GM to lay off 30,000 people

[dvcgirl]

OT, but my DH has a pension through his union (not the company, the union). How can you find out if it is under funded or not?

I keep telling him we can't count on it and we need to start an IRA for him, but he says "it will be fine". I already have a 401k through my employer, but I wanted to start something for DH in case the pension doesn't come through. I think I'll up my contribution after my next raise since DH doesn't want to start an IRA. But I'd like to check further into the stability of his union's pension if I can.

According to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp(Government entity), if your husband's union pension is guaranteed by them, they must give employees or in this case, members, written notice if their pension plan is funded only 80% or less within a year, and if it is funded to 90% or less...within a few years.

Keep in mind that USAir had been telling its employees that its pension plan was funed up to 90+%, and when they filed for Bankruptcy it was discovered that they were actually funded 34%.

 

[Chicago526]

According to the Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp(Government entity), if your husband's union pension is guaranteed by them, they must give employees or in this case, members, written notice if their pension plan is funded only 80% or less within a year, and if it is funded to 90% or less...within a few years.

Keep in mind that USAir had been telling its employees that its pension plan was funed up to 90+%, and when they filed for Bankruptcy it was discovered that they were actually funded 34%.

Lovely.

If DH refuses to start an IRA (he's "sure" about the pension, and also believes he'll die young just cuz his dad died young so he won't need a retirement fund anyway, but that's another thread) then I'll up my 401k contribution as much as I can, a little at a time, until I'm contributing the max. According to the retirement calculators, that should give us enough to retire, even if his "sure thing" pension and SS doesn't come through for us.

If I'm wrong, I'm more than happy to hear him say "I told you so" as we spend our extra retirement income on our dream month long WDW vacations and 2 week cruises!

If I'm right we won't have to eat cat food because the pension and SS checks don't show up.

 

[arminnie]

. I'm not that old, but didn't people pay part of the health care costs before HMO's came on the scene 20 or 30 years ago? I think my parents had a policy that was 80/20, this was in the late 70's. The insurance paid 80% and my parents paid 20%. Am I wrong or was this more the norm for the average American back then? If I'm right, then people managed back then, so I'm sure they'll manage now.

Well I am old, and I was just thinking about this. "Normal" insurance for years was basically to cover hospitalizations and major illness. I worked for some major corporations with what were considered to be "good" benefits. I NEVER expected my insurance to pay for my regular doctor visits. That was just something you paid out of pocket.

Insurance was for a major illness or surgery. I remember being so pleasantly surprised to find out that my post surgery doctor visits were covered. I paid 100% of a doctor's visit even if I was sick unless it was associated with being hospitalized.

I guess it was sometime in the 80s when I got an HMO and office visits were covered.

I guess I'm puzzled as to why we think employers should be providing 100% of health care costs. Employers don't pay for your food or housing (except in rare cases) and those are even more basic needs than medical care.

I've always looked at insurance as to be coverage of a RISK. You get car insurance to cover you in case you have an accident - not because you need to pay to have the oil changed.

 

[dvcgirl]

If people would buy American cars, then GM wouldn't be in this position. I hope everyone realizes that not just GM will be affected. Everyone that manufactures anything that is used in the making of cars will be affected. It is called the trickle down theory.

My family has always owned American as well as DH's family. We are all very happy with our GM cars and see no reason to change.

And again, if American cars were well made, more people would buy them. You may have had luck with your GM cars, but overall, Japanese cars, Toyota and Honda in particular are incredibly reliable and superior cars. And everyone who thinks that your buying all American products, take a look at the labels in your clothing sometime. It's an eye opener.

 

[dvcgirl]

Well I am old, and I was just thinking about this. "Normal" insurance for years was basically to cover hospitalizations and major illness. I worked for some major corporations with what were considered to be "good" benefits. I NEVER expected my insurance to pay for my regular doctor visits. That was just something you paid out of pocket.

Insurance was for a major illness or surgery. I remember being so pleasantly surprised to find out that my post surgery doctor visits were covered. I paid 100% of a doctor's visit even if I was sick unless it was associated with being hospitalized.

I guess it was sometime in the 80s when I got an HMO and office visits were covered.

I guess I'm puzzled as to why we think employers should be providing 100% of health care costs. Employers don't pay for your food or housing (except in rare cases) and those are even more basic needs than medical care.

I've always looked at insurance as to be coverage of a RISK. You get car insurance to cover you in case you have an accident - not because you need to pay to have the oil changed.

And like Chrissyk said, this is likely to be where the insurance industry is heading....back to the way it used to be. Coincidentally, we are both reading the same book right now..."The New Health Insurance Solution", and it talks a whole lot about employers going the route of high deductible health plans.


