Grand Floridian 2 info

[RebelScum]

Disney already has cancelled Reflections because of the pandemic. With the recent surge due to the Delta variant having an impact on attendance (and preventing International Guests from traveling to WDW), does it make sense for Disney to hit the pause button on VGF2 until attendance returns to normal?

What's happening to Riviera sales appears to be unique, but so is the pandemic. In prior years, active (or recently "sold out") resorts made up more than 80% of WDW DVC sales. (I'm excluding Aulani since my data for this is incomplete.)

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Since WDW reopened in July 2020, "sold out" resorts have made up a disproportionate number of DVC direct sales. I agree with @gkrykewy's theory that the mix of current WDW visitors is having some effect. (Because of COVID, a lot of visitors are already DVC members resulting in more add-on sales.)

Still, price seems to be another significant factor. OKW and SSR have combined for over 30,000 points sold for the last 3 months, and these happen to be the 2 least expensive WDW DVC resorts. These 2 DVC resorts haven't seen these sort of sales numbers since the last time they were being actively marketed.

CCV has seen average sales of 13,000 per month since reopening, and that's priced at $225 per point. Not up to recent SSR and OKW sales but maybe what's happening at RIV is not just about price? To @gkrykewy's point, are these add-on sales?

What does all this suggest for VGF2 prices? Does it make sense for DVD to put the brakes on VGF2 until the market returns to normal?

I think a big contributing factor to this shift is the fact that when WDW reopened, the DVC preview center did not. Instead they began doing previews at each of the existing resorts (I toured RIV, BLT, Poly, VGF, AKV) which was new. Historically, they only had models of new resorts. With people previewing sold-out resorts, the sales of those resorts naturally increased as a percentage. I think it is less about RIV, but more about other resorts being actively shown/sold.

 

[Nabas]

I think a big contributing factor to this shift is the fact that when WDW reopened, the DVC preview center did not. Instead they began doing previews at each of the existing resorts (I toured RIV, BLT, Poly, VGF, AKV) which was new. Historically, they only had models of new resorts. With people previewing sold-out resorts, the sales of those resorts naturally increased as a percentage. I think it is less about RIV, but more about other resorts being actively shown/sold.

With the preview center closed, when someone stops at a DVC kios at the park, wouldn’t they most likely take them to the Riviera?

Pre-COVID, I recall the resort DVC kiosks being manned.

My point is, why would having the preview center closed have any effect on the ratio, if potential DVC buyers are now being taken to the Riviera instead of the preview center?

 

[Sandisw]

With the preview center closed, when someone stops at a DVC kios at the park, wouldn’t they most likely take them to the Riviera?

Pre-COVID, I recall the resort DVC kiosks being manned.

My point is, why would having the preview center closed have any effect on the ratio, if potential DVC buyers are now being taken to the Riviera instead of the preview center?

They don’t do that. They show them the rooms at that resort. If someone wants to see RIV, they can make an appointment and head over there.

But, most are simply previewing the rooms at that resort However, I will say the DVC desk at RIV was always the busiest over the resorts we have been at recently.

 

[Dizzydizney]

I don’t believe there will not be a sink. I, too, looked at the floor plan for the GF and I can see them doing a kitchenette similar to that of Bay Lake Tower. I did not see them bring nearly as nice as the studios at GF DVC. I’m thinking it will be lower points due to most likely the shower/tub set up. Then again a nice view of MK ....
So who knows.

 

[Nabas]

They don’t do that. They show them the rooms at that resort. If someone wants to see RIV, they can make an appointment and head over there.

But, most are simply previewing the rooms at that resort However, I will say the DVC desk at RIV was always the busiest over the resorts we have been at recently.

Right but if someone is at a theme park and asks to see a resort, aren;t they most likely to be taken to the Riviera?

Let's recall the comment that started this particular discussion:

I think a big contributing factor to this shift is the fact that when WDW reopened, the DVC preview center did not. Instead they began doing previews at each of the existing resorts (I toured RIV, BLT, Poly, VGF, AKV) which was new. Historically, they only had models of new resorts. With people previewing sold-out resorts, the sales of those resorts naturally increased as a percentage. I think it is less about RIV, but more about other resorts being actively shown/sold.​

Again, I'm trying to understand the difference between pre and post COVID, to understand why not having the preview center open would result in fewer Riviera sales but more OKW/SSR sales.

