful.

I personally found the Mousekeeping Coaches to be horrendous, awful, and catty. It was a shame.

I ended up providing notice b/c a job opportunity I had been waiting on came through and my dreams of working for the mouse were shattered from the condescending nature of my coaches.

The look on my coaches face when she was compelled to inquire what they could do to get me to stay was priceless. She didn't like me and it was point blank obvious that General Management knew a good employee when they saw one.

One day, I may work again for the mouse--but the impression that left on me has lasted and I could very well envision why it is difficult to keep good employees especially in the more "unworthy" positions such as any type of cleaning where coaches treat the cast in that manner.

Example: A roudy crowd made a horrendous mess in the lobby after my shift. We had the overnight staff confirm this--it was at roughly 2am and my shift ended at 11/11:30. But that did not stop my coach from condemning me in front of the day shift as we were walking from the work building (Forget what it was called) one day en route to do our jobs. I was berated for not completing my work. I was in complete shock that she didn't get her facts straight and the repugnant look on the lady who comes in the mornings after I got off showed clear enjoyment that she had gotten me in trouble.

Clearly--those two must have had the shortened traditions class as well.

Unfortunately, there are catty people in every line of work. One hospital I used to work at had some of the most EVIL people working there. They'd sabotage you to make themselves look better.

It depends on management to a large degree-you have to have strong management that doesn't condone bullying. Also, unions helpThat's terrible that these people treated you like that. Did they have exit interviews there? If so, I would have let them know that there were big issues in that department.

 

[luvthemouse71]

:

Please please, please don't let anyone on these boards deter you from what will be the most wonderful magical trip of your life. If you had not read any of these threads you would be planning with such joy and I regret that your excitement has been dimmed by people who are so spoiled and lucky to be able to go these wonderful parks many times and forget the wonderment of their first time with Mickey. I am 61 years old and have been there many times, but still look forward to the planning and talking about & then the first time you enter Disney property. You see the sign and your stomach gets quivvery and you know you are able to forget problems and heartache & even sorrow while you are there. i have traveled and never found a place that could fulfill that claim except for Disney. Nowhere you go can you find a place that never has a cleanliness problem once in a while no matter how much you pay, this claim that six Flags is the cleanest park. I have visited many and they are nowhere near as big as WDW nor do they service as many people, so I take no note of the comparison. Surly castmembers? Did you notice what happened right before this? How rude & demanding and obnoxious were the people before you? Walk a mile in my shoes please.
I have only ever been treated with respect, because I give respect, if I have had a problem I report it with understanding and have had my problem solved.
I walk onto main Street and am filled with joy and wonder and
a feeling of homecoming second only to my family, so I ask you once again, go with an open heart and watch the joy and wonder on your childrens faces as well as your own and Have the most magical time of your life. And when you come back please let us know how you feel and let me tell you "I told you so"

ITA..In the 6 times I've been to WDW as an adult-I have only had 2 rude cast members. And one of them wasn't really rude, more indifferent.

I also agree with in many cases, you get what you give..I still get CM's that go out of their way to say hello. I think it's because I don't have a big ol' chip on my shoulder because I didn't get a towel animal, I don't have a look on my face like I'm going to kill someone and I don't have my hand out wondering what freebie I can score today. I've gotten resort upgrades, yes, but they were surprises-I certainly didn't expect them and I was very grateful when they happened.

I do think that WDW caused many of their own issues with all these promotions, birthday buttons, towel animals. If you really think about it, a birthday in most cases is not a big freakin' deal..everyone has a dang birthday. But now you get people that freak if their little precious doesn't get a birthday button.

As far as the value not being there, I disagree. Someone may have 6 kids, but the decision to have a big familiy was theirs..it's not the norm, so I think it's unrealistic of people to expect Disney to cater to what is a small segment of families.

 

[Kickapoo Joie Juice]

Second stay, last Feb, was WAAAAYYY too crowded and when I got to wander around a bit more, peek into nooks and corners, I could see that too much of the "atmosphere" was WAAAAAYYY too generic and consumerish. Gelded into corporate hegemony.

We were also there this feb and we were stunned at how crowded it was-it was actually one of our least pleasant trips because we did not make a plan that accomodated heavy crowd levels and it was very challenging. Our april trip was VERY crowd-avoidance oriented and we had a much better time. But I feel your pain about Feb-we did not enjoy ourselves that trip.

This account from PP is not they way WDW used to be run according to Lee Cockerell in his book. More evidence that WDW is sliding? But it is still great to visit (for the person that believes this thread is only "bashing" WDW).