My DH are now actively researching taking out our own HDHP so that we can open a Health Savings Account. For all of our adult working lives we've had employer based health insurance and had to pay a small fee for the spouse benefit. Well, not that has gone up an incredible amount...$500 a month. So we'll take the small amount that they'll give DH for dropping their plan and get our own policy.

Employers who are taking out HDHPs for employees generally pay the much smaller premium and then take a small amount from the employees paycheck each month to fund the Health Savings Account, which the employee can then us to meet their deductible.

 

[arminnie]

If people would buy American cars, then GM wouldn't be in this position.

If everyone would just sent them a check for $1000, GM wouldn't be in this position either.

GM (or anyone else) has got to deliver a quality product. I swore I would never buy GM again after being so stung so badly. It was more than just the money - it was all of the times that my new expensive Olds broke down and left me stranded. It was the weeks that it spent at the dealership while they tried to figure out what was wrong.

But I did just buy a Pontiac Vibe - it may be the biggest mistake - I hope not. I just took my 9 year old Honda on a road trip because I want to make sure I can trust the Vibe by driving it around a bit first (and breaking it in.) It's made by Toyota so maybe I won't be totally screwed like with my previous GM purchases.

 

[mickman1962]

It's not the 1950's people. We are a GLOBAL economy. You can not buy American, we just don't make that much stuff here anymore. For all you people who keep saying it, take a close look at everything in your house and see where it actually comes from i.e. your HP/IBM/Dell/Apple your looking at this post on is by an American company whith probably no American parts. Likewise for almost every oth AMerican product in your house. Your Panasonic tv, a Chinese comapny bought the right to the name etc..

 

[LukenDC]

I am a human resources manager for a small nonprofit (50 employees). Employees must contribute $20 out of each paycheck for single coverage health insurance. If they want to provide for dependents, then they need to pay the difference between dependent care and single coverage. Every open season, there is at least one employee who can no longer afford to cover all of his/her family members and must go through the painful process of determining which child to remove from his/her insurance. It is heart breaking to watch.

My employer pays good wages and the employees who struggle with health insurance premiums have good jobs and average size families. They are not lazy, irresponsible, or bad parents. The cost of health care is increasing faster than the rate of inflation and hard working parents are caught in the middle.

High deductible plans are not the answer. Government, consumers, employers, the medical community, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and lawyers will all need to make sacrifices in order to reign in health care costs and provide a more equitable system. Unfortunately, with so many players the task of overhauling the health care system in this country is daunting.

 

[chrissyk]

And like Chrissyk said, this is likely to be where the insurance industry is heading....back to the way it used to be. Coincidentally, we are both reading the same book right now..."The New Health Insurance Solution", and it talks a whole lot about employers going the route of high deductible health plans.


My DH are now actively researching taking out our own HDHP so that we can open a Health Savings Account. For all of our adult working lives we've had employer based health insurance and had to pay a small fee for the spouse benefit. Well, not that has gone up an incredible amount...$500 a month. So we'll take the small amount that they'll give DH for dropping their plan and get our own policy.

Employers who are taking out HDHPs for employees generally pay the much smaller premium and then take a small amount from the employees paycheck each month to fund the Health Savings Account, which the employee can then us to meet their deductible.

I think that that book is fantastic information, don't you? I'm debating what we should do now. We have inexpensive employer-sponsored coverage, but I like the idea of getting the HDHP BEFORE either of us has a preexisting condition, KWIM? Also, I like the option of being about to fund the HSA basically as another retirement savings option.

The HDHP is exactly how insurance used to be if memory serves me. My folks paid for regular pediatrician visits for us out-of-pocket. The health insurance was for hospitalization. This was considered excellent BC/BS coverage in the '70's too. Why is it suddenly so bad to go back to this kind of coverage First-dollar coverage didn't even become popularly available until the advent of HMOs (which people also complained about).

 

[TnKrBeLlA012]

Something I found funny was a comment Rush said about a way GM can save money. Instead of laying off the workers, lay off the retiree's.

 

[chrissyk]

I am a human resources manager for a small nonprofit (50 employees). Employees must contribute $20 out of each paycheck for single coverage health insurance. If they want to provide for dependents, then they need to pay the difference between dependent care and single coverage. Every open season, there is at least one employee who can no longer afford to cover all of his/her family members and must go through the painful process of determining which child to remove from his/her insurance. It is heart breaking to watch.

My employer pays good wages and the employees who struggle with health insurance premiums have good jobs and average size families. They are not lazy, irresponsible, or bad parents. The cost of health care is increasing faster than the rate of inflation and hard working parents are caught in the middle.

