Guest Test of Magic Bands (Official Notice)

[rastuso]

What debate? If anyone posts anything outside of FP+ being the worst thing ever, they are lambasted for having a differing opinion. I have no problem with you or anyone else for that matter having concerns over what the future holds- I'm just choosing to try and see a different perspective, which is just as much my right as it is yours to be against it at this time.

If you want a board where anything remotely ANTI Disney is removed immediately, head over to TPR, just don't disagree with the mods on ANYTHING.

this thread has an excellent debate going on.

As for a staggered rollout, that could get ugly. Those getting FP+ and FP are hitting the jackpot, big time, but if all the resorts switch, and suddenly outnumber everyone else, being there without a magic band, or pre reservations, could make you VERY unlucky.

But I'm still afraid that will happen, at least for a while, or who know, maybe forever. Disney has yet to say non resort guests will have access to FP +, have they? I've only seen resort guests and APs mentioned.

Jason

 

[doconeill]

But I'm still afraid that will happen, at least for a while, or who know, maybe forever. Disney has yet to say non resort guests will have access to FP +, have they? I've only seen resort guests and APs mentioned.

Jason

Disney has not said resort guests at all. WDWMagic said it, and I believe they are mistaken.

Disney has said it is tied to your park ticket. They very specifically say that Magic Your Way and Annual Passholders will have a 60 day window. They say other types of tickets might have a different window.

 

[SmallWorld71]

Just because I'd like to know... on average, how many FastPasses do your families usually get in a day (not FP+)? I don't think my family ever had to get more than three.

In April, on an average attendance day we pulled the following FP's (3 separate days, we did not do DHS)

MK:
1. Space Mountain
2. Peter Pan
3. BTMRR
4. Splash Mountain
5. Dumbo (disconnected)
6. Barnstormer (disconnected)

AK:
Safari
Everest
Kali

Epcot:
Soarin
-Probably would have used one for Test Track, but we used single rider instead

So, 6, 3, and 1 respectively were needed to tour productively. Thing is, these were all for rides that had long waits (most around an hour). With FP plus, what are the chances that I can a time for these specific rides?

Anyway, I know next to nothing about FP+ so I figured I'd join in and maybe learn something. Can't wrap my head around how it could possible work. I was so happy that it wasn't out in time for our most recent trip.

 

[superdisneydork]

I had another interesting idea earlier, which I'm sure I'm not the first to have it, and I'm sure it was already posted here. I'd bet also that the masses have already ripped this idea apart Nevertheless, I'm curious what the current take is.

It seems weird that Disney would be testing with testers having FP+ and FP, since it gives a (seemingly) skewed perspective of how it will work. I'm now wondering though, has Disney ever said that FP Classic is going away? It's implied I know, and the machines only read magswipes, etc, etc, etc.... but all that means is that the current generation of machines is not going to be useful. Maybe they're intending to keep some version of FP Classic as the base system, with FP+ literally being the +, much like PP and PP+. Perhaps they're running the test this way as a way to approximate the new system. I have no doubts that all FPs, plus or not, will be pulled by app/kiosk and stored with the RFID media, but it may not mean the death of FP Classic, just an evolution.

That would be pretty good, FP+ for 60 days out, with strict limits (3 max, 1 park only, no duplicates) to prevent it from blowing the FP Classic pool right out of the water. I think that would be awesome.

Very unlikely and I've probably overlooked some obvious reason it can't happen. It's nice to think about though, a positive scenario, instead of all this 'the sky is falling' talk!

Matt

 

[rastuso]

Disney has not said resort guests at all. WDWMagic said it, and I believe they are mistaken.

Disney has said it is tied to your park ticket. They very specifically say that Magic Your Way and Annual Passholders will have a 60 day window. They say other types of tickets might have a different window.

But what does Magic Your Way mean? That goes back to my fears on another thread that older non expiring tickets, purchased before the "Magic Your Way" moniker, won't be FP+ eligible.

All I know is Disney seems to be being very careful to NOT say that FP+ is available to all guests.

