Gay Days 2002

[Chuck S]

W & J - Disney DOES hold all guests to certain standards of decorum, I've seen CMs enforce dress policies - guys are asked to put their shirts on, if they'd removed them - this happens EVERYDAY in the summer heat, not just GayDay.

Disney DOES notify guests that the MK is expecting a large crowd, and that it may affect their enjoyment of the MK. I think it is very accommodating of WDW to open the other parks an hour early for the enjoyment of on-site guests.

So, I think Disney probably is meeting all of your complaints already.

 

[campingcorgi]

We were staying at FW during this time, and we did NOT get a letter telling us that the other parks were opening early or that large crowds were to be expected at MK. We were quite aware of the event, but were not informed by Disney. We have gotten the letter in years past, though.

 

[lisaost]

These posts really get under my skin. I wish people would just go to the parks on Gay Days and see people with their partners, and children, and families having a good time and maybe we could all get a little closer to accepting people the way they are. Yet some still feel the need to be sheltered from or to avoid "THEM". It makes me so sad. "THEY" are our brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers, friends, neighbors, teachers - in short, part of our society every day. We share our days with people from all walks of life every day and usually we hardly ever notice our differences. As for people making social statements, last I checked the most American of all freedoms is freedom of speech. If someone wants to wear a gay pride tee shirt to the park, they exercise the same right as the person who wears a Nascar tee shirt. I don't think it's name calling to say someone is intollerant if they want to single out homosexuals to be avoided. That's the definition of intollerance. I'm sorry if it offends - please I am not 'calling names' - I am just trying to express how I feel because like I said, these posts really sadden me. If someone wants to avoid gay days, then it's their right to do so. But maybe you should keep it to yourself because based on these posts, I'd say it's not gays that are to be avoided....it's the intollerant people I don't want my children exposed to.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Lisaost: Thank you for your post.

Walt&Julie: I am confused as to where the "name-calling" started, but then that's one of the dangers of posting on message boards. Since I must have offended you with my previous post, I sincerely apologize. That was not my intent, although it obviously came across that way. I am sorry for that.

One last thought:

I remember watching the clip of Walt Disney opening Disneyland many times. What sticks in my mind are his words that everyone is welcome to the happiest place on earth. I don't recall him excluding any group based on any criteria, including the number of people from that group that choose to come on any particular day.

I know I could learn some lessons from Walt about tolerance.

 

[waltandjulie]

Niether Vapoohbear nor I indicated that anybody should be refused admittance to any park. This was read into our posts to make our positions seem unreasonable....

What I did say, and continue to believe, is that some "groups" don't fit as well with the family theme of WDW as others. Disagree, if you will, but I think you are fooling yourselves. A group of 10 or 50 or 100 probably wouldn't do this, but a group of the size mentioned certainly would change the atmosphere of the park. This is particularly true where the members of the group tend to define themselves by their membership in that group.

What I have suggested is that Disney try to make a realistic analysis of the situation, and accept the fact that this may diminish from the enjoyment of some significant number of guests, and thus let them know. Label these people intollerent if you must, but isn't this just the type of thing that many have indicated that they wish to avoid.

Of course, all individuals are welcome. The only one to suggest anything different are those that have suggested that they wished to keep their children away from those individuals that they have labeled as intolerant.

 

[Chuck S]

Originally posted by waltandjulie


What I have suggested is that Disney try to make a realistic analysis of the situation, and accept the fact that this may diminish from the enjoyment of some significant number of guests, and thus let them know. Label these people intollerent if you must, but isn't this just the type of thing that many have indicated that they wish to avoid.

Am I missing a point? Isn't that what this does in a way that isn't offensive to anyone?

The flyer from my room

June 2002

Dear Walt Disney World Resort Hotel Guest,

Welcome to the Walt Disney World Resort! We are excited that you chose the Walt Disney World Resort for your vacation destination, and we hope you enjoy your stay with us.

On Saturday, June 1, we are expecting a very busy day at the Magic Kingdom Park. To ensure that everyone has a chance to take full advantage of what our Theme Parks have to offer, on this day we will open Disney's Animal Kingdom Theme Park and the Disney-MGM Studios at 8:00 a.m. exclusively for our Resort Guests. The Magic Kingdom Park and Epcot will open at 9:00 a.m.

We hope this information enables you to better plan your time with us.

We wish you a magical stay!

Sincerely,

The Cast of the Walt Disney World Resort

 

[tonygowell]

What about my sexual orientation is political????

Walt and Julie , there were no pamphlets being passed out. I was there to ride rides with my partner and my friends and have my picture taken with Pooh.

