Has Disney let Universal Catch Up In All Market Segments?

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by eclipseSD
I don't care if someone gets really annoyed that I waited 5 minutes when they waited 2 hours. They had the chance of staying onsite. I took advantage of it. My gain, their loss.

Unless they can't afford to stay at one of the Universal resorts, in that case Universal is separating their guests by class structure.

FOTL/Express is the one system I feel Universal has Disney beat by at least 25%

Unfortunately Disney could never offer the same type of FOTL access to their resorts guests that Universal offers to theirs.

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Wow, two truthful events I experienced, one honest concern I have about FotL priviledges and one itsy, bitsy show dig, and you call that mud slinging ?? Amazing.

Or maybe you should go back and re-read your post.

I can't tell you how many ride stoppages I've encountered at Disney over the years. I waited over an hour with a small cousin on a boat backup in Its a Small World, been stopped in the middle of Spaceship Earth going backwords several times, even my parents were LEFT and FORGOT ABOUT on Space Mountain once. My father had to get out and walk back to the front (it was at the beginning of the ride) after 2 hours to find out why they weren't let off the ride!

And I feel more sick coming out of Body Wars than from BTTF, and I've ridden BTTF over 40 times.

No park is perfect, but everyone has their stories on one side or another. These are just some examples of what's happened to my family over the years. Why do we go back? Free tickets.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Well, we got pretty far before we got into ‘Nanny, nanny, poo, poo – my park is better than yours ’. I should have anticipated that would happen. A few comments……………..

Patches is right, Disney does give you less today, for more money, than they gave you yesterday. However, Matt is correct when he points out that that fact alone is irrelevant to the OT. Some people find more entertainment and quality at Disney, some find more at Universal. Different strokes for different folks. Everyone is free to go to the park that they enjoy most. Can we relate this back to the OT? Sure. That OT had to do with Universal having caught up with Disney in virtually every market segment. So, are more people going to Universal than Disney? If not overall, how about in particular market segments? The relevant question isn’t who’s open later, or who has what parade, or who has what parking facilities. The relevant question is in which combination of those things do more people find more ‘bang for the buck’.

Another relevant question would be whether more people, either overall or by market segment, have to go to Universal for one to consider Universal as having ‘caught up’. Let’s say for arguments sake that Universal has better rides, better hotels, better FP/FotL access systems, better restaurants, better…………, better……….., better………… yet fewer people and fewer families ever go there. Can one be considered to have caught up or surpassed Disney if there offerings are of equal or better quality and entertainment value for all groups, yet the people never come? Perhaps a Baron clarification on ‘caught up’ is needed, yet he seems to be avoiding this thread.

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
Perhaps a Baron clarification on ‘caught up’ is needed, yet he seems to be avoiding this thread.

At this point I can't blame him...

But anyway, as I see the description of the topic is if every demographic comes out of a theme park feeling satisfied and wanting to come back, then you can say that they are good for every market segment.

I can't yet say that entirely for UO, but I can say that it's much better along than, something like AK or even EPCOT (at the moment). Animal Kingdom does need more rides to become a fully-fledged theme park IMO. Busch Gardens, while only lightly-themed, still has much more thrilling attractions, and still has decent zoo tours, interactive areas, etc.

EPCOT is, as we all know, getting outdated in some areas and being replaced with less-than-par attractions in other areas. Besides a couple attractions, I'm not too enthused about going there anymore (and it used to be, by far, my favorite park). Though, I really enjoy Test Track.

 

[DisneyKidds]

At this point I can't blame him...

If you mean for purposes of avoiding the 'my park is better than yours' game, sure. However....................

Someone made a statement about Universal catching up to Disney. I started a thread that simply asked.......... 'is this so, and if you think so please provide your reasoning?'......... Is that such a terrible question that it should be avoided - especially if you are the one who made the statement?

Not that I am asking this in a fruitless attempt to draw our good friend Baron into the meaningful part (for me at least) of this 170+ post, 2300+ hit 'waste of time' (I've given up on that), but I'm just not sure what you mean when you say you 'can't blame him'.