Jason

 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

I had another interesting idea earlier, which I'm sure I'm not the first to have it, and I'm sure it was already posted here. I'd bet also that the masses have already ripped this idea apart Nevertheless, I'm curious what the current take is.

It seems weird that Disney would be testing with testers having FP+ and FP, since it gives a (seemingly) skewed perspective of how it will work. I'm now wondering though, has Disney ever said that FP Classic is going away? It's implied I know, and the machines only read magswipes, etc, etc, etc.... but all that means is that the current generation of machines is not going to be useful. Maybe they're intending to keep some version of FP Classic as the base system, with FP+ literally being the +, much like PP and PP+. Perhaps they're running the test this way as a way to approximate the new system. I have no doubts that all FPs, plus or not, will be pulled by app/kiosk and stored with the RFID media, but it may not mean the death of FP Classic, just an evolution.

That would be pretty good, FP+ for 60 days out, with strict limits (3 max, 1 park only, no duplicates) to prevent it from blowing the FP Classic pool right out of the water. I think that would be awesome.

Very unlikely and I've probably overlooked some obvious reason it can't happen. It's nice to think about though, a positive scenario, instead of all this 'the sky is falling' talk!

Matt

The problem is supply.

If all guests got their 3 FP+, then day of FP would be very limited. And, unless they held back FP for the headliners, no day of FP would be available for them.

So, park opens, and with less of the highly desirable FP available, there would be a worse FP morning dash than there is now. And, he demand for these highly desirable FP won't be any less than there is now; even if you had good FP+ in hand, you would still try to get more highly desirable FP once you got to the park. Everyone would still be trying to max the system.

 

[rastuso]

In April, on an average attendance day we pulled the following FP's (3 separate days, we did not do DHS)

MK:
1. Space Mountain
2. Peter Pan
3. BTMRR
4. Splash Mountain
5. Dumbo (disconnected)
6. Barnstormer (disconnected)

AK:
Safari
Everest
Kali

Epcot:
Soarin
-Probably would have used one for Test Track, but we used single rider instead

So, 6, 3, and 1 respectively were needed to tour productively. Thing is, these were all for rides that had long waits (most around an hour). With FP plus, what are the chances that I can a time for these specific rides?

Anyway, I know next to nothing about FP+ so I figured I'd join in and maybe learn something. Can't wrap my head around how it could possible work. I was so happy that it wasn't out in time for our most recent trip.

If that's all you got in April, not during Spring Break season, than you aren't a turbo FP user, so you probably won't notice much. You never knew how good you could have it, which is probably a good thing now!

Jason

 

[doconeill]

I had another interesting idea earlier, which I'm sure I'm not the first to have it, and I'm sure it was already posted here. I'd bet also that the masses have already ripped this idea apart Nevertheless, I'm curious what the current take is.

It seems weird that Disney would be testing with testers having FP+ and FP, since it gives a (seemingly) skewed perspective of how it will work. I'm now wondering though, has Disney ever said that FP Classic is going away? It's implied I know, and the machines only read magswipes, etc, etc, etc.... but all that means is that the current generation of machines is not going to be useful. Maybe they're intending to keep some version of FP Classic as the base system, with FP+ literally being the +, much like PP and PP+. Perhaps they're running the test this way as a way to approximate the new system. I have no doubts that all FPs, plus or not, will be pulled by app/kiosk and stored with the RFID media, but it may not mean the death of FP Classic, just an evolution.

That would be pretty good, FP+ for 60 days out, with strict limits (3 max, 1 park only, no duplicates) to prevent it from blowing the FP Classic pool right out of the water. I think that would be awesome.

Very unlikely and I've probably overlooked some obvious reason it can't happen. It's nice to think about though, a positive scenario, instead of all this 'the sky is falling' talk!

Matt

Or they are not looking to get feedback on the FP+ quantity restriction yet, they are just trying to get the functionality of the system tested, and wanted as large a test group as possible, which they might not have gotten if they at the same time ripped away what guests already know and were expecting...