Remember, recent sales have been unusually strong at SSR and OKW. So although it's interesting that DVD might be showing rooms at SSR or OKW, are they really going to drive prospective buyers to these 2 resorts if they are at theme parks and ask to see DVC rooms? Aren't they going to take them to the Riviera?

Realistically, who is looking at rooms at SSR and OKW if they are already staying there?

I could understand if sales were up at VGF, BLT, Poly, BWV, or BCV. These are close to theme parks. I even get CCV and AKV - these are visually interesting resorts. But sales are up at SSR and OKW. Why would having the preview center closed result in increased sales at SSR and OKW?

 

[Sandisw]

Right but if someone is at a theme park and asks to see a resort, aren;t they most likely to be taken to the Riviera?

Let's recall the comment that started this particular discussion:

I think a big contributing factor to this shift is the fact that when WDW reopened, the DVC preview center did not. Instead they began doing previews at each of the existing resorts (I toured RIV, BLT, Poly, VGF, AKV) which was new. Historically, they only had models of new resorts. With people previewing sold-out resorts, the sales of those resorts naturally increased as a percentage. I think it is less about RIV, but more about other resorts being actively shown/sold.​

Again, I'm trying to understand the difference between pre and post COVID, to understand why not having the preview center open would result in fewer Riviera sales but more OKW/SSR sales.

Remember, recent sales have been unusually strong at SSR and OKW. So although it's interesting that DVD might be showing rooms at SSR or OKW, are they really going to drive prospective buyers to these 2 resorts if they are at theme parks and ask to see DVC rooms? Aren't they going to take them to the Riviera?

Realistically, who is looking at rooms at SSR and OKW if they are already staying there?

I could understand if sales were up at VGF, BLT, Poly, BWV, or BCV. These are close to theme parks. I even get CCV and AKV - these are visually interesting resorts. But sales are up at SSR and OKW. Why would having the preview center closed result in increased sales at SSR and OKW?

I don’t think they are taking people anywhere like before. I don’t think the vans are in play. So, at the park, I am not sure what they tell people. Sure, they may encourage people to go to RIV, but I can see them encouraging them to go to any or all the DVC resorts? You no longer get anything for taking a tour..other than a print..so it may be not as much as a push as before?

I don’t think the preview center is playing a role. I still believe it’s cost that may be leading people to one of those.

As I said, when the price change went in effect for SSR in June, OKW took its place as the second place resort behind RiV.

Again, if you average out the number of contracts to points, it does seem like OKW and SSR are more likely to be add ons vs new. With the increase now of OKW and SSR at $180 and no incentives, we shall see if the numbers remain as strong

And, if it is current owners adding on, we know, based on comments just here, that the resale restrictions are preventing some owners to buy at RIV so I’d venture all the other resorts being bought are because of that.

As your chart showed, prior to the panedemic, RIV was doing really well the few months prior to the shut down but has not rebounded back to that level.

It think that is why it is going to be very interesting as to how they decide to market and sell VGF2. But, if cost is playing a role then we very well May see soft sales for VGF2 too.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

I don’t think they are taking people anywhere like before. I don’t think the vans are in play. So, at the park, I am not sure what they tell people. Sure, they may encourage people to go to RIV, but I can see them encouraging them to go to any or all the DVC resorts? You no longer get anything for taking a tour..other than a print..so it may be not as much as a push as before?

I don’t think the preview center is playing a role. I still believe it’s cost that may be leading people to one of those.

As I said, when the price change went in effect for SSR in June, OKW took its place as the second place resort behind RiV.

Again, if you average out the number of contracts to points, it does seem like OKW and SSR are more likely to be add ons vs new. With the increase now of OKW and SSR at $180 and no incentives, we shall see if the numbers remain as strong

And, if it is current owners adding on, we know, based on comments just here, that the resale restrictions are preventing some owners to buy at RIV so I’d venture all the other resorts being bought are because of that.

