Has Anyone Tried to Use Points from Their Resale Contract to Book at Restricted Resorts (Riviera, Fort Wilderness, etc.)?

[juliebee]

The ability for some owners to be able to use resale points at a restricted resorts RIV/CFW/VDL is also concerning from a renting standpoint. Just imagine renting a reservation from an owner and then some audit occurs and Disney realizes this is an improper reservation? That could really mess up a renter's plans if this error goes unchecked for a while and then suddenly is found. I'm a resale only owner and can't even see the restricted resorts, so although this doesn't directly impact me, it impacts the integrity of the DVC system so it's concerning to me.

 

[Sandisw]

The ability for some owners to be able to use resale points at a restricted resorts RIV/CFW/VDL is also concerning from a renting standpoint. Just imagine renting a reservation from an owner and then some audit occurs and Disney realizes this is an improper reservation? That could really mess up a renter's plans if this error goes unchecked for a while and then suddenly is found. I'm a resale only owner and can't even see the restricted resorts, so although this doesn't directly impact me, it impacts the integrity of the DVC system so it's concerning to me.

That is where I am at. Remember when all those VGC rooms showed up, people booked, and then found out it was a mistake and had the room canceled.

IMO, the system needs to work correctly and when it’s not, DVC needs to know, or as owners, we need to be told it’s a change to the rules…like what happened when the transfer rules were changed.

 

[Tatebeck]

Since there are so many reports of "ghost" contracts showing that have been sold off years ago I am thinking the system isn't able to recognize the sale/contract date properly on resale contracts so it's not locking anything post 2019 from these restricted resorts.

This isn't quite the exact problem. I know because some of my contracts didn't show up when I did my testing. It seems to be a secondary issue where it is able to determine purchase date and ignore non-grandfathered contracts that have points left, but not those that don't.

So my contracts that have points left don't show up for booking restricted resorts, but the contracts that are out of points show up for booking, but then you have to borrow points in order to use them as part of the booking. There it is, my secret is out

I never meant to open this can of worms! lol

 

[Sandisw]

This isn't quite the exact problem. I know because some of my contracts didn't show up when I did my testing. It seems to be a secondary issue where it is able to determine purchase date and ignore non-grandfathered contracts that have points left, but not those that don't.

So my contracts that have points left don't show up for booking restricted resorts, but the contracts that are out of points show up for booking, but then you have to borrow points in order to use them as part of the booking. There it is, my secret is out

I never meant to open this can of worms! lol

It actually may be related because the contracts that I am showing in my account are not ones I own!!!

So, it looks like I have 5 contracts in my Dec UY when I own only three!

And they show up as options to choose for booking all resorts…and one of those was a contract I purchased post 2019.

It would even let me borrow points from it, except it shows 0 points…presumably because I don’t own it, but it still giving me the option as though it is.

The point is that this is really really messed up and nothing like I have ever seen with the website.

 

[Tatebeck]

It actually may be related because the contracts that I am showing in my account are not ones I own!!!

So, it looks like I have 5 contracts in my Dec UY when I own only three!

And they show up as options to choose for booking all resorts…and one of those was a contract I purchased post 2019.

Now, I didn’t see if it would let me borrow anything…and I wouldn’t attempt because they are not my contracts.

The point is that this is really really messed up and nothing like I have ever seen with the website.

Right, it is definitely really messed up right now.

But it's not that the system can't recognize non-grandfathered contracts. It definitely still can, as long as they still have points. For some reason it is only ignoring the rules for the contracts that are out of points. For example my BWV contract doesn't show up for booking (it still has points) but all of my others that are out of points do show up for booking restricted resorts. I borrowed a couple points from my AKV contract while making a booking and it worked.

So the purchase dates aren't being completely ignored, just under certain circumstances.

 

[intamin]

That is where I am at. Remember when all those VGC rooms showed up, people booked, and then found out it was a mistake and had the room canceled.

IMO, the system needs to work correctly and when it’s not, DVC needs to know, or as owners, we need to be told it’s a change to the rules…like what happened when the transfer rules were changed.

Yeup. That is exactly what I'm saying. Hopefully this one's repercussions aren't as bad since obviously VGC requires much different travel plans than WDW and it's probably easier for people to pivot from one WDW resort to another but it's an issue that needs to be resolved immediately. The longer they wait, the worse it will get.

 

[PolyRob]

Yeup. That is exactly what I'm saying. Hopefully this one's repercussions aren't as bad since obviously VGC requires much different travel plans than WDW and it's probably easier for people to pivot from one WDW resort to another but it's an issue that needs to be resolved immediately. The longer they wait, the worse it will get.

VDH!!! Imagine borrowing and booking that

 

[AstroBlasters]

VDH!!! Imagine borrowing and booking that

VDH having 7m availability…..

 

[intamin]

VDH having 7m availability…..

 

[JackosinDIS]

They can’t just change the rules without officially changing the rules.

So, they do have the ability to remove restrictions but they have actually update the documents to do so…if not, it’s a violation of my DVC resort agreement as a RIV owner, which specifically states that resale points since 2019 are restricted.