I'm almost done with that book, I'm listening to the CD version since I'm driving my kids 45 minutes each way to rocket science camp this week. They're listening to it with me (they're 10 and 9) and are as fascinated by it as I am. It explains SO much to me about what I'm seeing post 2006 and why the 1998-2006 years were very "golden" for us as visitors.

I wouldn't so much say as the quality is declining as that it has noticably changed. We've just changed how we have vacationed. We do shorter spurts and we do ap's or seasonals so that we don't feel obligated to do everything all at once.

We went to AK on my daughter's birthday last week and had a fairly good time. I can't think of a bad moment, dirty bathroom or anything. We stayed in an SSR 1 BR. I won't say that our trip was 5-star, but we left completely satisfied and look forward to when we can plan another visit.

We've also changed how we vacation in the past three years, almost exactly how you did. We bought DVC in 2005, have AP's, and do shorter 3 and 4 day trips typicall-we find this increased our enjoyment.

]"You're Not Special, So Behave Yourself And We'll All Have A Good Time."[/I]


Am I the 4th, 6th, 8th person to quote this?

If the tag fairy didn't have me on her s**t list that would be my tag.

Some of the amenities at Disney we've stopped patronizing because of crowds or poor managment include:

1. The busses

2. Fantasmic

3. Character buffets

4. Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party

5. Finding Nemo (the show at AK)


You can add the Monorail to that list, until I see more transparency in how Disney is handling the safety issues that have occurred. For me, a statement from their media department that says "additional safety meaures have been instituted" is totally insufficient.

However, that's another thread.

There are always going to be things about Disney that we don't enjoy, and things we do enjoy. For the past 20 years, our enjoy/unhappiness ratio has been very much on the positive. I anticipate it will remain mostly positive, and I anticipate I will continue to give Disney constructive feedback, both positive and negative, as long as I am a patron there.

We are looking forward to our two daughters perhaps getting married at WDW someday.

 

[Miaka]

You missed the point entirely. It isn't to slam any sect of the population. It does entice those with tighter budgets more stays.

Bottom line--with all the marketing promotions--those discounts only come from one place and that is the profit margin.

It is factually accurate that with all the marketing promotions and discounts that disney has offered in the past 6-12 months with the economy that the parks while full, lost money as they planned for those patrons to spend money in the parks. But those folks didn't. So the parks lost money in an effort to make Disney affordable and keep attendance up.



It happens in grocery stores with loss leaders--they have them to entice you to come to get the deal and then spend more elsewhere.

Only for Disney--folks aren't getting mac and cheese for a dime--but they are getting free meals for their stay, or half the hotel nights for free or some other thing.

The purpose behind these marketing ploys is to take a hit in one area versus making no money at all and then the savings is spent elsewhere.

It didn't happen.

Disney in its efforts to make things "more affordable" (A relative term)--isn't getting the profit they had planned for.


I did say "more open" regardless of income---which is a true statement and not an implication that they are marketing to poor people who are bringing the mouse down.

I didn't miss the point of the thread, I cannot agree or disagree with losing it's "magic" i have only been once, and plan again to go next year, my point of my whole message (and why I deleted it because I didn't feel it should have been posted in a snit after reading for the 10th time how some people view those who stay at value or moderate as "less then them".) I came to the board for information, and I have found some great information, but the attitudes were starting to sour me on the board. My remarks weren't directed towards the downfall of disney, perceived or not, my remarks were directed towards the sense of entitlement and elitist snobbery I was seeing in some of the messages.

Again, the reason I deleted it, but since it was directly commented upon before I deleted it (all I can say is you must have been responded at the same time I was hunting for the delete command. LOL) I felt I would respond and clarify what I was meaning. I've worked for YEARS in retail, and seen and been effected first hand by the down turn in economy as well as upswings, I know what has to be done to keep people coming in to spend money.

 

[ppony]

Some of the amenities at Disney we've stopped patronizing because of crowds or poor managment include:
4. Mickey's Very Merry Christmas Party

AMEN to that! Holy buckets! Tuesday night. All is great. Exactly what I'd expect of a "limited admission" event. But Thursday or Friday? NOTHING magical about over and hour wait for SM when you only have a few hours period. And the insane wall to wall *sses to elbows people. It's billed as "intimate" or was, but I didn't realize they meant that in the biblical sense! If I ever do that party again, I'll only do it Tuesday. We left the party after 3 hours last time and weren't alone on the monorail with others complaining about the crowds.