Harry Potter Complete Book Spoiler Thread

[WDW_DV]

A bezoar is a stone taken from the stomach of a goat and it will save you from most poisons.

Perhaps this explains Aberforth Dumbledore's fascination with goats...

 

[SueM in MN]

Perhaps this explains Aberforth Dumbledore's fascination with goats...

 

[Jennasis]

Just curious..why are all so many referred to by their last names in the books?

Lupin (isn't it Remus Lupin?)
Hagrid (Rubeus)
Tonks (at least she gave a reason)
Malfoy
etc etc...

Is it a British thing? When I was in grade school and college I ALWAYS referred to my teachers as Mr/Mrs or Professor So-and-So even when talking about them.

 

[ladycollector]

I waited till I re-read #5 before I started book 6, and I just got finished with it. It was spoiled for me (HOURS before I finished), but I still enjoyed it.

I cried my eyes out. I was a wreck! I can only hope that Dumbledore and Snape had made some sort of agreement and as Dumbledore was sitting there, he and Snape were communicating in some way with leglimency. (We all know they are both accomplished leglimens) I can just hear Dumbledore telling Snape through his thoughts, "do it, do as I say Severus." Which would also explain why Snape was so angry with Harry for calling him a coward. Killing the headmaster would not have been an easy thing if Snape was really on Dumbledore's side, and carrying out his wishes would definately not be cowardly. I want to hate Snape, but I can't help but think that he's playing both sides, but is really Dumbledore's man. Also, the argument Hagrid overheard could have been Dumbledore telling Snape what needed to be done if it ever came down to Draco/Snape/Harry/Unbreakable Vow. We shall see. My eyes still hurt from crying.

Don't know why so many are called by their last names.. I have to say I rather like it though.

 

[Rajah]

Grindelwald - A Dark Wizard defeated by Dumbledore in 1945.

Okay did more research - it's mentioned on a Chocolate Frog card in Book 1.

That's pretty much all the mention of Grindelwald.

Goodness. Anyone else feel like Hermione in the library trying to track down all these clues? LOL!

Good work!

 

[Rajah]

I just finished that Dumbledore is Not Dead site, and totally agree. I'd had the same or similar thoughts about all but the wand -- hadn't thought about the wand, or caught the mention of the rites done with a wand on a wizard's death in that song.

I still say he's not actually dead.

 

[Sirius]

Happy Birthday Harry

 

[Disney Dave]

I came up with this interesting theory about Snape. Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, and he did. Now Snape has proved his "loyalty" to Voldemort, what if Dumbledore asked Snape to kill him, instead of Malfoy, so Snape would prove his loyalty, and then Voldemort would fully trust him. So Snape would still be giving the Order information. And then I have to wonder if it was Snape who took the horcrux, to keep it safe...

And about Dumbledore dying...we all knew it had to happen sometime, or else Harry would not be able to fight the final battle on his own. It's like we all knew Yoda had to die in Star Wars, and it's the same with Harry Potter.

 

[Mish19]

Also, someone pointed out that after the Avada Kedavra curse, DD did fall off the tower (which would have killed him), but no one actually saw him fall all the way, so we don't know for sure. The book says, on page 596

And, when Harry finally does see DD's body on the ground, here's the description from page 608:

I don't necessarily think DD is alive, but these things are lind of thought provoking.

I don't have the book in front of me but DD was also described as appearing to hang in the air before he fell out of sight. Could someone had performed the spell to stop the acceleration of his fall? Didn't DD perform that spell (something momentum) when Harry was falling off his broom at the Quidditch match from the Dementor attack?

 

[Professor Mouse]

I just finished that Dumbledore is Not Dead site, and totally agree. I'd had the same or similar thoughts about all but the wand -- hadn't thought about the wand, or caught the mention of the rites done with a wand on a wizard's death in that song.

I still say he's not actually dead.

I am not sure. I also looked at this site and used the arguements with my older DD. She disagrees and is convinced that Dumbledore is dead. There are clues that will give JKR the opportunity to bring Dumbledore back if she wants to.