And, don’t flame me, but yes, I have contacted DVC that it’s a concern for me.

To be fair, it’s a breach of everyone’s resort agreement, not just RIV owners.

One way or the other it’s needs to be fixed. I’m really not sure whether they are treating this a a big issue - there does not seem to be any buzz about the problems on other DVC groups other than the website running slowly and people getting Rex occasionally. Are they even aware?

I would rather know what rules we are playing by and have the ability to use points correctly. It’s not inspiring great confidence in the system at the moment!

 

[DCL58]

Ok, all of the resorts that I have ever owned are showing up as my home resorts. And I just modified a booking for a couple weeks from now to Riveria. And it used resale points - the rule never even crossed my mind since the system let me modify! But reading this thread has me wondering if DVC will cancel the booking. I never would have given up my Boulder ridge stay if I had thought about the resale issue.

And the modification process made me borrow too many points - when I had points available in my use year. I called member services and told them that the system forced me to borrow too many points - she apologized and put the points back.

Really weird things going on. Wonder if I will have a place to stay before our upcoming cruise.

 

[AstroBlasters]

Ok, all of the resorts that I have ever owned are showing up as my home resorts. And I just modified a booking for a couple weeks from now to Riveria. And it used resale points - the rule never even crossed my mind since the system let me modify! But reading this thread has me wondering if DVC will cancel the booking. I never would have given up my Boulder ridge stay if I had thought about the resale issue.

And the modification process made me borrow too many points - when I had points available in my use year. I called member services and told them that the system forced me to borrow too many points - she apologized and put the points back.

Really weird things going on. Wonder if I will have a place to stay before our upcoming cruise.

But, she didn’t force you to cancel the whole reservation…..

I think the difference between this and what happened at VGC is that VGC didn’t have the actual rooms available….

The rooms that you are booking are actually available…. it’s just treating your resale points as grandfathered points….

Maybe this is a Gorbachev Berlin Wall moment with resale points…. but probably not….

 

[Sandisw]

Ok, all of the resorts that I have ever owned are showing up as my home resorts. And I just modified a booking for a couple weeks from now to Riveria. And it used resale points - the rule never even crossed my mind since the system let me modify! But reading this thread has me wondering if DVC will cancel the booking. I never would have given up my Boulder ridge stay if I had thought about the resale issue.

And the modification process made me borrow too many points - when I had points available in my use year. I called member services and told them that the system forced me to borrow too many points - she apologized and put the points back.

Really weird things going on. Wonder if I will have a place to stay before our upcoming cruise.

It certainly sounds like the system is messed up but my guess is that even for MS it’s not showing the restriction because it’s opened it up…

I personally would not have risked using restricted points for RIv, because once this is fixed, you may lose it.

But that’s up to DVC to work that out but as I shared, this to me is a big deal…just like it would if the system all of a sudden stopped enforcing home resort bookings.

Good luck.

 

[AstroBlasters]

It certainly sounds like the system is messed up but my guess is that even for MS it’s not showing the restriction because it’s opened it up…

I personally would not have risked using restricted points for RIv, because once this is fixed, you may lose it.

But that’s up to DVC to work that out but as I shared, this to me is a big deal…just like it would if the system all of a sudden stopped enforcing home resort bookings.

Good luck.

This is nothing like the system not allowing home resort booking.

Lots of resale points were grandfathered in to be able to be used at RIV…. this just accidentally expands that pool at 0-7m…. if someone books with 11-7m home resort window then they are only competing with other RIV owners.

This reminds me of when you said you didn’t want PolyT because it was not restricted…. you seem to like restricted resorts…

Which is fine, I am on record wishing that Grand Cal was restricted!

So I am not saying that you are wrong to want more availability at your preferred resort and with your restricted resale RIV points within the 0-7m window…. IMO it’s just not like losing the home resort window….

 

[Sandisw]

This is nothing like the system not allowing home resort booking.

Lots of resale points were grandfathered in to be able to be used at RIV…. this just accidentally expands that pool at 0-7m…. if someone books with 11-7m home resort window then they are only competing with other RIV owners.

This reminds me of when you said you didn’t want PolyT because it was not restricted…. you seem to like restricted resorts…

Which is fine, I am on record wishing that Grand Cal was restricted!

So I am not saying that you are wrong to want more availability at your preferred resort and with your restricted resale RIV points within the 0-7m window…. IMO it’s just not like losing the home resort window….

I never said it didn’t want PVB tower because it wasn’t restricted

I said I didn’t want it as part of the same association because I don’t like the current studios and don’t want to compete

Let’s be clear…using points that are ineligible for a resort is the exact same thing as a system issue that would be allowing people to use non home resort points during the home resort period.

Restricted points are currently not supposed to be eligible for RiV, VDH and CFW.

I am indifferent to restrictions. But, the system should not be allowing this unless it’s a rule change.

And if it’s a rule change, that is fine but then it needs to be officially updated, which I shared several times is what I have asked DVC to clarify…

Your take is that people who are now booking RiV or other resorts with restricted points is okay? Why?