Trust me, the best chance for a kid to have a good time is during GayDays.

Most of us don't have children, so the quality time they got to spend with characters were vastly increased.

The ride times for kiddie attractions were dramatically shortened so what's the problem?

How dare you classify a group of people like Gays/Lesbians/Bisexuals, etc.. with hate groups like KKK or skinheads.

We are in no way similar.

I don't hate you, or think I'm superior.
More open minded, yes, superior...no.

But you are given the freedom of tax breaks, legal marriages, legal adoption, and countless other rights that are denied to me. Those are political statements, and if they bother you...that's just too damn bad.

After all, where would you be Julie...without the LESBIAN efforts of Susan B. Anthony and others like her that helped give you the right to work, get a pay check, vote, and attend town meetings?? I'll tell you where...

you'd be tending house with all those babies you would be having, because you wouldn't dare tell your husband you have a headache. Cooking and cleaning would be all that you would be able to openly do. Good luck getting an education further than middle school. Any reading or writing done would be under the approval of the man of the house. There's no room for creativity as you know...you might get strange ideas.

So you tell me you discriminating bigot? Where's the politics in my vacation???

I want even begin to go into other minority groups and the descriminating factors they face in this country from Republican white men.

So if I want to take a vacation to Disney World with others like myself...I will. Disney shouldn't 'warn' anyone about anything. We're all there to have a good time and spend our EQUALLY green money.


You have a nice day.

 

[jldriscoll]

tonygowell ....

I am blown away by your well thought out response.

I would only like to say that the resort guest letter posted by Chuck S was a smart move on Disney's part. I say that because Disney was expecting an extrodinary number of GUESTS at MK and if my family were there, a heads up would have been nice so we could choose another park if we wanted. I want to emphasis I said we would choose a different park ONLY BECAUSE OF THE SIZE OF THE CROWD expected.

The group could be 5 headed green beings from another planet, if they don't make my wait too long for HM...... I'd enjoy the company!

 

[lisaost]

waltandjulie - the failure in your argument is that your statement that certain 'groups' don't fit in with the family theme of WDW assumes that the people attending gay days are not there with THEIR families. I assume that you refer to a family as a mother, a father and 2.3 children. I'm sorry but some people's families don't fit your mold or the mold that you believe Disney is marketing themselves to. I think perhaps it is you who are 'fooling yourself' to think Disney doesn't want people of all colors, races, religions or sexual orientations attending their parks. As was said above.....all our money is still green.

What you suggested that Disney do....Disney did. They informed people and let them make their own decision. Obviously, that was not enough for you. You want Disney to tell you that it's Gay Days so you can avoid the gay persons - right?

So if that's the case, I stand by my original post - word for word.

 

[waltandjulie]

Thanks tonygowell...You've proven my point wonderfully....

I'm sure others can decide for themselves whether there are any politics in your post.

Signing off....

 

[tonygowell]

My post was political...my vacation was not....

But please understand this...if all the GLBT population of Disney World went somewhere else so you could enoy your vacation...

Your non political mind would be exercised thoroughly as you figured out how to turn the attraction on so you could ride it. Of course, that's if there were anyone working the turnstiles to let you in.

Without us there would be no zoos or theme parks, cruise lines or Hollywood,
and there certainly wouldn't be ANY Disney programming/cartoons.

Yet the glorification of the 99.9% of welfare cases remains to be heterosexuals, causing all of our tax dollars to go up.

I'm thrilled that we have a motivation to get a job and not have children once a year....aren't you?

I won't even begin on capital hill budget cuts in AIDS research.....silly boys don't realize that the GLBT community now ranks last on the yearly reports for disease contractions.

Yep, straights are at the top.
Go figure.....you're voting to kill yourselves..

Apparently the societal slant that only gays can get it still holds true today.

Now , that my dear....is a political statement

 

[crazyforgoofy]

Never been to WDW during GayDays but wish I could be there sometime. And I'd like to bring my daughter and her partner with me. When we were there last Christmas time they were the couple who wasn't holding hands and didn't smooch and pose for pictures under the mistletoe because they didn't want others to feel uncomfortable or to be treated rudely. If going during a time when lots of gay and lesbian couples were there would allow them to feel free to act like everyone else even for the day I'd be thrilled. And at the risk of being "political", I don't believe homosexuality is a "lifestyle" or a "choice", it just is.

 

[SillyGirl]

This whole thread is incredibly sad. That people can be so intolerant is amazing, however you can't very well come down on them about being intolerant because then you'd be a hypocrite. What a horrible catch-22.

