Has Disney let Universal Catch Up In All Market Segments?

[DisneyKidds]

Decades ago, the Niners/Disney were down & going nowhere. Then along comes Walsh/ME who do amazing things with the Niners/Disney and in a few years they are dynasties. Then the rest of the NFL/Theme parks see what has happened,learn the Niner/Disney system,think outside the box, and low and behold the other Teams/IOA start to catch up, winning isn't as easy. Soon Assistant Coaches/Disney Exec are looking for Head Coach/CEO positions. Niners/Disney are still competitive, still a quality team/product, but they need new blood again.......

Interesting analogy. However, I'd say that salary cap issues had more to do with the fall of the 49ers dynasty than did the competition figuring out the 49ers system.

I suppose that Disney has a sort of 'salary cap' problem, yet theirs is very much self imposed. What does the NFL salary cap do? In essence, it limits what a team can spend. Disney, too, is limited in what they can spend on the parks. However, this limitation was created by the faulty decisions on such things as ABC, Go.com, etc., etc.

As for the 49ers and Disney's divergent paths, the 49ers are successful in their post salary cap world because they are adding new, young, quality players. Disney's additions since their 'cap' was self imposed have not been of the highest quality.

As for Disney and Universal being apples to oranges, I agree that they are to a certain extent. That is why I don't believe Universal will ever completely catch Disney in every market segment. As for changing the 'topic', you would have to check with a certain someone who made the original statement that this thread is based on. I fear, however, that that someone doesn't want to talk about it.

 

[Patch'sD]

I don't look for the tracks either and I never noticed it in Cat in the Hat even the Thing one and Thing two, But I was there to enjoy myself, not compare it to something that exists at another park somewhere.

I don't compare Disney and Universal. I enjoy them. Right now my Market Segement family feels that Universal provides the right entertainment and provides it at the best bang for the buck. End of Story.

What I don't get is the constant whinning of cuts in service, hours, perks, food, maintenance without any action. With little exception people here are still spending their hard earned dollars for reduced Disney Enjoyment. " Even with the cuts it's still better than Universal". The way I read this " I will gladly pay more for less". Until Disney sees steady drops in revenue with reductions in profit there will be no change. If revenue drops are exceeded by cost reductions Disney is making more money and will continue to increase shareholder value. It's the wrong business model, but it seems to be working and right here is the proof.

 

[Testtrack321]

What I don't get is the constant whinning of cuts in service, hours, perks, food, maintenance without any action. With little exception people here are still spending their hard earned dollars for reduced Disney Enjoyment. " Even with the cuts it's still better than Universal". The way I read this " I will gladly pay more for less".

I would gladly pay 'more' for 'less'. I would gladly pay 'more' for a nice fille mignon and get 'less' than if I bought a burger and fries. I would gladly pay 'more' for a nice car that has 'less' features than a crappy car that has a ton.

The thing I'm going here is this: I would pay more for Disney than Universal. Disney hadles crowds better, they have higher quality, and a nicer park. Universal, although nice, gives you more and more that really isn't great.

Now we will get into the 'my park can kick your parks butt' thing because of me, but think of it this way. Would you pay $50 to park in a parking grage and then walk past nightclubs to your park, or would you park in a parking-lot, ride a tram to the monorial, then go to the park for the same amount of money?

So now who is spending more for less?

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by Testtrack321
Now we will get into the 'my park can kick your parks butt' thing because of me, but think of it this way. Would you pay $50 to park in a parking grage and then walk past nightclubs to your park, or would you park in a parking-lot, ride a tram to the monorial, then go to the park for the same amount of money?

So now who is spending more for less?

That is IF there is a monorail that goes to the park you're waiting for...if not then you have to wait for a bus or take a veeery slow ferry boat to your destination. Either way adds at least 20-30 mins to a day.

Now I enjoy the idea that my car is under a very sturdy building away from the sunlight, with security and that I can park hop almost as easily as just going through a single park. Technically the walk from the front of USF to the back of it is probably a longer walk from the front of USF to IOA. Having a choice of shopping, dining, other air-conditioned places is just a bonus.

It's all in what you prefer. I prefer a 5 minute walk than a 20 minute cramped bus ride, although the monorail is nice, of course.

 

[raidermatt]

Niners?

Bill Walsh = Michael Eisner?

Wow.

First, can't stand the Niners.

Second, they play some 400 odd miles from the Angels (so do the Raiders....at least this year!)