 

[rastuso]

I had another interesting idea earlier, which I'm sure I'm not the first to have it, and I'm sure it was already posted here. I'd bet also that the masses have already ripped this idea apart Nevertheless, I'm curious what the current take is.

It seems weird that Disney would be testing with testers having FP+ and FP, since it gives a (seemingly) skewed perspective of how it will work. I'm now wondering though, has Disney ever said that FP Classic is going away? It's implied I know, and the machines only read magswipes, etc, etc, etc.... but all that means is that the current generation of machines is not going to be useful. Maybe they're intending to keep some version of FP Classic as the base system, with FP+ literally being the +, much like PP and PP+. Perhaps they're running the test this way as a way to approximate the new system. I have no doubts that all FPs, plus or not, will be pulled by app/kiosk and stored with the RFID media, but it may not mean the death of FP Classic, just an evolution.

That would be pretty good, FP+ for 60 days out, with strict limits (3 max, 1 park only, no duplicates) to prevent it from blowing the FP Classic pool right out of the water. I think that would be awesome.

Very unlikely and I've probably overlooked some obvious reason it can't happen. It's nice to think about though, a positive scenario, instead of all this 'the sky is falling' talk!

Matt

You aren't getting the facts straight. Giving 3 FP+ to everyone will take pretty much all good Fastpasses PERIOD. Your positive scenario is impossible, unless they are secretly building duplicate mountains behind the ones that are there, and we just can't see them.

Jason

 

[doconeill]

But what does Magic Your Way mean? That goes back to my fears on another thread that older non expiring tickets, purchased before the "Magic Your Way" moniker, won't be FP+ eligible.

All I know is Disney seems to be being very careful to NOT say that FP+ is available to all guests.

Jason

Magic Your Way tickets are the park tickets that have been sold since 2005.

If you are talking older tickets than that, it may depend on if they have compatible ticket IDs that can be entered - or they would need to be exchanged for equivalent newer tickets. That might be possible over the phone.

People with tickets that old probably aren't thinking all that much about FP+...

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

However we are all entitled to our opinion and the expression of it here as long as it conforms to board guidelines.

ITA! And this is basically what I said when a PP intimated that because I hadn't compiled thousands of computer files on WDW topics and don't surf DIS day in and day out, I had a... perhaps... less valid opinion?

We're all entitled to express our opinions, and should also expect that when we do, others might comment back wrt that opinion. Doesn't scare me... glad it doesn't you either...

Sent from my iPhone using DISBoards

 

[Cheshire Figment]

Being an accountant, I love playing with numbers. I looked at the latest AAA Guidebook and got the following numbers:

Disney has 18 owned and operated hotels with a total of 23,558 rooms. On average, there are three people per room for a total of 70,674 Guests.

Disney Vacation Club has 7 Resorts with a total of 3,997 units. Because of the unit sizes, it would be better to say there are an average of four people per unit. This would give 15,988 Guests.

There was no information as to the number of camp sites at the Fort Wilderness Campground, and I will not make any guesses.

This means the normal capacity of Disney Owned and Operated Resorts will average 86,662 Guests. Disney does tend to have better than 90% of its rooms filled, so that basically gives 78,000 people per day at Disney Resorts.

At three FP+ per person per day that is 234,000 FP+ per day, which is a lot of fastpasses.

(And, as a side note, the Swolphin and Hotel Plaza Boulevard Resorts have another 5,364 rooms.)

 

[superdisneydork]

Or they are not looking to get feedback on the FP+ quantity restriction yet, they are just trying to get the functionality of the system tested, and wanted as large a test group as possible, which they might not have gotten if they at the same time ripped away what guests already know and were expecting...

I figured as much, and I agree with you on that point, I was just being hopeful (I hear that isn't allowed here though ) though I realized it was unlikely.

You aren't getting the facts straight. Giving 3 FP+ to everyone will take pretty much all good Fastpasses PERIOD. Your positive scenario is impossible, unless they are secretly building duplicate mountains behind the ones that are there, and we just can't see them.

