Guides must give advice....

[ILIKEWDW]

You wanted your hand held and the guide to make a personal decision on your families vacation style. They are there to guide you through the process, but not make those decisions or to relate it to your personal lifestyle to the sale.

I never want or would like or expect somebody hold my hand through any purchase I have made or I will make. Also I would never want somebody else take decisions for me or my family, hahaha, just imagine that.

I think your expectations are unrealistic, maybe if your guide was your neighbor, maybe you'd get this type of service and the guide would be armed with enough information about you as a person, but otherwise, I just don't think it is possible. The guide will only know as much about you as you tell them, so if you don't forecast your vacation style, previous vacations, ages of your children, etc, they're only going to have limited information available to assist you in helping guide you through your purchase.

Once more, it appears that you are not reading my posts, I don´t expect anything from anybody, right?

I just try to wonder, because after reading some stories here I have known people going to resale looking for smaller contracts and people trying to cancel or resale big contracts. Ok?

So, once more here it goes my explanation about why I decided to make this new thread............... ready?

Well, I started this thread, because I can not understand why those guides (guides from the people resaling or canceling contracts) instead of trying to sell a big contract, just try to sell several smaller.

FYI. I have told my guide all my info, my children ages, my type of vacation, previous vacation, my preferences even the frequency.

 

[ILIKEWDW]

Surely you had the ability to ask the guide, "If we travel every other year, for a week, wouldn't half the points work?" Just because the purchaser doesn't have the presence of mind to ask the right questions at the moment, that is not a reason for the salesperson to assume things about their travel habits, especially after banking and borrowing was explained by the salesperson. The banking and borrowing topic should pretty much cover it, IMO.

Once more, and this is the third, , maybe the fourth:

This was not about purchasers, I said I understand we as purchasers have the responsability on what we buy.

That is why I am here on these threads, to learn more before buy.

So, this thread was just for wonder and try to understand why sales people don´t try to cover all the customer expectations instead of just try to sale "big".

I think they could sell more smaller contracts instead of a few big contracts that could be cancelled once the purchaser get more info about it.

 

[Brian Noble]

A good salesman will recognize when the "big sale" isn't going to happen, and cut his losses to try to sell something. An average salesman misses that crucial moment, and doesn't close any sale at all.

But, every last one of them is going to aim high to start with.

 

[tjkraz]

Your argument appears to be that a Guide would ultimately sell more total points by recommending smaller contracts to a larger number of people. If you always sell small, you need to close two 160-point sales to compensate for talking someone down from buying 320 points.

I guess the Guide would need to decide for him/herself which approach yields the best results.

Someone else used a car sales analogy and I think that's a good one. Even if you've chosen a model, you still need to decide whether to spend extra for the rear-seat DVD player and the heated seats.

Even though your Guide didn't specifically walk thru every iteration of point use with you, clearly you put the pieces together for yourself. Otherwise we wouldn't be having this discussion.

I think you're selling-short the intelligence level of buyers by assuming they need a Guide to tell them how the banking and borrowing rules can be used to minimize a purchase.

 

[Chuck S]

I think all we are asking is why you think it should be the salesman's responsibility to try to refer the buyer to smaller contracts, rather than the prospective buyer's responsibility to ask after the banking and borrowing is explained. Most folks (including you, it seems) feel the buyer should be the one making the decisions and asking the questions, not the seller. Just like when I buy a new car, I ask the salesman about specific features, and what is available. I describe what options I want to the salesman, then I pick a car from what is available based upon those features. The same with DVC, tell the salesman your specific needs and travel habits, then see what fits. It isn't the DVC salespersons job to make sure it fits, it is simply their job to present what is available, which I'm sure they do. They surely mention the minimum number of buy-in points required for an initial master contract.

 

[Technosavant]

The best salespeople aren't trying to sell everybody on the high cost plans/products. Reason being, they know that if they try that, they'll turn off a good chunk of folks who are likely to have bought something less expensive.

No, a good salesperson is going to first find out your wants/needs and suggest a range of products/plans that will meet those needs. Jumping off and trying to sell a childless young couple a 400 point DVC contract is just foolish. Unless they state plans to travel very often (at least once a year) and like to spend time in very luxurious circumstances, that's way beyond their needs.

Our Guide recognized us for what we were- people who like to travel in the off seasons and don't need a lot of room, but we like to enjoy good surroundings. The basic 160 point contract was plenty good enough, and he even told us that we would probably be quite happy with it, but also let us know that adding more points would become more expensive over time. We ended up sticking with the 160 points.