High deductible plans are not the answer. Government, consumers, employers, the medical community, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies, and lawyers will all need to make sacrifices in order to reign in health care costs and provide a more equitable system. Unfortunately, with so many players the task of overhauling the health care system in this country is daunting.

Does your employer even offer a HDHP to it's employees? That option, in conjunction w/an HSA, may very well be a good answer for the employees who cannot afford to keep the first-dollar coverage plans for their entire families. Why are high-deductable plans the demon spawn of health insurance all of a sudden? 30 years ago, they were the norm.

 

[Planogirl]

It's all well and good to expect people to save for their own retirement above and beyond SS and pensions. But by the time a person pays taxes, benefit costs, social security, pension, 401K and then finally regu;ar bills, there's not that much left for many people. We can't all be high paid and can only do so much to stretch our income.

 

[cardaway]

GM (or anyone else) has got to deliver a quality product. I swore I would never buy GM again after being so stung so badly. It was more than just the money - it was all of the times that my new expensive Olds broke down and left me stranded. It was the weeks that it spent at the dealership while they tried to figure out what was wrong.

ITA.

The reason people stopped buying American is because once the shift happened, and Asian cars were cheaper with better quality, the Americans thought they could compete by cutting the cost with lower quality.

They were wrong. People would be stupid to do anything but buy the best quality car they can no mater where it is made. Not long ago that translated to an American car. These days it translates, for the most part, to anything but American cars.

 

[tandrjohn]

The quality of American-made cars is not as bad as you think - here are a couple of links. I would like to point out that just because you have had a problem with American cars, it doesn't necessarily mean that American cars as a whole are a problem - it was just your individual experience. FYI: I buy only Ford products. My FIL recently retired from Ford, I get a huge discount, I love their products, and I've never had a major problem.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089

J.D. Power and Associates Reports:
The Automotive Industry Records Substantial Long-Term Vehicle Quality Improvements

Lexus Ranks Highest in Vehicle Dependability for the 11th Consecutive Year;
General Motors and Ford Motor Company Earn Record Number of Model Awards
WESTLAKE VILLAGE, Calif.: 29 June 2005 — The automotive industry records an impressive 12 percent improvement in long-term vehicle quality, according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2005 Vehicle Dependability StudySM (VDS) released today.

The study, which measures problems experienced by original owners of 3-year-old (2002 model-year) vehicles, provides useful information to both consumers and the automotive industry on long-term vehicle quality. For consumers, the VDS offers insight into the reliability and dependability of brands and specific models as they approach the end of a typical warranty period. Manufacturers use this information to track the quality performance of their models over time to implement product improvement plans.

At the industry level, manufacturers have made a considerable leap in quality, with improvements across all categories. The industry average improves 32 problems per 100 vehicles (PP100) compared to 2004. In addition, nearly all nameplates and 84 percent of vehicle models included in the 2005 VDS also record year-over-year improvements. The categories showing the most significant improvements in 2005 include ride, handling and braking; engine; and interior.

"While the Initial Quality Study [IQS], which measures problems experienced in the first 90 days of ownership, can be an indicator of how models will perform over time, our studies consistently show that long-term durability is a tremendously important factor to consumers," said Chance Parker, executive director of product and research analysis at J.D. Power and Associates. "As the number of problems owners experience with their vehicles increases, repurchase intent and the number of recommendations owners will make to others decreases. The study also finds that long-term durability can have a significant impact on a vehicle’s retained value."

According to actual retail transaction data from the Power Information Network, a division of J.D. Power and Associates, 3-year-old vehicles of brands that perform above the industry average in VDS typically retain $1,000 more of their value than those of brands performing below the industry average.

Lexus, which ranks highest in vehicle dependability for the 11th consecutive year, improves 14 percent (23 PP100) compared to 2004.

Porsche makes the largest percentage improvement in its VDS score, while Hyundai experiences the largest reduction in problems reported by owners. Porsche, which ranks second among nameplates, improves 38 percent compared to 2004—a 91 PP100 improvement. Although still hovering below the industry average, Hyundai records a dramatic 115 PP100 improvement (31%).

"Hyundai experienced similar levels of improvement in the 2002 IQS, when these vehicles were new, which shows a successful effort by Hyundai in translating short-term quality improvements into higher long-term quality," said Parker. "Even though there is still room for improvement, Hyundai is a great example of an automaker that is making strides toward improving vehicle quality by paying close attention to owner feedback and designing products with both short- and long-term quality in mind."