As your chart showed, prior to the panedemic, RIV was doing really well the few months prior to the shut down but have not rebounded back to that level.

It think that is why it is going to be very interesting as to how they decide to marker and sell VGF2. But, I’d cost is playing a role then we will see it in the sales for VGF2 too.

We had an appointment to see Riviera and we were picked up in a DVC van, and taken back to our resort after meeting with a guide. This was in April.

 

[Sandisw]

We had an appointment to see Riviera and we were picked up in a DVC van, and taken back to our resort after meeting with a guide. This was in April.

Good to know! Thanks for up to date info!

 

[Paul Stupin]

I think Riviera has an 800lb gorilla in each room being resale restrictions. When I purchased DVC years ago, I had no idea resale or sold out inventory points were available. Resale restrictions have caused a buzz among DVC customers. The pandemic swung the economic pendulum in both directions. Some people (tech stocks) made a fortune while some lost everything. I wouldn’t discount demand for VGF2.

I thought that as well initially, and did not even consider purchasing Riviera because of the resale restrictions. But then my wife and I stayed there, and really loved it. And the resale price itself is holding up pretty well. With current incentives, the direct price also isn’t too bad.

I‘m now in a place where I’d actually consider buying. It’s great resort, and if I bought I’d hold onto the points for what I hope will be many years anyway. And with no new dvc resort construction on the horizon, I think resale buyers down the line, particularly members looking to add on, won‘t be put off by the resale restrictions because they’ll be buying the points just to stay there.

That said, I’m really hoping VGF2 will be reasonably priced, because my immediate aim is to add on there.

 

[tidefan]

Off topic: I also believe VGF2 will have resale restrictions, and if that happens then I do believe RIV may see a boost in sales if pricing is higher at VGF2.

I don't think they can do this if they roll the new VGF points into the existing condo association.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I don't think they can do this if they roll the new VGF points into the existing condo association.

And, to be clear: They are rolling VGF2 into VGF1. Same condo association, same rules.

 

[brazzledazzler]

And, to be clear: They are rolling VGF2 into VGF1. Same condo association, same rules.

The rules of resale are specific to the property deeds, not to condo associations. I'm still waiting for the Florida Timeshare lawyers on the DISboards to chime in. Until then, I would say, anything is possible, and no one should assume that there will or won't be resale restrictions just because it's the same condo association.

It's all speculation, but my law degree and my gut tell me not to bank on there not being restrictions. If I'm wrong, then I'll be celebrating with everyone, since I don't like resale restrictions on any of the properties.

 

[BWV Dreamin]

The rules of resale are specific to the property deeds, not to condo associations. I'm still waiting for the Florida Timeshare lawyers on the DISboards to chime in. Until then, I would say, anything is possible, and no one should assume that there will or won't be resale restrictions just because it's the same condo association.

It's all speculation, but my law degree and my gut tell me not to bank on there not being restrictions. If I'm wrong, then I'll be celebrating with everyone, since I don't like resale restrictions on any of the properties.

That poses an interesting question. IF the new VGF2 indeed has resale restrictions, won’t that create future booking issues? Even though the new studios will add plenty of inventory now, once those new VGF2 contracts go to resale, that inventory will shrink as those resale contracts will only be able to book at VGF.

 

[JamieGagnon]

I had no idea they were making a GF 2!

 

[kanerf]

Not a new build. They are converting one of the hotel buildings into all studios.

 

[wnielsen1]

I think Riviera has an 800lb gorilla in each room being resale restrictions. When I purchased DVC years ago, I had no idea resale or sold out inventory points were available. Resale restrictions have caused a buzz among DVC customers. The pandemic swung the economic pendulum in both directions. Some people (tech stocks) made a fortune while some lost everything. I wouldn’t discount demand for VGF2.

I have been recently discussing with my guide a 50 point add-on. I said that Riv was on the list of possibilities, but I wasn't my first choice. He asked why, and I specifically mentioned the resale restrictions. I let him know that if Riv didn't have resale restrictions, we wouldn't be having this conversation right now because I would have already bought it.