 

[SueM in MN]

I don't have the book in front of me but DD was also described as appearing to hang in the air before he fell out of sight. Could someone had performed the spell to stop the acceleration of his fall? Didn't DD perform that spell (something momentum) when Harry was falling off his broom at the Quidditch match from the Dementor attack?

yes to both.
The description of DD is on page 596 of book 6:

A jet of green light shot from the end of Snape's wand and hit DD directly in the chest. Harry's scream of horror never left him; silent and unmoving, he was forced to watch as DD was blasted into the air. For a split second, he seemed to hang suspended beneath the shining skull, and then fell slowly backward, like a great rag doll, over the battlements and out of sight.

The DD is not dead site also mentioned the "hang in the air" aspect of DD's death. It does not match with all the other descriptions of others who are hit with the AC curse. They all were hit and immediately fell down; none of the "slow motion fall" like happened to DD. And JKRowling uses "blast" and "flash" to describe the green light in the other killings - when I think of those, I think of something different than a "jet".

One thing I had forgotten about from the 5th book that is posted on that Dumbledore is not dead site, was that Harry tried to use an Unforgiveable Curse (which Avada Kadavra is one of) on Bellatrix. He said the words, but it didn't work. Bellatrix more or less laughed at him and said you had to really mean it in order for an Unforgiveable curse to work.

Hatred rose in Harry such that he had never known before. He flung himself out from behind the fountain and bellowed "Crucio!" Bellatrix screamed. The spell had knocked her off her feet, but she did not writhe or shriek with pain as Neville had -- she was already on her feet again ... "Never used an Unforgivable Curse before, have you, boy?" she yelled. "You need to mean them, Potter! You need to really want to cause pain -- to enjoy it ..." (OotP pg 810)

So, his curse caused her a little pain, but not excruciating pain like Bellatrix caused Neville. Could Snape have caused something short of death with a AK curse that was not meant (especially since DD had already taken a potion that at least weakened him and might have caused the illusion of death)?

Other things about the potion in the cave, DD is described in ways that sound like sleep on page 571. When he first drank, his eyes shut, then it goes on:

In silence DD drank 3 gobletsful of the potion. Then, halway through the 4th goblet, he staggered and fell forward against the basin. his eyes were still closed, his breathing heavy.
"Professor DD?" said Harry, his voice strained. "Can you hear me?"
DD did not answer. His face was twitching as though he was deeply asleep, but dreaming a horrible dream. His grip on the goblet was slackening; the potion was about to spill from it...."

He kept his eyes shut thru the drinking process. After Harry got water for him (and at the point where Harry was feeling like the inferati would get him, DD woke.

 

[snoopy]

I am not sure. I also looked at this site and used the arguements with my older DD. She disagrees and is convinced that Dumbledore is dead. There are clues that will give JKR the opportunity to bring Dumbledore back if she wants to.

My son agrees with your daughter. I showed him the Dumbledore is Not Dead site, and he still feels he's dead. I think he's afraid to get his hopes up and I sort of feel the same way.

 

[Jennasis]

Dumbledore is likely dead...in the sense that he physically won't be around. However I m sure his role in the series is not finished and we will HEAR from him again.

Snape on the other hand...I agree that he is likely still working for the Order of the Phoenix and killed Dumbledore on DD's orders.

More important than these questions are the location of the remaining 2 Horcruxes. The locket is either still with Kreacher (I think we can probably all agree that the locket was Black's), or pawned off by Mundungus Fletcher.

The last HOrcrux...well it would Suck (note the capital "S") if Harry is the final Horcrux, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Can a living creature be a Horcrux and be unaware of it? Would Harry know if he had another soul floating around in there?

When you create a Horcrux (when you kill someone), how exactly does it work? Voldemort killed Lilly and then stuck his soul into Harry? Doesn't quite make sense since in doing so (or attacking Harry) Voldemort was nearly killed himself. So the spell to make Harry a HOrcrux either backfired or didn't work OR...it worked so well that Voldemort left barely enough soul in himself to stay alive (something he didn't anticipate would happen). He "over-dosed" on Horcruxes and weakened himself terribly?

So very convoluted.

Perhaps...just a thought...was DD the final Horcrux? And DD knew he had to die to allow Harry to kill off Voldemort? DD IS a major figure at Hogwarts. It would make sense for Voldemort to want to make a Horcrux out of him.