It has nothing to do with availability per se but that’s not the point, which you seem to be missing in why I see this as an issue.

The system is broken…its giving me contracts I don’t own…how do I know the resale contract I have aren’t showing in the previous owners accounts?

Not sure why you are making this personal to me. We all should be a bit concerned that the system has this many issues after last weeks updates.

Again, if I knew my points are ineligible and went ahead and booked anyway, I certainly couldn’t be upset if DVC cancels it later.

 

[AstroBlasters]

To be fair, it’s a breach of everyone’s resort agreement, not just RIV owners.

One way or the other it’s needs to be fixed. I’m really not sure whether they are treating this a a big issue - there does not seem to be any buzz about the problems on other DVC groups other than the website running slowly and people getting Rex occasionally. Are they even aware?

I would rather know what rules we are playing by and have the ability to use points correctly. It’s not inspiring great confidence in the system at the moment!

If it only impacts non-grandfathered resale points that are attempting to book at RIV, VDH, and CFW….the how is that a breach of everyone’s resort agreement?

If I only had direct points or resale points that were purchased before Jan 2019 then there would be no material change…. right?

So…. Is there an impact for the majority of points in the system?

There is definitely an impact to RIV, VDH, and CFW resale points in the system…. because they are still restricted to their home resort and those points are now impacted with lower inventory from 0-7m (which is material).

But this seems to be a glitch that is beneficial for the overwhelming majority of the membership at the expense of RIV, VDH, and CFW owners who want book within 0-7m….

 

[AstroBlasters]

I never said it didn’t want PVB tower because it wasn’t restricted

I said I didn’t want it as part of the same association because I don’t like the current studios and don’t want to compete

Let’s be clear…using points that are ineligible for a resort is the exact same thing as a system issue that would be allowing people to use non home resort points during the home resort period.

Restricted points are currently not supposed to be eligible for RiV, VDH and CFW.

I am indifferent to restrictions. But, the system should not be allowing this unless it’s a rule change.

And if it’s a rule change, that is fine but then it needs to be officially updated, which I shared several times is what I have asked DVC to clarify…

Your take is that people who are now booking RiV or other resorts with restricted points is okay? Why?

It has nothing to do with availability per se but that’s not the point, which you seem to be missing in why I see this as an issue.

The system is broken…its giving me contracts I don’t own…how do I know the resale contract I have aren’t showing in the previous owners accounts?

Not sure why you are making this personal to me. We all should be a bit concerned that the system has this many issues after last weeks updates.

Again, if I knew my points are ineligible and went ahead and booked anyway, I certainly couldn’t be upset if DVC cancels it later.

I never pondered different associations and not restricted because no one ever brought that up as being a possibility.

I always equated you wanting separate associates as wanting it to be restricted because that was really the only option.

I agree that we should be concerned that the website is not working correctly!

For the record, my “shoo shoo” comment was made in playful jest… like the overwhelmingly majority of my comments on this board.

 

[Sandisw]

If it only impacts non-grandfathered resale points that are attempting to book at RIV, VDH, and CFW….the how is that a breach of everyone’s resort agreement?

If I only had direct points or resale points that were purchased before Jan 2019 then there would be no material change…. right?

So…. Is there an impact for the majority of points in the system?

There is definitely an impact to RIV, VDH, and CFW resale points in the system…. because they are still restricted to their home resort and those points are now impacted with lower inventory from 0-7m (which is material).

But this seems to be a glitch that is beneficial for the overwhelming majority of the membership at the expense of RIV, VDH, and CFW owners who want book within 0-7m….

It’s a breach of the agreement because the agreement states that the points bought resale after 2019 are not eligible to trade via BVTC to the restricted resorts.

DVC can absolutely get rid of it by updating that agreement, which we all know can happen, but they still need to do that officially.

Hence my contact to DVC. Is this a change? Because if it is, then all owners should be made aware of it and not it being discovered on the fly.

ETA: Just to clarify…this is about holding DVC to their responsibility to make sure they do things based on the contract…just like the point charts and any other decisions they want to make.

 

[AstroBlasters]

It’s a breach of the agreement because the agreement states that the points bought resale after 2019 are not eligible to trade via BVTC to the restricted resorts.

DVC can absolutely get rid of it by updating that agreement, which we all know can happen, but they still need to do that officially.

Hence my contact to DVC. Is this a change? Because if it is, then all owners should be made aware of it and not it being discovered on the fly.

It is definitely a manure show… I will give you that.

 

[JackosinDIS]

it only impacts non-grandfathered resale points that are attempting to book at RIV, VDH, and CFW….the how is that a breach of everyone’s resort agreement?

As above, everyone’s resort agreement states that post 2019 resale points cannot be used to book restricted resorts. So it breaches the terms of everyone’s agreement with DVC.

However, I agree with you that it only adversely affects certain owners and would be beneficial for others. A breach nevertheless (although post 2019 resale owners unlikely to complain about it)