GM to lay off 30,000 people

[ducklite]

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Thanks! That's exactly the point I was trying to make.. Personally, I could live like a queen on $33,600 a year!!

Perhaps now, but have you accounted for inflation over the next 30 years? (Not trying to pick a fight, truly just wondering...)

Anne

 

[chrissyk]

Perhaps now, but have you accounted for inflation over the next 30 years? (Not trying to pick a fight, truly just wondering...)

Anne

That's a good question too...I think that one has to account for inflation, but perhaps not as drastically as you'd think. If the house is paid for, the retiree lives in a state with a provision to fix the property taxes to a certain max. increase per year (and they're fixed on the low end), said retiree doesn't have high homeowners' premiums, etc., I think that this income could stave off inflation for quite some time. In my mind, the biggest things to think about are the annual expenses that just never go away (property taxes, insurance, etc.). If you can move somewhere that allows you to fix those items on the low end for the long term, then you're ahead of the inflation game, KWIM?

HOWEVER, all bets are 100% off if a retiree lives in a state where property taxes can randomly go up, homeowners' insurance is brutally high (and rising...), etc. I'm starting to wonder about this retirement haven of FL because of these very items, KWIM I love it here, but I'm sure that eventually the homeowners' premiums are going to force us to make some tough decisions (and we're NOT retired).

 

[S. C.]

I may be wrong on this but I think I read that the major sticking point was health care issues. The GM employees wouldn't budge so now they lose their jobs. My health care cost have gone up over 300% in the last 5 years (and I work for a MAJOR US corporation). Our school districts budget increase for the last 5 years have been soley for teacher's benefits (they still pay nothing). I think Americans need to wake to the fact that free (company paid) health care is a thing of the past.

I haven't read this whole thread so maybe someone else already pointed this out. But us GM employees DID agree to pay more on our health care. It passed by 53% of the vote FOR us to pay more on our health care. someone else had mentioned the retirees, they also have to pay quite a bit now for there health care.

Did anyone else notice that the same week GM was crying that we had to pay more on our health care that GM CEO's was in china making deals there?

Also everytime ANY company does a restructuring, bankrupsy (sp) etc, the CEO's end up with MILLIONS of dollars in bonus money.

The trickle down effect will hurt the whole economy.

 

[frndshpcptn]

"Leaving aside unexpected medical expenses, if a retired family of two (and positively "one") cannot live on $33,600 a year, without living with or relying on their children, then they are doing something drastically wrong.."

A retired family of 2 could NOT live on that amount in Northern NJ. I am single and if I only made that amount I could not afford a car payment, house payment, gas, utility bills and food.

 

[S. C.]

Why does someone who pushes a button on an assembly line all day deserve more than a prevailing wage Anne

obviously you have never worked on an assembly line If you think all we do is push buttons all day. Trust me... working on an assembly line IS hard work.

By the time we reach retirement age most all of us have carpel tunnel, tinnitus & all different cancers from all the solvents, chemicals, etc.

A lot more than GM jobs will be lost because of this. For every 1 big three job lost there is something like 3 jobs lost because of the trickle down effect.

 

[rockin_rep]

If it makes me a bad person, oh well, but I'm going to take the lesser risk and get more for my money.

See, thats just it. With all due respect, while maybe not a 'bad person', too many americans are all about *me*.

Yes, we have to be good stewards of our money BUT we also have to look at the *big picture* and not be short sighted. Yes, its nice to save a few bucks here and there (and by few, it can mean hundreds in regards to autos).

But when masses of people do this very thing, what happens? We can potentially lose yet another industry in america.

Long term big picture -- how many more industries can we afford to lose? All industries create jobs far reaching beyond that industry, and that translates into more sales of consumer goods & services etc etc. Just think how many industries are at risk -- technology -- when is the last time you bought a tv made in america? Cameras? Clothing? Name anything that is easily found to be made in america, its tough to find.

Again, i'm thinking long term -- for our children and children's children.

Think it can't happen? I hope it can't. But who would have thought a generation or two ago, what potentially can be lost thru computers? How many more years until the Post Office is obsolete? Just one example....

Just some food for thought...