General Motors models earn eight segment awards and Ford Motor Company models receive five segments awards —a record for both GM and Ford in VDS. Toyota Motor Corporation models receive four awards.

The Lexus LS 430, which earns a score of 90 PP100, is the first model in VDS history to receive fewer than 100 PP100. The LS 430 receives the premium luxury car segment award, and Lexus also receives awards for its RX 300 (entry luxury SUV) and LX 470 (premium luxury SUV) models.

Chevrolet captures the most segment awards, with the Prizm (compact car), Malibu (entry midsize car), S-10 Pickup (midsize pickup) and Silverado HD (heavy-duty full-size pickup) each earning an award in their respective segments. Ford receives three segment awards, for the Thunderbird (entry luxury car), Windstar (midsize van) and E-Series (full-size van).

The VDS is one of three J.D. Power and Associates quality metrics, along with IQS and the Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) Study, which measures customer perceptions on the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles. The results of the 2005 IQS were released in May and the 2005 APEAL Study is scheduled for release in late September.

The 2005 Vehicle Dependability Study is based on responses from 50,635 original owners of 2002 model-year cars and light trucks. For more information on vehicle ratings, visit the J.D. Power Consumer Center at www.jdpower.com.

And another one, there are more than a few American products and plants listed.

http://www.jdpower.com/awards/industry/winners.asp?StudyID=984&CatID=1

2005 Initial Quality Study (IQS) : Awardees

Award Recipient
Bronze Plant Quality Award in a Tie, Europe BMW of North America - Munich, Germany
Bronze Plant Quality Award in a Tie, Europe Porsche Cars North America, Inc. - Stuttgart, Ger
Bronze Plant Quality Award, Asia Pacific Nissan North America - Tochigi, Japan (N)
Bronze Plant Quality Award, North/South America General Motors Corporation - Hamtramck, MI
Gold Plant Quality Award Europe Ford Motor Company - Halewood, U.K.
Gold Plant Quality Award, North/South America General Motors Corporation - Oshawa #2, Ontario
Highest Ranked Compact Car in Initial Quality Toyota Prius
Highest Ranked Entry Luxury Car in Initial Quality Lexus IS 300/IS 300 SportCross
Highest Ranked Entry Luxury SUV in Initial Quality Lexus RX 330
Highest Ranked Entry Midsize Car in Initial Quality Chevrolet Malibu/Malibu Maxx
Highest Ranked Entry SUV in Initial Quality Toyota RAV4
Highest Ranked Full-Size Car in Initial Quality Buick LeSabre
Highest Ranked Full-Size SUV in Initial Quality Chevrolet Suburban
Highest Ranked Heavy Duty Full-Size Pickup in Initial Quality GMC Sierra HD
Highest Ranked Light Duty Full-Size Pickup in Initial Quality Ford F-150 LD
Highest Ranked Mid Luxury Car in Initial Quality Lexus GS 300/GS 430
Highest Ranked Midsize Pickup in Initial Quality Ford Explorer Sport Trac
Highest Ranked Midsize SUV in Initial Quality Toyota 4Runner
Highest Ranked Midsize Van in Initial Quality Toyota Sienna
Highest Ranked Premium Luxury Car in Initial Quality Lexus SC 430
Highest Ranked Premium Luxury SUV in Initial Quality Lexus GX 470
Highest Ranked Premium Midsize Car in Initial Quality Buick Century
Highest Ranked Premium Sports Car in Initial Quality Nissan 350Z
Highest Ranked Sporty Car in Initial Quality Scion tC
Platinum Plant Quality Award, Worldwide Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. - Tahara, Japan (
Silver Plant Quality Award, Asia Pacific Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. - Higashi-Fuji,
Silver Plant Quality Award, Europe BMW of North America - Regensburg, Germany
Silver Plant Quality Award, North/South America General Motors Corporation - Oshawa #1, Ontario

 

[dvcgirl]

It's all well and good to expect people to save for their own retirement above and beyond SS and pensions. But by the time a person pays taxes, benefit costs, social security, pension, 401K and then finally regu;ar bills, there's not that much left for many people. We can't all be high paid and can only do so much to stretch our income.

Well for one thing, if everyone contributed to their 401Ks, the only form of retirment savings for many, it would be a good start. One reason that the government is so worried about this issue (and they should be), is because people are not contributing to their 401Ks.

The statistics are really something and they're all over the place if you're listening for it. Clark Howard just did a piece on it....

25% of people who have 401Ks don't participate at all....don't even sign up.

So, 75% are putting something in, which sounds great, but only a small fraction within that group (25% of the savers) are putting in enough to get the company match (averages 6%). And so about 80% of Americans with 401Ks are saving less 6% of their salary.

