GRAND OPENING - GRAND CLOSING (Florida)

[JimMIA]

How off is way off? the last column is % Available ICU beds. The two largest in the state :: UF and JMH - are 78% an 80% utilized. Your graph underscores the current medical demand and it's rising.

When you're talking about ICU beds, that's really a very local topic and you have to know the rest of the picture as well as the local affiliations and geography to draw any sensible conclusions.

For example, Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami. JMH has two other hospitals (Jackson North and Jackson South), but they are some distance away, even though they are part of the same system -- so I'll just ignore them for now.

But JMH is the teaching hospital for the University of Miami medical school and is the core of a huge hospital complex which includes a number of other facilities. Two of those, literally on the same property, are UM's main hospital (20 of 46 ICU beds open) and the Sylvester Cancer Center (20/40). Ryder Trauma Center, also part of JMH and on the same property also has ICU beds.

You could go through community after community and look at the entire local picture and you'd get similar results. NONE of the medical professionals are worried. We're fine on ICU beds in Florida.

I have no idea what the situation is in Anaheim, CA, but hopefully you won't need an ICU bed.

 

[montreid]

When you're talking about ICU beds, that's really a very local topic and you have to know the rest of the picture as well as the local affiliations and geography to draw any sensible conclusions.

For example, Jackson Memorial Hospital in Miami. JMH has two other hospitals (Jackson North and Jackson South), but they are some distance away, even though they are part of the same system -- so I'll just ignore them for now.

But JMH is the teaching hospital for the University of Miami medical school and is the core of a huge hospital complex which includes a number of other facilities. Two of those, literally on the same property, are UM's main hospital (20 of 46 ICU beds open) and the Sylvester Cancer Center (20/40). Ryder Trauma Center, also part of JMH and on the same property also has ICU beds.

You could go through community after community and look at the entire local picture and you'd get similar results. NONE of the medical professionals are worried. We're fine on ICU beds in Florida.

I have no idea what the situation is in Anaheim, CA, but hopefully you won't need an ICU bed.

As a med grad from the U and JMH, I can tell you, my friends ARE concerned.

Without getting into specifics, the pipeline that you're talking about throughout FL does NOT have much slack in it. -- and we're in summer low demand times too.

 

[JimMIA]

As a med grad from the U and JMH, I can tell you, my friends ARE concerned.

Without getting into specifics, the pipeline that you're talking about throughout FL does NOT have much slack in it. -- and we're in summer low demand times too.

Without getting into specifics, I can tell you that my friends and neighbors who are doctors here in Miami are NOT concerned.

 

[montreid]

@JimMIA - It's quite a bit better situation here in SoCal despite a relative 30% uptick in Covid activity but absolute % still in the low 2-3%.

Having trained through the AIDS epidemic at JMH and friends on the front lines directly taking care of patients, just putting out information that's factual and first hand reporting--they are concerned.

Am not here to convince you or anyone else of anything beyond the benefit of safe practices as possible while enjoying what Disney has to offer.

 

[godisney14]

Here's a good FL website for updates on hospital/ICU bed status:
Hospital ICU Beds Census and Staffed Availability as Reported in ESS (emergency status system)

 

[JimMIA]

Here's a good FL website for updates on hospital/ICU bed status:
Hospital ICU Beds Census and Staffed Availability as Reported in ESS (emergency status system)

Hmmm. My firewall blocks that as a malicious website...

 

[wombat_5606]

Hmmm. My firewall blocks that as a malicious website...

Try this one from the Agency for Healthcare Administration:

https://bi.ahca.myflorida.com/t/ABI...link&:isGuestRedirectFromVizportal=y&:embed=y

 

[godisney14]

Hmmm. My firewall blocks that as a malicious website...

Yea, not sure what happened with my original link. It worked on my desktop originally, but it didn’t work on my mobile just now. Anyways, the link by wombat_5606 is good (thanks).

It is a legitimate website put up by FL.

 

[JimMIA]

Thank you both, and YES that is an excellent resource. First of all, it gives the resources county by county rather than by individual hospital, which gives a much more clear picture of community resources. And it also shows pedi ICU beds.

Overall, my reading of it is that we're in pretty good shape. The only place I have a concern is the Panhandle, where Escambia County (Pensacola) is at 8%. But their neighboring counties of Okaloosa, Santa Rosa, and Bay have beds.

 

[tippity]

As a med grad from the U and JMH, I can tell you, my friends ARE concerned.

Without getting into specifics, the pipeline that you're talking about throughout FL does NOT have much slack in it. -- and we're in summer low demand times too.

Hospitals only make money when there are heads in beds. I’ve never seen an ICU at less than 80% occupancy. Hospitals are always operating with limited vacancies.

 

[wombat_5606]

Hospitals only make money when there are heads in beds. I’ve never seen an ICU at less than 80% occupancy. Hospitals are always operating with limited vacancies.

We're not discussing making money, though. We are talking about having enough ICU beds to be able to handle a pandemic.

A pandemic think tank has said that hospitals should be able to ramp up to 2x their current ICU census for adequate coverage. It should also include staffing.

Presently, looking at the entire state of Florida, they would not be able to do that. Obviously, they could possibly transport patients to other counties, but I don't know how often ICU patients are put in ambulances and moved to the next county.