God bless America.
LAND THAT I LOVE!

 

[S. C.]

Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2inPA
Unions have taken concessions, nationwide. What do you want them to make, $7 an hour with no benefits? You try to support a family on that wage.

I guess it's better than supporting them on unemplyment when the plant closes down...Anne

Do you honestly believe that anyone making $7 an hour could feed their families, have a place to live, pay car insurance, pay their own health care, and save for retirement? Anyone with a family making $7 an hour will be drawing help from the government. So yes the taxpayers would have to support them.

 

[kilee]

It is bigger than just GM- I only got through the first few pages. My husband hauls steel for GM and Ford. One of his first trips a week is usually to Lansing MI- then onto Holt MI. The one in Lansing is on the list. I know his company is talking about laying off 1/3 of their workers due to a decline in loads. Which in turn is also going to affect the steel mills. It's going to have a huge ripple effect to their suppliers and support people too. That 30,000 number could become much bigger.

 

[ducklite]

obviously you have never worked on an assembly line If you think all we do is push buttons all day. Trust me... working on an assembly line IS hard work.

By the time we reach retirement age most all of us have carpel tunnel, tinnitus & all different cancers from all the solvents, chemicals, etc.

A lot more than GM jobs will be lost because of this. For every 1 big three job lost there is something like 3 jobs lost because of the trickle down effect.

But why is that any different from a person who works for a dry cleaner as a spotter and will probably never see more than maybe $14 an hour after 25 years? Or a farmer who toils in the feilds around chemicals? There are a lot of jobs that pay a lot less and require an equal skill set. I'm sorry, but working on an assembly line is not a job that should merit the types of wages that are being paid.

Anne

 

[ducklite]

Quote:
Originally Posted by momof2inPA
Unions have taken concessions, nationwide. What do you want them to make, $7 an hour with no benefits? You try to support a family on that wage.







Do you honestly believe that anyone making $7 an hour could feed their families, have a place to live, pay car insurance, pay their own health care, and save for retirement? Anyone with a family making $7 an hour will be drawing help from the government. So yes the taxpayers would have to support them.

I am not saying that workers should be making $7 an hour. But many are making over $30 an hour, which IMHO is out of line for what basically amounts to unskilled labor, particularly in areas with low costs of living.

BTW--There are plenty of people here in Central Florida making that kind of wage, and living without government assistance. They aren't driving new cars or taking the kids on vacation every summer, but they are feeding their families and putting roofs over their heads.

Anne

 

[Planogirl]

It's hard to cut back on a salary even if it's high. People become accustomed and start to depend on that salary and it's always difficult to go back to a lower salary.

Luckily for them, the CEO's are usually unaffected by economic problems. I don't see bonuses and stock options dropping very often.

 

[ducklite]

It's hard to cut back on a salary even if it's high. People become accustomed and start to depend on that salary and it's always difficult to go back to a lower salary.

Luckily, the CEO's are usually unaffected by economic problems. I don't see bonuses and stock options dropping very often.

I agree. I can think of a couple--Lee Iacocca worked for Chrysler during their very dark days what, 20 some years ago. He worked for nothing but stock options if I'm not mistaken. That gave him a major incentive to turn the company around, which he did.

One of the airlines--was it US Air?--the CEO and several other officers took huge salary cuts a year or two ago when they asked their employees to do the same.

Not a corporation, but Bloomburg doesn't accept a salary from the City of New York. I believe that he does get paid, but donates his checks back to the General Fund. He has to actually paid in order to be covered under Workers Comp.

Anne

 

[Bob Slydell]

Luckily for them, the CEO's are usually unaffected by economic problems. I don't see bonuses and stock options dropping very often.

Well, in terms of stock options, since their value is directly tied to the stock price if the company's tanking, they're essentially worthless, so in a way, that is dropping their potential income.

I'm not saying CEOs don't make a ton of money, but many have been foregoing bonuses and pay raises these days.

 

[cardaway]

See, thats just it. With all due respect, while maybe not a 'bad person', too many americans are all about *me*.

Yes, we have to be good stewards of our money BUT we also have to look at the *big picture* and not be short sighted. Yes, its nice to save a few bucks here and there (and by few, it can mean hundreds in regards to autos).