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by DisneyKidds
If you mean for purposes of avoiding the 'my park is better than yours' game, sure. However....................

Someone made a statement about Universal catching up to Disney. I started a thread that simply asked.......... 'is this so, and if you think so please provide your reasoning?'......... Is that such a terrible question that it should be avoided - especially if you are the one who made the statement?

Not that I am asking this in a fruitless attempt to draw our good friend Baron into the meaningful part (for me at least) of this 170+ post, 2300+ hit 'waste of time' (I've given up on that), but I'm just not sure what you mean when you say you 'can't blame him'.

Well, it took 11 pages, but eventually this thread turned into a "well this is my bad experience at _____" vs. "Well, this ride sent 15 people to the hospital when I went" back and forth, etc. etc.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Well, it took 11 pages, but eventually this thread turned into a "well this is my bad experience at _____" vs. "Well, this ride sent 15 people to the hospital when I went" back and forth, etc. etc.

I know what you are saying my friend . I'm surprised we got 11 pages before that happened . I did try and direct this thread back on topic by asking a few more relevant questions. With any luck it will work.

 

[Patch'sD]

Thanx for the feed back. Again I don't try to compare the parks in terms of which is better. At this time, My demographics, Two Teenagers, One Preteen, Two Kid at heart adults. Universal is a better option for me. My point is that Disney is making so many cutbacks that they are giving you less but asking you to pay more. My travel dollar goes further at Universal and gives me the enjoyment that I am looking for. If my childern were younger I might spend more time at Disney, but at this point maybe a day trip to the MK will be all for us. I was just trying to make the point that Disney is Tweaking and Tweaking at cost effciency until a saturation point is achieved. At this point customer loyality will go out the window and people will then not be willing to spend additional dollars to go to Disney.

I am not a constant visitor, I have been there four times in the past 13 years. My first visit On-site Guests recieved Perferred Reservations, Early Entry for about half the number of hotel rooms they have now, plus what they still offer today. Fast forward to today, EE parks are avoided and most of the attractions are not operating anyway. Reservations are made with everyone else. Comparing my stay from three years ago Park hours in MK and AK are cut by 2 hours per day. If I were to go today, I will be paying more for less.

Even at Universal I will be getting less for more, However with FOTL and a 3 day pass, I think i can make up for it. I spent a total of six days at Universal and IOA. During that time I encountered Spiderman being down for about 1/2 hour and Dudley Do Right operating on one track for half a day.

Thanx

 

[hopemax]

Another relevant question would be whether more people, either overall or by market segment, have to go to Universal for one to consider Universal as having ‘caught up’.

IMO, I disagree with the idea that Universal must attrack more visitors than the Magic Kingdom in order to be "caught up." Imagine 2 kids. Kid #1 is the prodigal child, always turns in perfect homework and scores the highest on the first test. Kid #2 never turned in homework, and failed the first test. Parent's get involved and gets kid #2 to realize the importance of this class. So Kid #2 starts doing his homework and studying. Kid #1 is smart enough to realize that by being so perfect on the first 1/3 of the class that all he has to do is average a C for the rest of the class and he will still pass the class, so homework doesn't always have to be turned in, and getting a B on a test is fine. By progress report #2 both kids are getting the same grade on tests, and when both kids turn in homework they are getting the same grades there too. So has kid #2 caught up to kid #1? I would say yes, at this point they are performing identically, but if you combine all their homework and test grades, Kid #1 will still have a higher grade on the basis of the first 1/3 of the class. It's possible that in the 3rd part of the class, Kid #2 could outperform Kid #1 but when that final grade comes in, Kid #1 could still have a higher grade, because of the disparity between them in the first 1/3.

I'm not sure we have the resources to know exactly what's going on. Attendance is one indicator, but it's tricky right now. The economic and political situation right now has to be considered, for both properties and I'm not sure if percentage drops and gains are the best indicators. Let's say 100,000 people have to cancel their trip to FL. They were going to go to both Universal and WDW. Well, subtract .1 million and run the percentages and Universal will have a greater drop, percentage wise, but would it be unfair to say that both properties were affected equally, the same people didn't go to either?