Third, Bill Walsh is/was a genius with regard to the core product of his organization: Football. He could coach it, he can evaluate talent, he can motivate, the whole package. Even Eisner's biggest supporters can't call him an entertainment genius with a straight face.

Fourth, the new Niner regime has purged the last vestiges of the old regime, with the exception of Bill himself being kept around as a consultant. We'll see how they do over the next 2-3 years...

I know what you were getting at, Vike. A better hypothetical analogy might be Angels/Lakers, Raiders/A's, or Bears/Cubs. I think what you'll generally find is that if the organization is well-run and provides its fans with what it wants, then the success of one team doesn't really detrimentally impact the other. There's enough to go around when both organizations are strong.

But there is some overlap in their markets, and should one falter, and stop giving its fans the product they've come to expect, then yes, the success of the Angels could detrimentally affect the Lakers. But the root and core of the Lakers' problem would still be the Lakers mistakes, and not the strong moves of the Angels.

When you look at numbers, it will look like the Angels took away the Lakers' customers, but that may not really be the complete story. What's most likely is that the Lakers lost their customers not BECAUSE of the Angels, but simply because they faltered.

Likewise, if Disney were to only worry about Disney, and strive to maintain the same standards they always have, whether Universal succeeds or not would have little impact on them.

The concern that some of us have is not so much that Universal is doing some things right. Its that Disney is NOT doing many things right.

Universal is just a largely objective barometer to measure things against, and try to identify if anything tangible is really changing from a business perspective.

 

[raidermatt]

What I don't get is the constant whinning of cuts in service, hours, perks, food, maintenance without any action. With little exception people here are still spending their hard earned dollars for reduced Disney Enjoyment.

I'll make it real easy.

You patronize park A because it gives you 100 units of enjoyment for $100.

You don't partronize park B because it only gives you 70 units of enjoyment, even though its only $90.

Then, park A makes some cuts, and you now get 95 units of enjoyment for your $100.

If your goal is to provide your family with the most enjoyment possible, wouldn't you still choose park A?

However, wouldn't you also be concerned that park A may not be through with its cuts, that its heading in the wrong direction? Especially if you are trying to view it from a "business" point of view?

 

[crusader]

Fantastic - after umteen posts we've digressed to applying football analogies to themeparks.

Let me ask this - anyone know anyone who is so loyal to a team they refuse to watch any other team? They never spectate at any competitors arena? They never watch the championship unless their team is in it? They never spend even one dollar outside their homefield. Come-on!

 

[KNWVIKING]

Raidermatt, as I said, my analogy would have been better had the Rams still been in L.A. , but I think you got the point.

Crusader, I'm not sure I understand your last post, but it sounds like my analogy ruffled your feathers a bit. But in fact we're saying the same thing. A loyal Niners fan can watch the Angels, a loyal Disney fan can go to IOA/US. It doesn't mean that IOA has caught Disney, it just means both present an appealling product.

 

[Patch'sD]

First off I don't care if your park is better than mine. We are all entitled to our own opinion. My Point is your Park. Yesterday you paid admission and hotel rental to a park that was opened till 10:00 PM, Becuase you were a Hotel Guest that park allowed you in an hour early, sent packages back to your room, and gave you free transportation. The park also had most if not all rides operating all the time, had lots of shows during the day, and gave you fireworks at night. Today that same park that kicks but. Closes at 6:00 PM, does not send packages back to your room. Opens some rides late and closes them early, has less shows and lets you gamble on when a firework show will be, but expects you pay the same ammount or more. " Pay more for less". You my friend are paying more for less service. Disney sees this as increase to their profit margin and thus increase share holder value and a very temporary rise in the stock price. Until Disney starts to see profit decrease along with revenue, they won't make a change. To force Disney to bring the parks back the Disney Loyalist must go to the Window and say " I am mad as heck and I am not going to take it anymore. Till that Day the Disney Greed Committee will continue to chip away at your vacation until they reach what I call the Pre$$er Principle. Which is point were so many cuts have taken place that people stop going.

I like Disney, but Universal gives me more bang for my buck and gives me the entertainment me and my family desire. In other words your park costs to much and does not entertain me as does the other.

Ah yes the last time I went to my park I took a nice boat ride, went right through the gate. Showed my hotel pass and did not wait on any lines to ride Kick butt rides like Spiderman, Men in Black, Hulk, Duelling Dragons, Bilge Rat Barges, Dudley Do Right, Jurasic Park, and T3 Several time. Paid less for admission and Paid about the rack rate for all-Stars at the Portofino Resort.