I'm sure there are some who try to sell big. I'm also sure that such Guides may sell a few bigger plans than normal, but they also miss out on selling the lower plans (not to mention selling the add-ons to those plans on down the road).

 

[Brian Noble]

Perhaps. But, once you have a sense for their income bracket, you'd certainly start by talking to them about a 1BR BLT MK view, for one week per year to get away from the snow and ice in early February, and how wonderful that might be---and that's "only" 333 points because they can travel in Dream season, "when the kids are in school."

After setting that up as the initial price point, you've got a lot of room to move, by either talking about dropping to a Lake view, dropping off a weekend night, dropping a season, considering a studio, etc. etc. etc.

The best salesmen figure out about where your ultimate price is likely to be, and then manage to stretch it in a variety of ways. They certainly don't willingly talk you down.

 

[janni518]

I think because it's Disney people hold them to a higher standard. Fair or not? I can see both sides of that.

We weren't pressured at all and were given all scenarios and options. I actually wish we'd been pressured a bit more as I think we need more points.

 

[Dean]

We MUST understand that sell timeshares is their work.

And also understand that WE, as buyers, have the responsability to investigate all about it before sing it.

Yes, I understand all that, but the thing I don´t understand is why, as guide´s work is sell contracts, why they don´t give to customer the option (and also the suggestion) to start with a minimum of points instead of alot.

I think on that after reading a case here where somebody bought a high amount of points and after reading this threads was thinking on cancel the contract to buy less points or buy resale.....

My case is another, I was told by my guide, as we are a family of six we must need a 2BR and for determinated season I will need a big amount. Ok, she told me about banking and borrowing, but she never said I must consider the frequency we go Disney, specially in the future when all kids will be grown up and I must think if going yearly to WDW will be ok for us.

So, maybe if we would not find these threads, where I discovered that I can buy less (a half is ok for me, now) and make a double or even a triple amount to stay even in peak, most expensive seasons, we wouldn´t decide to buy.

Because we were affraid of the future, of maybe get bored of traveling to WDW every year during the next 50 years ( I know it could be someone who never get bored yet, I know) or in middle of this unsure economic situation, who can have warranty to be able to travel the next year. I think these are uncertain times and we must be very carefully now, maybe later when times goes good again, we could think on bigger amounts, add-ons and more vacations.

Each sales person has their style and approach which they need to adjust within the guidelines of the sytem involved. The method that sells the most timeshares is the high pressure model. That is not within the acceptable approach for DVC so they have altered the model. Each guide then makes a judgement as to how to meld their style with the individual customer. They should and generally do take into account the needs and means of the family involved but ultimately they are trying to make a sale. They may recommend a large contract at one resort for one family and a smaller contract at a different resort for a different family. They may misjudge and cost themselves a sale, that is a risk they take each time out. That their approach and recommendation may have cost them your sale really isn't especially important as long as they meet the expectations of the system overall as a whole.

There are lots of ways to be honest and promote such sales but one doesn't need to be complete. Say you want OKW or SSR, they are not going to direct you to resale unless they don't have and can't get what you want in most instances. Or if you seem to be leaning to 400 points, they are not likely to suggest you do 200 now and add on later. Ultimately it is not their job to recomend what is best for you but to sell you something, often something you don't need or the item that is not truly the best for you. If it weren't for the buy her and use your points at any resort approach, HH and VB would have never sold out and SSR would be under half sold. Was that the best recommendation, it was for some but not for many. Not once since SSR started selling do I recall seeing a report where the first recommendation from a guide was to buy resale or wait list for a sold out resort, not good business even if it was often the best thing for the potential buyer.

 

[Dean]

The best salespeople aren't trying to sell everybody on the high cost plans/products. Reason being, they know that if they try that, they'll turn off a good chunk of folks who are likely to have bought something less expensive.

No, a good salesperson is going to first find out your wants/needs and suggest a range of products/plans that will meet those needs. Jumping off and trying to sell a childless young couple a 400 point DVC contract is just foolish. Unless they state plans to travel very often (at least once a year) and like to spend time in very luxurious circumstances, that's way beyond their needs.

I guess it depends on your definition of a good salesperson. If the definition is the one who sells the most points that are not later canceled, I'd tend to agree with you but with a slant. It's the one who can read you and twist you the best and make recommendations in that light that will hook each customer that will be the most likely to sell to you. They will make a judgement of what it takes to sell to YOU.

 

[ILIKEWDW]

I think all we are asking is why you think it should be the salesman's responsibility to try to refer the buyer to smaller contracts, rather than the prospective buyer's responsibility to ask after the banking and borrowing is explained.