 

[pirate33]

I've been deciding what to do given that I want to switch my use year and buy more points. The resale market has cooled a little so I bit the bullet and bought a 225 point contract (50 more than I have now) at $185/per pt (loaded with 100 banked points, and seller pays dues for 2021). I decided to hedge my bets. Even if VGF 2 comes in at $225, this is a significant savings, and I consistently like staying at BLT (where I also own) and VGF so staying at new resorts isn't super important to me. If VGF 2 comes in at $250, I will keep this contract; if it's more like $200 then I may buy direct to replace this new contract and get more points. In between, hmmmm. If I replace my new resale contract with direct points, I'd be out some closing costs and a commission but I decided it's worth it to me. I'd like to buy another 200 or so points next year, and this move felt right to me at this moment in time. The notion of VGF 2 having resale restrictions is what pushed me over the edge frankly.

 

[Marionnette]

The rules of resale are specific to the property deeds, not to condo associations. I'm still waiting for the Florida Timeshare lawyers on the DISboards to chime in. Until then, I would say, anything is possible, and no one should assume that there will or won't be resale restrictions just because it's the same condo association.

It's all speculation, but my law degree and my gut tell me not to bank on there not being restrictions. If I'm wrong, then I'll be celebrating with everyone, since I don't like resale restrictions on any of the properties.

But does DVC need the headache of two types of VGF contracts? VGF1 resale can book everywhere but newer resorts, VGF2 can only book at VGF...what a nightmare! There are already occasional glitches for some Kidani owners that want to book Jambo at 11 months!

It would make more sense to create VGF2 with its own condo association if that is their intention...similar to what they did with BRV and CCV (two resorts that share the same property but are not linked to each other). They could add all the restrictions they care to do AND sell VGF2 with an expiration date 50 years into the future.

 

[CarolMN]

t's all speculation, but my law degree and my gut tell me not to bank on there not being restrictions. If I'm wrong, then I'll be celebrating with everyone, since I don't like resale restrictions on any of the properties.

DVD has already said they will offer the new villas under the same condo association.

IANAL, but I do not see anything in the POS for the VGF that indicates there can be different rules for owners in the same association based on the way they acquired their ownership interest.

Here are links to the POS documents for the VGF:
https://cdn1.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/en/collateral-docs/vgf-pos-rev-12_30_13.pdfhttps://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.disney.com/media/dvc/en/collateral-docs/VGF_POS_Insert_6_2021.pdf

 

[Deeleebaker]

Right but if someone is at a theme park and asks to see a resort, aren;t they most likely to be taken to the Riviera?

Let's recall the comment that started this particular discussion:

I think a big contributing factor to this shift is the fact that when WDW reopened, the DVC preview center did not. Instead they began doing previews at each of the existing resorts (I toured RIV, BLT, Poly, VGF, AKV) which was new. Historically, they only had models of new resorts. With people previewing sold-out resorts, the sales of those resorts naturally increased as a percentage. I think it is less about RIV, but more about other resorts being actively shown/sold.​

Again, I'm trying to understand the difference between pre and post COVID, to understand why not having the preview center open would result in fewer Riviera sales but more OKW/SSR sales.

Remember, recent sales have been unusually strong at SSR and OKW. So although it's interesting that DVD might be showing rooms at SSR or OKW, are they really going to drive prospective buyers to these 2 resorts if they are at theme parks and ask to see DVC rooms? Aren't they going to take them to the Riviera?

Realistically, who is looking at rooms at SSR and OKW if they are already staying there?

I could understand if sales were up at VGF, BLT, Poly, BWV, or BCV. These are close to theme parks. I even get CCV and AKV - these are visually interesting resorts. But sales are up at SSR and OKW. Why would having the preview center closed result in increased sales at SSR and OKW?

I was just there and toured a VGF 2 and 3BR and then a BWV 1 BR. When there, the guide offered to take me to SSR when I mentioned treehouses. Not RIV. So they aren't all pushing that one. They are tailoring to what the buyer might want.