 

[montreid]

Hospitals only make money when there are heads in beds. I’ve never seen an ICU at less than 80% occupancy. Hospitals are always operating with limited vacancies.

This is true -- in normal circs. We are not operating in such.

Our hospital plans (which matches county and state plans) calls for 50% occupancy and when it hits 70% we start modifying elective procedures to reduce the elective burden and scales upwards.

hospital beds are fine and most places have sufficient supply on that. ICU beds are a different beast. And if you've been to ICUs across systems, there's a significant difference between community ICU beds and larger tertiary ICU units which run full range, including ECMO.

 

[HeatherC]

That's crazy. Masks are required in NY and over 99% of customers wear them. I've seen customers enter without a mask to be told they have to wear a mask.

Same here in Massachusetts. Around here you have to have a mask on to enter a store, etc. People have been using them.

 

[tippity]

This is true -- in normal circs. We are not operating in such.

Our hospital plans (which matches county and state plans) calls for 50% occupancy and when it hits 70% we start modifying elective procedures to reduce the elective burden and scales upwards.

hospital beds are fine and most places have sufficient supply on that. ICU beds are a different beast. And if you've been to ICUs across systems, there's a significant difference between community ICU beds and larger tertiary ICU units which run full range, including ECMO.

 

[tippity]

I thought the original concern was having enough ventilators. So ICU's must have ECMO for the patients? How many ECMO machines should each ICU have? These machine require at least 2 full time people to manage them. The patients only have a 50-50 chance of surviving. Then if they survive, what is their quality of life afterward? ECMO was originally intended for short term use, hours. Now it's being used for several weeks. However the physicians who are ordering ECMO, aren't seeing the patients' long term outcomes.

 

[DopeyDame]

Don't know where you got your Florida ICU numbers, but you're way off. We have plenty of both regular hospital beds and ICU beds available.

Here are some actual facts -- and of course very few of those occupied ICU beds have covid patients. For example, only 11 of the 49 patients in ICU at Broward County's Memorial Hospital system are covid patients.

View attachment 502757

NOTE: This is just page 1 of 31. We have hundreds of open ICU beds. Here's a link to the whole story if you want to look at the complete list:

https://www.sun-sentinel.com/corona...403-tasn7rj2vncsjivrg75wb6gqkm-htmlstory.html

Your "actual facts" literally prove her point. She said 75% of ICU beds are occupied. If you average the % available adult ICU beds that YOU posted, the "actual facts" show that there are, on average, 27.9% available beds. . 100 - 27.9 = 72.1%. I wouldn't call 72% vs 75% "way off" In fact it's remarkalby spot-on

I don't know enough about the Florida medical system to say if ~75% full is unusual or concerning, but it sure would help if you stuck to "actual facts" rather than dismissing someone who pointed out very real "facts"

 

[DopeyDame]

Hospitals only make money when there are heads in beds. I’ve never seen an ICU at less than 80% occupancy. Hospitals are always operating with limited vacancies.

See, now this is a good piece of information (assuming it's true). And might be an argument that things in Florida aren't as dire as they appear. Thanks for sharing.

 

[jlwhitney]

I thought the original concern was having enough ventilators. So ICU's must have ECMO for the patients? How many ECMO machines should each ICU have? These machine require at least 2 full time people to manage them. The patients only have a 50-50 chance of surviving. Then if they survive, what is their quality of life afterward? ECMO was originally intended for short term use, hours. Now it's being used for several weeks. However the physicians who are ordering ECMO, aren't seeing the patients' long term outcomes.

They are finding that ventilators are making the outcome worst, so the goal is to avoid them if they can. In Italy and the beginning of NYC they thought people needed them to have a better chance so they put people on them much faster which in the end caused more damage.

 

[ronandannette]

They are finding that ventilators are making the outcome worst, so the goal is to avoid them if they can. In Italy and the beginning of NYC they thought people needed them to have a better chance so they put people on them much faster which in the end caused more damage.

We’ve largely stopped hearing about things like this - details on cases and the various ways people are affected. I think it was helpful when anecdotal information was being discussed more. Now we’re all just out here with “numbers” being parsed a million different ways and the situation is becoming more and more ideological/political while we lose any sense of the reality of it.

 

[jlwhitney]

We’ve largely stopped hearing about things like this - details on cases and the various ways people are affected. I think it was helpful when anecdotal information was being discussed more. Now we’re all just out here with “numbers” being parsed a million different ways and the situation is becoming more and more ideological/political while we lose any sense of the reality of it.

Its become fully political. They have also run out of things to spread fear because most of what they used has been seen to not be as big of an issue as made it out to be. The sad part is this reminds of the story of the boy who cried wolf, except it is the media. One day, who knows when there will be some real and big threat and the damage will be done and no one will really listen.

Perspective has been lost by so many. Worldwide there hasn't even been even 1/2 million deaths of a world wide population of over 7 BILLION people. We are also no where even close to having 1 percent world wide test positive. Same with the US. Yes it is real, and yes ever death means something to someone, but thousands die every day in the US for all reasons and those matter too but right now people act like those don't either and many of them could be claimed to be prevented. Life has a risk of death associated and in the end people need to determine what level they are comfortable with and live and work.