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Patch'sD
Thanx for the feed back. Again I don't try to compare the parks in terms of which is better.

You say that you don't try to compare about which is "better". Yet you go on talking about the cutbacks at Disney, and even in an earlier post you talked about things that Disney was "supposedly" taking away. So you are trying to compare, a comparison on items that I refuted which you don't seem to have a defense for. Disney isn't asking you to pay more, they haven't raised prices, they are just making cutbacks based on the economy. Just like Universal is making cutbacks based on the economy, and they aren't charging more either. I went to the Orlando area in January, all of Disney's rides were operational at the time I went, the one day I went to IOA Dueling Dragons, Carou-Suesse-l, and Storm Force Acceleration were all down for rehab. Also my favorite restaurant at IOA, Thunder Falls Terrace, was closed as well. Should they have discounted my day pass? No, because the tings are expectations that I have either going in an off season or when the economy is in a slump. I think its great that you can spend 6 days at Universal, I on the other hand would be bored to tears after just spending more then 2 days at each park. But what works for you works for you and that is great.

Even at Universal I will be getting less for more, However with FOTL and a 3 day pass

I still and always will disagree on seperating your guests by class structure based on FOTL.

The best comparison I have on this issue is the Girl Scouts. The Girl Scouts? Yes, the Girl Scouts. Girl Scout cookie time is around, I remember a few years back when you would order the Caramel Delights and you would get like 25 cookies for $2.00. I just bought a box of the same cookies and now I only get 15 cookies for $3.50, people will complain about this but they will keep buying them. Why? Because they are good and people like them. Why do I keep paying the money to go to Disney and Universal? Because I think it is good and still like it.

 

[All Aboard]

I went to the Orlando area in January, all of Disney's rides were operational

Just curious, did you enjoy The Voyage of the Little Mermaid, Timekeeper, Carousel of Progress, Mike Fink Keel Boats, Hunchback of Notre Dame, Backstage Pass, or how about those seacabs in The Living Seas.

Did you get a chance to enjoy breakfast at Tony's? Perhaps you ate with Pooh and friends at Artist Point? Wasn't the Italian food great at Pasta Piazza?


"All", you say? Hmmm.

 

[All Aboard]

Scoop, just trying to pierce that middle ground. Seems too many extremes get posted here. I read the message that Universal had attractions and restaurants all over the place that were not operating and that at Disney, it's was "all" a go!

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by thedscoop
Greg, I didn't take that post to mean that all the closed or seasonal attractions were open but rather that none of the operational attractions were in rehab. Maybe he could clear that one up...

Took the words right out of my mouth. Rides that were in rehab were in rehab, rides and shows that had been closed were just that, closed. But everything that should have been up and running..... was.

And I ammend my statement, Storm Force and the Carousell weren't down for rehab, they were just plain closed. As well as Thunder Falls Terrace, and the pizza place in Jurassic Park. I also forgot to mention that the only thing open for food in the Toon Lagoon area was "Wimpy's Burgers" or whatever it is called. The day we went to IOA it started to become a joke when it was lunch time of which places were open. First we walked to Thunder Falls Terrace, closed. Then we walked to Pizza Predatoria, closed. Now we back track to Toon Lagoon, and stop at Blondie's first, closed. Then we went off to Comic Strip Cafe, closed. Now it has just become comical, we notice people getting burgers at Wimpy's and settle for that.

The Voyage of the Little Mermaid

Nope, under rehab.

Hunchback of Notre Dame

Being replaced.

Timekeeper, Carousel of Progress

Seasonal attractions.

those seacabs in The Living Seas

Rehab

Perhaps you ate with Pooh and friends at Artist Point?

At least I was allowed other options so I could dine with the characters.