 

[Testtrack321]

I can go to my local Kings Dominion and get 'bang for my buck' with Hypersonic XLC and Volcano. I can go to a discount store and get 'bang for the buck'. But when I go to Disney, I don't get bang for the buck. Why? You can't get quality and a cheep deal. You are obsessed with the fact Universal gives it to you, but saddly it dosn't. You pay $50 for each park. I go to Universal and find that Jaws, ET, and BttF is closed because of techincal problems, I don't find a big 'bang for my buck.' Those 'high quality shows' such as Barney Live! and the Nickelodeon tour obviously give me more 'bang for my buck' compared to Beauty and the Beast and the Little Mermade shows (note sarcasm).

When it comes down to it, Disney has a overall complete feeling to it while Universal seems like a urban complex with parking structures and the likes.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Patch'sD
Closes at 6:00 PM, does not send packages back to your room. Opens some rides late and closes them early, has less shows and lets you gamble on when a firework show will be, but expects you pay the same ammount or more.

Hmmm, is this the same park that is open an hour later then your park during Spring Break, and other then that week maintains the same hours as yours? Is this the same park that has a daily parade every day and fireworks everynight? Hmm, Fantasy in the Sky every night at my park, don't see any fireworks at your park. Hmm, I don't see your park offering a parade all year round or a night-time show or fireworks. Hmm, at last check I could still have packages delivered to my room. All of the shows were still operating and all attractions were still operating with the exception of those either in rehab or the CoP or the Timekeeper. I don't see any rides closing early or opening later either. At last check in one of area of the resort Future World at Epcot closes at 7, yet the most popular attractions stay open two hours later. Hmm... interesting how things work out like that. Next time you should do some better research.

 

[HauntedMansionFan]

Originally posted by Patch'sD
Paid less for admission

I don't see how that is possible. $50 for a one day admission to Disney, $51.95 for a one day admission to Universal. $1.95 might not seem like a lot of money, but that is a bottled water or soda. A Disney 4 day hopper costs $192 allowing you access to all 4 parks, while Universal is $89.95 for 5 days giving you access to two parks and CityWalk. So while the Universal ticket is cheaper, the days expire, meaning that if you go to Universal on days 1 and 2, then skip three, go back for 4, and skip 5, you lose the other two days. Any unused days on a Disney hopper never expires. What I also find amusing is that I have to pay an additional $34.95 for the after 5 pm Mardi Gras stuff. Seems kind of expensive for some parades and beads, I get a parade included with my Disney admission. Even after-hours Disney events aren't this expensive, last October I went to the Halloween party there, paid $26.95 for the ticket.

 

[All Aboard]

What I also find amusing is that I have to pay an additional $34.95 for the after 5 pm Mardi Gras stuff.

I agree that it seems high for what you get. But, I think it is the reduced admission after 5pm on Mardi Gras nights.

In other words, if you have paid admission (hopper, 1 day, AP, whatever) you don't get hustled out of the park at 5pm only to have to pay more to get back in (like MNSSHP or MVMCP.)

Rather, you just stay in the park you've already paid for. The park closes at 8 or 9 for everyone, but you can pay the reduced price if you only want to be there for Mardi Gras, the parade and the concert.

I'm not sure that's perfectly clear the way I explained it. I hope it made sense.

 

[raidermatt]

First off I don't care if your park is better than mine.

Neither do I. You said you didn't get why others recognized cuts but still went to WDW. I gave you an explanation.

You my friend are paying more for less service.

Yes, I am. But its still the best value for MY money. Whether its more or less than it used to be is irrelevant when it comes to where I am going to vacation TODAY. That doesn't mean others haven't been pushed over the line to thinking WDW is not the best choice for them.

To force Disney to bring the parks back the Disney Loyalist must go to the Window and say " I am mad as heck and I am not going to take it anymore.

I do not visit Disney out of loyalty...I visit because it remains one of the best options for my family.

That said, you are giving me and the few others posting on this thread FAR too much credit. Everybody has a breaking point. A point at which they say, "You know what? I'd rather go to Universal for a few days this year." Or Hawaii. Or Wash DC. Or Yellowstone. Whatever.

The fact that I have not reached my breaking point does not mean I am unable to recognize that others have.

There are others here who go to WDW much less frequently than they used to. I can also say that my last trip to DL was in August of 2001, and if DCA had been up to Disney standards, I can pretty much guarantee I would have been back by now, but I haven't.

Till that Day the Disney Greed Committee will continue to chip away at your vacation until they reach what I call the Pre$$er Principle. Which is point were so many cuts have taken place that people stop going.