Also still wondering why DD's hadn was "dead".

 

[Deb in IA]

He "over-dosed" on Horcruxes and weakened himself terribly?

So very convoluted.

Perhaps...just a thought...was DD the final Horcrux? And DD knew he had to die to allow Harry to kill off Voldemort? DD IS a major figure at Hogwarts. It would make sense for Voldemort to want to make a Horcrux out of him.

Also still wondering why DD's hadn was "dead".

You know, I think that glowing green potion WAS the Horcrux -- not the fake locket. Dumbledore had to drink the potion, and by doing so, he took into himself a part of Voldemort's soul -- THAT'S why Snape had to kill him, to destroy that Horcrux.

 

[SueM in MN]

The book didn't go into the Horcrux process very much, but it does seem like something that is a complicted piece of magic and not something that could be easily or accidentally done. It also sounds like the horcrux would be carefully chosen to be something the maker felt he/she would have complete control of (or at least access to) and the item was special to them in some way. The things we already know about and where they are hidden have rather personal meanings to LV.

Thinking along those lines, making a horcrux out of something like a potion that who knows who would drink doesn't make any sense. The potion in the cave was well protected, but LV would have no control over who drank it. And, if someone did drink it, would he even know who drank it so he could find them again? I think not, since he does not appear to know that DD already destroyed some of the horcruxes. Besides that, the process of creating a horcrux seems to involve causing a death at the time of creation; not something that could be done with a potion sitting around waiting for someone to drink it.
And if you made someone your horcrux, what happens if they die, your horcrux goes with them? Or they make personal decisions that damage your soul in them?

I think there are too many problems with a living horcrux (other than Nagini), Harry, his scar, or DD being a horcrux or an accidental horcrux being made. One of the other things to think about is that in the things LV and the Death Eaters have said about Harry in all the books to date, is that LV doesn't understand why Harry didn't die when LV did the Avada Kadavra curse on him. Not something he would be thinking about if he had intended to make Harry a horcrux. He would have wanted Harry to live a long time. Maybe in the next book, we will find out that one of both of Harry's parents were killed to "seal" a horcrux that is connected with Griffendore (after all they lived in Godric's Glen), but I think it will turn out that they were just killed because they had a son born at the right time to fit the prophesy.

I think the locket is just what the note says it was, a substitute that RAB (whoever that turns out to be) put in the place of the actual horcrux locket when it was stolen. The mystery is going to be who took the real locket, whether or not it was actually destroyed and if not, where the locket is now.

 

[ladycollector]

I highly doubt that there are any "accidental" horcruxes, but if that's your thing, that's your thing.

The way I understood it (condensed) was that when you killed someone, your soul split in half, inside you, and then you performed a spell to cast that split part of your soul into the item that was to become a horcrux.

 

[Figment22]

Happy Birthday Harry

Yes. And, to J.K. Rowling who celebrates her 40th birthday today!

 

[AmyA]

You know, I think that glowing green potion WAS the Horcrux -- not the fake locket. Dumbledore had to drink the potion, and by doing so, he took into himself a part of Voldemort's soul -- THAT'S why Snape had to kill him, to destroy that Horcrux.

I have been thinking this all along...that the liquid was the horcrux and not the locket.

 

[MickeyMonstersMom]

It doesn't follow the pattern DD's set up: first, LV created Horcruxes from artifacts that had some personal meaning to him. I don't see how he'd consider a particular potion or liquid that significant. Also, the letter inside the locket said that the "real" horcrux had been taken. It just seems more logical that it would be the locket (especially the locket at Grimmauld Place that couldn't be opened) than the potion that surrounded it. JMHO.

 

[ladycollector]

It doesn't follow the pattern DD's set up: first, LV created Horcruxes from artifacts that had some personal meaning to him. I don't see how he'd consider a particular potion or liquid that significant. Also, the letter inside the locket said that the "real" horcrux had been taken. It just seems more logical that it would be the locket (especially the locket at Grimmauld Place that couldn't be opened) than the potion that surrounded it. JMHO.

I agree.