 

[pheneix]

>>>Storm Force and the Carousell weren't down for rehab, they were just plain closed<<<

The Carousell was definitely not closed as a cost cutting measure, as it has never been and never will be considered as a cost cut during the slow season. The only reason it could have been closed would be due to some kind of critical mechanical failure.

The only other attraction that is closed during the slow season is the Triceritops Encounter, and its debatable over whether or not it really matters since its daily capacity is tragically low anytime of the year (it doesn't make it right though). It makes the Carousel of Progress look like the Tower of Terror by comparison.

The restuarants were definitely closed as a cost cutting measure though, and I don't agree with how far they took it (the sole exception being Thunder Falls Terrace, which was gutted for Halloween Horror Nights and isn't on the slate to be reopened anytime soon). OTH, did you happen to stop by the Confisco Grille? How about the Enchanted Oak Tavern? There were many more restuarants open on the north side of the park (Lost Continent, Seuss Landing, Port of Entry) than in the south.

BTW, all of the shuttered attractions and staggered hours for IOA were abolished when attendance started tracking higher than expected at the end of February.

Now, looking at Disney:

>>>Hunchback of Notre Dame

Being replaced.<<<

Yeah, and the Pope's jewish...

>>>Timekeeper, Carousel of Progress

Seasonal attractions.<<<

DAMN! Didn't you just rag on Universal for doing the very same thing?!?

>>>those seacabs in The Living Seas

Rehab<<<

Hey, I didn't know the pope was jewish!

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by pheneix
The Carousell was definitely not closed as a cost cutting measure, as it has never been and never will be considered as a cost cut during the slow season. The only reason it could have been closed would be due to some kind of critical mechanical failure.

I don't remember saying specifically why they were closed did I? Nope, just said they were closed.

BTW, all of the shuttered attractions and staggered hours for IOA were abolished when attendance started tracking higher than expected at the end of February.

So is that why the week of Spring Break that the Magic Kingdom is open an hour later then IOA?

Yeah, and the Pope's jewish

Rumor is they are making way for a new stage show based on another animated film, but you can believe what you want.

DAMN! Didn't you just rag on Universal for doing the very same thing?!?

No, I didn't. And there is no need to swear so your voice can be heard.

Hey, I didn't know the pope was jewish!

Again, believe what you want.

I'm just waiting for Project Gemini to be announced to the public.

 

[eclipseSD]

I don't consider FOTL a class system, I consider it a perk.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by eclipseSD
I don't consider FOTL a class system, I consider it a perk.

A perk? Of course. A separation based on money? That also. If you have enough money to stay at a Universal resort, then you can afford the "perk", if you can't afford it, forget you then.

 

[wdwfreak]

Originally posted by HauntedMansionFan
A perk? Of course. A separation based on money? That also. If you have enough money to stay at a Universal resort, then you can afford the "perk", if you can't afford it, forget you then.

So by that logic, wouldn't EMH fall under the category of "separation based on money"?

 

[KNWVIKING]

"The Carousell was definitely not closed as a cost cutting measure, as it has never been and never will be considered as a cost cut during the slow season. The only reason it could have been closed would be due to some kind of critical mechanical failure."

We did three trips to WDW in 2002, May,Nov,Dec, all at basically off season times. Carousell was closed all thre weeks. We asked several CM's what the deal was. All stated nothing was wrong with the ride,they just don't open it on slow days. When they consider the park to be full enough,they will open CoP as a way to thin the other lines. While I know CM's don't always give good info, the fact that every CM had the same answer leads me to believe they're correct. I also never saw any noticable work being performed on the ride.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by wdwfreak
So by that logic, wouldn't EMH fall under the category of "separation based on money"?

Nope. The early magic hour is a perk given to Disney on-site guests, this happens before normal operation hours, so nothing is being taken away from regular day guests at the park that has been choosen to host the EMH. Now if Disney stated that their parks open at 9 every day but day guests couldn't enter until 11 so the on-site guests can enjoy everything all morning, then yes, it would be separation based on money. But because there is no effect on every guests that enters through the turnstiles, my answer is no on this question.