Only 1 in 10 workers maxes out their 401K.

40-50% cash out (not rolling over)when they change jobs, paying the penalty and taking the money.

And only 40% of workers over 55 have over 100,000 saved for retirement. The bare minimum a person(or family) making 50,000 a year will need is $350,000 to supplement the shortfall Social Security. SS pays about 41% of the income for an "average worker"....and up to 56% of pay for low income workers. So....you can see why it's going to be a big, big problem for us down the road if we don't wake up.

 

[rockin_rep]

The quality of American-made cars is not as bad as you think - here are a couple of links. I would like to point out that just because you have had a problem with American cars, it doesn't necessarily mean that American cars as a whole are a problem - it was just your individual experience. FYI: I buy only Ford products. My FIL recently retired from Ford, I get a huge discount, I love their products, and I've never had a major problem.

http://www.jdpower.com/news/releases/pressrelease.asp?ID=2005089

I totally agree, thanks for sharing that link.

We've always bought American for a very simple reason ~ because we are American and live in America! Our grandparents were immigrants and instilled in our parents and they in us, a great love of country. It supercedes any minor difference we might find in quality.

Sounds simple, and yes, indeed it is.
Flame or laugh, i couldn't care less. It needs to be said, and often!
(plus i have an MBA and a healthy self image )

Regardless of minor differences in quality and value between foreign and domestic, there is such a trickle down effect that it DOES indeed effect EVERYONE in some way or other. Clearly america can not afford to lose yet another industry.

Besides that, we've had an excellent experience with all our vehicles, as we've established a great working relationship with our dealers. Sometimes we lease, sometimes we buy, sometimes we have company cars. All american. (yes i'm aware that some parts are made in other countries)

Again, as long as i live in America, while i know its not always easy, I will buy American as much as possible.

 

[wdw4us2]

We've always bought American for a very simple reason ~ because we are American and live in America! Our grandparents were immigrants and instilled in our parents and they in us, a great love of country. It supercedes any minor difference we might find in quality.

Sounds simple, and yes, indeed it is.
Flame or laugh, i couldn't care less. It needs to be said, and often!

Regardless of minor differences in quality and value between foreign and domestic, there is such a trickle down effect that it DOES indeed effect EVERYONE in some way or other. Clearly america can not afford to lose yet another industry.

Again, as long as i live in America, while i know its not always easy, I will buy American as much as possible.

Well said, I totally agree. (BTW, I have NEVER owned a foreign auto.)

 

[C.Ann]

for retirement. The bare minimum a person(or family) making 50,000 a year will need is $350,000 to supplement the shortfall Social Security. .

-------------------------------------

Depending on the lifestyle one chooses to live, I think $350,000 to supplement SS is totally unrealistic - unless you're including medical expenses in that figure..

There are many, many books and magazine articles out there that debunk the astronomical figures that are being thrown at people.. It's always good to get a "balanced" view and not just run with the chicken little scenario..

 

[eclectics]

ITA.

The reason people stopped buying American is because once the shift happened, and Asian cars were cheaper with better quality, the Americans thought they could compete by cutting the cost with lower quality.

They were wrong. People would be stupid to do anything but buy the best quality car they can no mater where it is made. Not long ago that translated to an American car. These days it translates, for the most part, to anything but American cars.

Actually the quality of American cars started declining about 1970 and hit it's poor quality peak in the 1980's. It started getting better in the 90's and today is actually pretty good and for the most part is comparable to most foreign cars except for maybe the high end vehicles like Lexus and perhaps a few Mercedes and BMW models. I think the problem is a lot of people remember those 70's and 80's nightmares and don't realize that American quality is a lot better today.

 

[jodifla]

I think that that book is fantastic information, don't you? I'm debating what we should do now. We have inexpensive employer-sponsored coverage, but I like the idea of getting the HDHP BEFORE either of us has a preexisting condition, KWIM? Also, I like the option of being about to fund the HSA basically as another retirement savings option.

The HDHP is exactly how insurance used to be if memory serves me. My folks paid for regular pediatrician visits for us out-of-pocket. The health insurance was for hospitalization. This was considered excellent BC/BS coverage in the '70's too. Why is it suddenly so bad to go back to this kind of coverage First-dollar coverage didn't even become popularly available until the advent of HMOs (which people also complained about).

Yeah, I remember this as a kid in the '60s and '70s. And I also remember doctor's visits were $25, and test costs were reasonable too.

Good luck trying to do everything with a Health Savings Account. Get real. You'll be bankrupt with your first real illness.