Jason

That is what I figured, especially since I myself have been very concerned about FP capacity with this new system. I am terrified it's going to become ADR 2: Revenge of MDE, and that nobody is going to be able to ride the Mountains or TSMM without 2 months notice and an alarm clock!

Matt

 

[WillAustin]

At three FP+ per person per day that is 234,000 FP+ per day, which is a lot of fastpasses.

And when you add in off-site and locals, you start to see why they added so many attractions to FP+ that never needed FPs and are limiting guests to 3 per day. Even with the limits, headliner FP+s are going to run out early.

 

[Lisa P.]

I wonder what the backup procedure will be for when either a chip fails or the system goes down, once it's fully live and there are no backup KttW cards around?

IF they'll have a back-up, it could include "read only" screens which show data but do not allow changes or new entries. This is what is used at our hospital during "downtime". ...IF...

So the 1 park/day thing is really bugging me. I'm not a hopper typically, but many are and I'm wondering if Disney is trying to get rid of the hopper altogether.

Here's the potential reasoning. Hoppers are usually the planners.... They get to ride all the headliners in both parks and maximize the FP system to the max. They do DHS and AK in half days, splitting that time with evening EMH at MK, etc.

Maybe they figure most hoppers/planners typically only visit two parks in a day, so they can take advantage of the shorter lines at rope drop, then FP+ for their later park. This is probably an easy solution for the majority of guests, except when there are peak crowds.

I doubt there is any interest in eliminating park-hopping, as it is a revenue-producing option and it is offered by the competition. Also, it must be permitted for the bazillion partially used hopper passes out there.

Between legacy FP and FP+ we were able to ride 4 times in less than 2.5 hours while standby wait was 90 minutes.

Interesting. This could be just the onsite perk to make onsite price increases successful. Offer only legacy FP to everyone but provide FP+ only to onsite guests as a bonus feature.

We spent one evening in the MK when we were in FL recently. We got there at 3 and stayed until 1 AM. And we never got to do Space Mountain. The ... standby line right before closing. It was 105 minutes at 12:50.

We've been told by several CMs that the standby line on headline rides is often "stacked" near closing. They keep the line from progressing through a part of the queue, beyond the entry point's view. This keeps the line visible at the entry area and the standby wait time shows what it would be normally from that point. Then, after the line closes, they allow the waiting guests to walk through the full queue, and their wait is not nearly as long as posted. So we don't hesitate to get into a long wait standby near closing. And generally, we've found the wait to be easily half the posted time.

At three FP+ per person per day that is 234,000 FP+ per day, which is a lot of fastpasses.

Divided among two larger parks and two smaller parks, that's still a lot of fastpasses. Interesting though. Thanks for posting that.

 

[wilkeliza]

They didn't say you were going to be treated less. They said the early rollout will be for resort guests with pre-purchased tickets. If they tried to roll this out to everyone simultaneously, it would be a complete disaster. Easier to deal with those that they can control first, then start pulling in more and more.

As of right now though it does make my family feel treated as less if they are left out. They are staying at Poly (not even on discount) and just using my main gate. Yes it is all hypothetical at the moment as August is probably safe from the roll out but if they show up to Poly and everyone else is getting bands an booking Fastpasses then they are going to wonder what is up and why didn't they get those options.

 

[andrewilley]

I still don't understand the sentiment that due to FP+ people "won't be able to ride the rides they love". Who says you can't ride something if you don't have a FP+ for it? Surely Disney isn't. Will you have to wait in a standby line?

What maybe hasn't been factored in is the increase in the amount of attractions that will have FastPass+ compared to the current crop. If they keep the admission ratios as at present (at peak times, say 10 FastPass guests per 1 regular line guest) then this will hugely increase the standby wait times on attractions for which we don't normally expect long waits (Pirates, Small World, etc) until they reach the "bail" point where people just don't bother joining the line.