I was not talking about responsibility, however as it is their job, it must be their responsibility to try to sell something (if a big sale does not work for you, just try to sell less) instead of loose the sale.

And, of course, I should emphatice about the responsability each buyer has to ASK all about before buying, specially when we are talking about thousand dollars, and thousand more coming with anual dues.

I was not trying to responsabilice anybody of lost sales, but at the end of the day the only responsible will be the seller.

Most folks (including you, it seems) feel the buyer should be the one making the decisions and asking the questions, not the seller. Just like when I buy a new car, I ask the salesman about specific features, and what is available. I describe what options I want to the salesman, then I pick a car from what is available based upon those features. The same with DVC, tell the salesman your specific needs and travel habits, then see what fits. It isn't the DVC salespersons job to make sure it fits, it is simply their job to present what is available, which I'm sure they do. They surely mention the minimum number of buy-in points required for an initial master contract.

And talking about cars, imagine that I go to a salesman and ask for a car, what would a good salesman do? First: ask me about what kind of car I am looking for, and ask if I have family, then he could offer me a SUV, if I am single, he can offer me a small car; he could ask about what for will the car be used, if I need it for a hard work, he could suggest a pick up, or if I want just to be transported, he can offer an economy one, and so.

I guess that would be a good salesman, because he will try to cover all my needs and to help me to take the best decision for ME.

AND ONCE MORE: I repeat that does not means he will take the decision for me............... I WILL and I MUST do it (that would be my responsability).

So at the end I will have the last word. But imagine I am looking for a pick up to be used at work, and he only offer me deluxe cars...... I know I can ask for a pick up, but the responsability for loose the sale would not be mine, but his. Because if he does not offer me what I am looking for, I could always go to buy from another seller.

And that matters, because if Disney is wanting to make money is too for our own happyness............... well, maybe just a small amount of all that money is destinated to new rides, new parks, new attractions, but I am sure we enjoy it. And we have done, because after going several times, I know the next time I go, I will find a new attraction.

 

[dburg30]

Well, I dont feel we were pressured or lead in some way or another, but we could've been. We looked at our 'home resort' AKV2 as a basis. My wife loves the animals and theming there. We also have nephews and neices that have children, so we know we'll be taking them sometimes. So we thought about if WE stay, what did we want? We want 1 week, Savannah view, 1 bedroom with the kitchen. That's 205 points. That's what we bought. Did we overbuy? Probably not because even if we dont go every year, I know I'll be doing some banking and borrowing to take their families every so often. I guess we'll see what happens

 

[Chuck S]

And talking about cars, imagine that I go to a salesman and ask for a car, what would a good salesman do? First: ask me about what kind of car I am looking for, and ask if I have family, then he could offer me a SUV, if I am single, he can offer me a small car; he could ask about what for will the car be used, if I need it for a hard work, he could suggest a pick up, or if I want just to be transported, he can offer an economy one, and so.

My case is another, I was told by my guide, as we are a family of six we must need a 2BR and for determinated season I will need a big amount. Ok, she told me about banking and borrowing, but she never said I must consider the frequency we go Disney, specially in the future when all kids will be grown up and I must think if going yearly to WDW will be ok for us.

A family of 6 would not fit into a small car. A family of 6 requires a two bedroom DVC unit. Your guide explained banking and borrowing. Showed you what it would take to stay every year. It is not a guides job to cut that potential sale in half. How many sales people and companies do you know that say "Oh, I think you should only buy half as much of our product?"

Probably not many, as they wouldn't be around too long.

While DVC sales may be sluggish right now due to the economy, DVC has historically "sold itself." And most people consider timeshare salespeople that come back with lower counter offers as "desperate to sell" or even "sleazy"...they compare that to the high pressure, disreputable timeshare salesmen that people are warned about. Certainly not a way Disney wishes to present DVC. How desperate would a guide look to most people if a family of 6 were originally offered enough points for a year, and said they'd think about it. Then the guide says, "Well how about this deal, then, come every other year for half the points?" if that fails, then comes back with "Come every third year for one-third of the points."...That really sounds sleazy to me. Only a step a way from "Let me get my sales manager, maybe I can get you a better deal."

 

[Family-of-4]

I wonder, if sales slow in this economy, will DVC actually have to reduce the minimum number of points for new members to below 160?

 

[ILIKEWDW]

It is not a guides job to cut that potential sale in half.

Well, that is what you think and it appears that the guides loosing sales also think like you. Because prefer to loose a sale instead of sell less.