But when masses of people do this very thing, what happens? We can potentially lose yet another industry in america.

Long term big picture -- how many more industries can we afford to lose? All industries create jobs far reaching beyond that industry, and that translates into more sales of consumer goods & services etc etc. Just think how many industries are at risk -- technology -- when is the last time you bought a tv made in america? Cameras? Clothing? Name anything that is easily found to be made in america, its tough to find.Just some food for thought...

I'm not making it all about me, the car companies made a decision back in the late 70's and they continue to pay for it. Their decision, not mine.

Maybe it's too unique of a situation but I work for a manufacturing company (medical equipment) that actually has a #1 market share in other countries. At certain times of the year we export more product than we sell domestically. We can do so because we sell a quality product. Any other company (GM) can do the same thing, but they chose to go different routes.

Cameras... same as our products. Even if they were made here many of the parts are made outside the U.S.

If you want to point at somebody thinking of only "me", point at the unions. They strike themselves out of jobs. They are the ones at fault for the current situation.

 

[Chicago526]

"Leaving aside unexpected medical expenses, if a retired family of two (and positively "one") cannot live on $33,600 a year, without living with or relying on their children, then they are doing something drastically wrong.."

A retired family of 2 could NOT live on that amount in Northern NJ. I am single and if I only made that amount I could not afford a car payment, house payment, gas, utility bills and food.

You could in the Chicago area though. I don't make much more than that, and when single I supported myself. I had a mortgage, car payment, and work related expenses (like work clothes and gasoline for my daily commute). I paid my bills every month with money left over. DH and I could easy retire on that amount of money, once you figure we'd have the house paid off and no commuting expenses.

 

[cardaway]

Well, in terms of stock options, since their value is directly tied to the stock price if the company's tanking, they're essentially worthless, so in a way, that is dropping their potential income.

I'm not saying CEOs don't make a ton of money, but many have been foregoing bonuses and pay raises these days.

They also have bosses (board of directors in some cases) just like everybody else. They have a job to do, and if they do it right, they get paid.

You can say they are like lawyers, evil no matter what, but the reality is that they are doing their job.

 

[Bob Slydell]

See, thats just it. With all due respect, while maybe not a 'bad person', too many americans are all about *me*.

Yes, we have to be good stewards of our money BUT we also have to look at the *big picture* and not be short sighted. Yes, its nice to save a few bucks here and there (and by few, it can mean hundreds in regards to autos).

I guess I am all about me, then, because I bought a Honda (which, BTW, was manufactured in Marysville, OH) because I liked it the most out of all the other vehicles we looked at. Far be it for me to not choose a vehicle I didn't like in order to save the country.

For the record, one of our other choices was a Chrysler (Town & Country), but considering they're now owned by a German company that wouldn't really be "buying American" now, would it?

 

[C.Ann]

Perhaps now, but have you accounted for inflation over the next 30 years? (Not trying to pick a fight, truly just wondering...)

Anne

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Certainly.. With what I'll have invested and the very small amount of money I choose to live on (which to me is comfortable) they're shouldn't be any problems at all..

And just as an aside, the odds of me living for another 30 years is very, very small..

 

[tandrjohn]

If you want to point at somebody think of only "me" point at the unions. They strike themselves out of the jobs. They are the ones at fault for the current situation.

There hasn't been a strike at GM since 1996 and that was only at one plant. Actually the UAW and the Big Three have been at peace for a relatively long time now. Do the unions have a hand in the recent troubles at GM, of course. I would argue, however, that a multitude of other factors are to blame as well - how about falling market share, a dismal product line, poor decision making by management, rising fuel prices, etc...I'm not a fan of the UAW, but their role in GM's troubles is minor at best.

 

[tandrjohn]

They also have bosses (board of directors in some cases) just like everybody else. They have a job to do, and if they do it right, they get paid.

You can say they are like lawyers, evil no matter what, but the reality is that they are doing their job.

In GM's case, getting paid millions while their company is losing hundreds of millions of dollars. I WANT THIS JOB!
Execs look out for their own (money wise), always have, always will.