With fixed loading capacities at any given time, the only way to let a few people get on a ride faster is if other people get on it a lot slower. So maybe those 60,000 people will get ONE better experience on ONE mountain - but the parkwide waits times for many other attractions for the rest of the day will go up, which might negate the euphoria of three pre-booked fastpasses.

On the other hand if you removed FastPass completely, the standby wait times would almost certainly get shorter overall.


You know, I'd love to revisit this in a few years time and see how the system impacts people attempting the "Ultimate Touring Plan" of doing every attraction in the MK in a single day. At present, it's quite doable with a bit of forward planning - but after the changes, I'm guessing the inevitable general increase in standby times may make it impossible.

Andre

 

[doconeill]

As of right now though it does make my family feel treated as less if they are left out. They are staying at Poly (not even on discount) and just using my main gate. Yes it is all hypothetical at the moment as August is probably safe from the roll out but if they show up to Poly and everyone else is getting bands an booking Fastpasses then they are going to wonder what is up and why didn't they get those options.

Let me add this...I understand that the test includes those who already had their tickets, and not as part of a package.

So package holders may NOT be exclusive in the rollout either.

 

[mom2rtk]

What maybe hasn't been factored in is the increase in the amount of attractions that will have FastPass+ compared to the current crop. If they keep the admission ratios as at present (at peak times, say 10 FastPass guests per 1 regular line guest) then this will hugely increase the standby wait times on attractions for which we don't normally expect long waits (Pirates, Small World, etc) until they reach the "bail" point where people just don't bother joining the line.

With fixed loading capacities at any given time, the only way to let a few people get on a ride faster is if other people get on it a lot slower. So maybe those 60,000 people will get ONE better experience on ONE mountain - but the parkwide waits times for many other attractions for the rest of the day will go up, which might negate the euphoria of three pre-booked fastpasses.

On the other hand if you removed FastPass completely, the standby wait times would almost certainly get shorter overall.


You know, I'd love to revisit this in a few years time and see how the system impacts people attempting the "Ultimate Touring Plan" of doing every attraction in the MK in a single day. At present, it's quite doable with a bit of forward planning - but after the changes, I'm guessing the inevitable general increase in standby times may make it impossible.

Andre

This is actually fairly high up on my list of concerns with FP+. It is impossible to know how this will play out, but I am concerned that rides that used to be great "filler" because they had fairly short lines, will no longer fill that roll. Without Haunted Mansion or Pirates with a predictably reasonable line, what else would one do to fill the time between headliner FP times?

FP slots will be available for all FP enabled rides starting, what, 40 minutes after park opening? When people log in 20 days out and find all the good times and good rides gone, will they take a FP on HM that early in the day? When they get there, will it be worth hoofing it across the park to keep that appointment? Maybe human nature will kick in and nobody will show. But it does indeed have the capability of slowing down the rides that used to have quick access.

Maybe instead of being a negative, it will just keep them out of the lines for the headliners. And maybe it just kept them out of the pool of people using their coveted FPs for headliners. So maybe those lines will conversely be better? Maybe they'll go home from their trip so hacked off at the reduced ride access they'll never go back. WHO KNOWS??????

This is actually one of the more interesting points about this new system. It will be an interesting study in product development and unintended consequences.

 

[wdwlover25]

I figured as much, and I agree with you on that point, I was just being hopeful (I hear that isn't allowed here though ) though I realized it was unlikely.

That is what I figured, especially since I myself have been very concerned about FP capacity with this new system. I am terrified it's going to become ADR 2: Revenge of MDE, and that nobody is going to be able to ride the Mountains or TSMM without 2 months notice and an alarm clock!

Matt

Completely agree with this post... One of my main concerns was having to pre determine what park for what day. ADR currently helps with that determination. Even at 180 days flexibility is necessary for certain places. BOG for example... I'm guessing FP+ will further help make that determination. TSMM gone on Monday but available Tuesday. I guess it's DHS on Tuesday. Just hope ADRs booked 4 months prior fit the plan!