And most people consider timeshare salespeople that come back with lower counter offers as "desperate to sell" or even "sleazy"...they compare that to the high pressure, disreputable timeshare salesmen that people are warned about. Certainly not a way Disney wishes to present DVC. How desperate would a guide look to most people if a family of 6 were originally offered enough points for a year, and said they'd think about it. Then the guide says, "Well how about this deal, then, come every other year for half the points?" if that fails, then comes back with "Come every third year for one-third of the points."...That really sounds sleazy to me. Only a step a way from "Let me get my sales manager, maybe I can get you a better deal."

I agree with you on that last point, that a guide offering to every people, must sound desperate for sell something. But that is why a guide, salesman (well, at least a good one) must ask FIRST the most posible trying to know what the client needs and wants.

To offer them the best for each. That is what I was talking about at the beginning, because even when the guide know, (I TOLD HER) that we don´t go yearly, she offered to us the complete cake, instead of the only pieces we need.

Can you understand that? Our guide only said, well, you are six, you want a nice view and the MK DVC resort, well you need this amount of points EVEN when she knows we go every other year................

And all that happened not in only one interview, but after some phone calls.

I AM NOT saying that guides must offer that option to ALL the people, but they MUST do it with people like us, who doesn´t go yearly.

 

[Brian Noble]

Yes, you go every other year now. But that's because you are paying cash for each stay! How expensive! The horror! It's so much better to be a Member so much less expensive that naturally you'll want to come every year!

Honestly, why can you not see that the Guide has no interest in selling you less if she can sell you more?

 

[Chuck S]

Yes, you go every other year now. But that's because you are paying cash for each stay! How expensive! The horror! It's so much better to be a Member so much less expensive that naturally you'll want to come every year!

Actually, I never thought of it that way. But by reading the boards, it seems many members are taking more trips than they would on cash. I know that we have, on average, doubled the number of trips from before we purchased.

Before DVC we were spending 7 nights annually in a tower room at the Contemporary. I found one of old receipts the other day. Today, we are able to stay more than twice as long in a DVC Studio for roughly what we paid for a tower in 1990, counting dues only. It didn't take long to save the amount of our initial $51 per point investment. And tower rooms today are almost twice what we paid in 1990.

 

[ILIKEWDW]

Yes, you go every other year now. But that's because you are paying cash for each stay! How expensive! The horror! It's so much better to be a Member so much less expensive that naturally you'll want to come every year!

Honestly, why can you not see that the Guide has no interest in selling you less if she can sell you more?

Well, first point, you are right, paying cash is to expensive, specially with people like us who want the best location, the best view, the best service, and all that costs alot, but thanks God we can pay cash (and until now it appears to be a so free way to vacation).

Number two, we go Disney every other year because we are living now outside the U.S. so, think a little about the transportation and you must understand.

Number three, the worst of all the story is that the seller knows we don´t live in the U.S. and that we just go every other year.

So, the number four is, YES, I know and I have understood it before you tell me, that she did not wanted to sell less.

But she will sell me less than she wanted, and all thanks to these threads, and to wonderful people here able to help who needs.

Sincerelly, thanks to all. And that was the reason to start this thread, to let others know....... so simple like that: try to give others what I have received.

I guess some has taken it personnally or as if I was a DVC oponent, or if I don´t like the guides that have been so good with them. But, I never generalize it, I was talking about "some" guides, not all guides.

So, that is not truth, I like Disney so much. DL was our first destiny in our honeymoon, and we go to WDW regularly.

I just hope this could help others and if any guide takes time to read this, just to let them know it could be easier to try to sell the best for the customer.

 

[Brian Noble]

Sorry, let me be clear---I was giving you the "hypothetical position of the Guide." Just because a guest currently comes only once every other year, doesn't mean the Guide won't try to (or can't) sell them on an annual trip scenario, by emphasizing the cheap lodging, and how much one might save.

Of course, for most families the loging is probably no more than half the total trip budget, and is probably often less. For my family of four, it costs roughly $1200 to fly down, $1000 for park tickets, and $800 for food for a week. The nightly pre-tax room rate would have to be north of $380 before lodging becomes more than half my trip cost. Naturally, the Guide is not going to mention this, either.

As I (and others) have said, the Guide's job is to accentuate the positive, and get you to stretch yourself in what you ultimately purchase.

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

We took the tour in 2002. Dh and I were very interested, but told our guide that we could not possibly need more than 100 points. He tried to convince us that we would want to come to Disney several times a year. He NEVER once mentioned the availability of resale contracts with less than 150 points. We bought resale 4 years later, and got 100 points.

Tammy