Nobody is arguing with you. In fact, many point to attendance figures as proof. But we don't choose our vacation destinations based on some philosophical belief. We pick the best places for ourselves and for our families. Again, that doesn't preclude us from discussing the direction Disney (or Universal, or whoever) is taking.

I like Disney, but Universal gives me more bang for my buck and gives me the entertainment me and my family desire. In other words your park costs to much and does not entertain me as does the other.

That's great. No problem. Reverse the names and I could say the same to you. But that has nothing to do with market share and whether Disney is making good business decisions.

Ah yes the last time I went to my park I took a nice boat ride, went right through the gate. Showed my hotel pass and did not wait on any lines to ride Kick butt rides like Spiderman, Men in Black, Hulk, Duelling Dragons, Bilge Rat Barges, Dudley Do Right, Jurasic Park, and T3 Several time. Paid less for admission and Paid about the rack rate for all-Stars at the Portofino Resort.

Great. Works for you.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Last time at US, we sat for 37 minutes on ET, listening to the same stupid sound bite over and over. When we FINALLY got off the ride we received one free head-of-the-line pass. WOW, pixie dust was just a spewing !

We went on BttF because years earlier we thought it was great- better then Star Tours by far. But US "updated" the ride. Basically they boosted the hydraulic pressure so high the car jerked so violantly the three older ladies behind us couldn't get out without assistance- we didn't wait around to see what became of them, but they were extremely upset.

We will be spending a week in May doing IOA/US, SW, WnWild, basically all things not Disney. We will be staying off-site. I'm curious to know how much I'm going to like all those on-site guests hopping off a ride then running right back on ahead of me. I wonder if it will make me appriciate FP a little more.

But I do love that great show they have every nite: The mountain, the dragon,the princess barges....oh wait, that's MGM. Nevermind.

 

[ChrisFL]

Originally posted by KNWVIKING
Last time at US, we sat for 37 minutes on ET, listening to the same stupid sound bite over and over. When we FINALLY got off the ride we received one free head-of-the-line pass. WOW, pixie dust was just a spewing !

We went on BttF because years earlier we thought it was great- better then Star Tours by far. But US "updated" the ride. Basically they boosted the hydraulic pressure so high the car jerked so violantly the three older ladies behind us couldn't get out without assistance- we didn't wait around to see what became of them, but they were extremely upset.

We will be spending a week in May doing IOA/US, SW, WnWild, basically all things not Disney. We will be staying off-site. I'm curious to know how much I'm going to like all those on-site guests hopping off a ride then running right back on ahead of me. I wonder if it will make me appriciate FP a little more.

But I do love that great show they have every nite: The mountain, the dragon,the princess barges....oh wait, that's MGM. Nevermind.

I was wondering how long it would take for this to turn into a mud-slinging fest

 

[Testtrack321]

By the looks of things, you were pivatal part of it starting.

 

[DaveO]

People are going to see what they want to. No one on these boards is objective. I think if you were to look at both resorts objectively then the both have the same number of pluses and minuses.

They both have great rides, shows, attractions. Both have crapy ones.

But anyone who says US/IOA does not have the same cuts as WDW duriing the slow down in the economy at certain times are just plain wrong. I saw them when I visited during the slow season a while back. Same as Disney only parts of parks open, resteraunts closed, and attractions just plain closed.

I am not saying this is right for either park to do or that it makes it OK for Disney to do 'because the other guy is doing it'.

My point is that both resorts have thier followings but both resorts are make the same cuts. There are just not 100s of discussion boards on US/IOA that tear apart every press realease, cut and rumour. Also the fact that IOA is still in its infacy from a product life cycle perspective gives it an edge with some consumers as well.

One final note US/IOA is NOT expanding from my understanding they are replacing old rides - isn't that what everyone complains that Disney does - where is the outcry on IOA/US management? At least Disney has Everest/FM coming (sorry could not resist a partisan comment ... )

Proud to be an American - God Bless our troops

Dave O.

 

[KNWVIKING]

Wow, two truthful events I experienced, one honest concern I have about FotL priviledges and one itsy, bitsy show dig, and you call that mud slinging ?? Amazing.

 

[eclipseSD]

Immediate FOTL priviledges are for staying onsite at Universal. I am staying onsite at both US and WDW.

I don't care if someone gets really annoyed that I waited 5 minutes when they waited 2 hours. They had the chance of staying onsite. I took advantage of it. My gain, their loss.

FOTL/Express is the one system I feel Universal has Disney beat by at least 25%