I don't want to tolerate other people's intolerance, but I have to realize it takes all kinds. I think it's a moot point that WDW did what they should have done in warning resort guests that they expected a large crowd of PEOPLE.

It seems the issue has gotten much more personal (which these conversations often do) and since we all know that narrow minded people can't see past the end of their nose it's hard to argue with them.

Everyone is part of a family. If you're at all religious then you believe we're all part of the SAME family. Disney is for families. Discrimination is bad! What a way to teach your children to be bigots.

Careful, you might catch GAY!

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by SillyGirl
This whole thread is incredibly sad. That people can be so intolerant is amazing, however you can't very well come down on them about being intolerant because then you'd be a hypocrite. What a horrible catch-22.

I completely agree with you. The fact that a discussion/thread like this is possible simply shows how far we still have to go in dealing with discrimination, not just about sexual orientation, but discrimination on dozens of other areas.

 

[ragamuffin]

Everyone is part of a family. If you're at all religious then you believe we're all part of the SAME family. Disney is for families. Discrimination is bad! What a way to teach your children to be bigots.

I'm sure for some people they just don't like gays. But for me and I'm sure a lot of others, they don't like the fact that the gay lifestyle is seen as a perfectly healthy way of living that is pre-determined and "once you realize you're gay, then you have to accept it." Fact is that although many studies have been devised to attempt to prove a gay gene, most have met with inconclusive evidence and have proven that the gay lifestyle is at least partially resultant from one's environment. And even if it was genetically related, that doesn't mean its the way you have to be, as many disorders such as manic depression and schizophrenia are also linked to genetics.

I AM NOT intolerant, i just want people to know that there are other choices and that they can change. MY life changed because of my FAITH, not because of religion. I was living in a certain way and did not want to continue in that way because of my convictions. I've read wonderful stories about men and women who "came out" of their homosexual lifestyles and now live lives they had never dreamed of.

I'm sure this will offend many, but I guess I have the right to an opinion.

**Going back to the original message, No you should not get a refund - if you would have read these boards or almost any other disney information site over the last year you would know exactly when gay days are held and it is not Disney's responsibility to notify anyone of events that they are not sponsoring.

 

[lisaost]

I AM NOT intolerant, i just want people to know that there are other choices and that they can change.

Oh my God....I don't even know where to begin so I'm just going to say if you really believe people CAN change, then there IS hope for you yet.

I am sick to my stomach now.

 

[SillyGirl]

Originally posted by ragamuffin

....most have met with inconclusive evidence and have proven that the gay lifestyle is at least partially resultant from one's environment. And even if it was genetically related, that doesn't mean its the way you have to be, as many disorders such as manic depression and schizophrenia are also linked to genetics.

#1. I don't think a short vacation where children are subjected to people who are same sex oriented will "turn them gay".

#2. I'm not sure how you can link manic depression and schizophrenia to being gay. If you are gay you can't take a pill to make you "all better."

I know many people who are gay although I am not myself. It never seems to be a choice. It just is. Some have been in traditional marriages and they try to conform to societal standards but it's not who they really are.

Why are some people attracted to the opposite sex? Because you're told to? or because you just are?

Sorry, that was all off topic, but more on topic is the fact that just because there is a large group of same sex couples in one location doesn't mean it's an orgy and chances are your kids aren't going to be ruined by seeing a few people of the same sex holding hands, hugging or heaven forbid, kissing.

Sure, some people are uncomfortable with it, mostly stemming (in my opinion) from a lack of self assurance with their own sexuality and inability to be tolerant of differing ways of life.

 

[docswkids]

The best part of living in the United States of America is that you are free to choose your religion(if you choose to have one), career, friends, loved ones, beliefs and you also have the right to go to public places and not be discriminated against for those choices. Ragamuffin, I dont think anyone on this board was asking for an opinion poll about whether or not you agree with a gay lifestyle. You probably dont agree with my religion either, but would you openly object to Jew days at disney world?

 

[~Czarina~]

Personally, we were there during one of the cheerleading camps/exhibits, whatever and I was extremely aggitated. The kids were disrespectful and pushy and there seemed to be very little adult supervision, GENERALLY. I did meet some pleasant girls also. However, I would never knowingly go to WDW when they are going to be there or if they have a designated park for a day, I would avoid it like the plague. Gay Day is another time that I, personally, would avoid. Any time a specific group is established at a park, others are ostrasized. I don't think it is a lack of compassion or acceptance. It is simply getting enough information to make a intelligent decision.

I don't understand why this is a political debate. Just because the words gay or lesbian are used does NOT mean this is politically motivated or a religious 'thing.' I think it is simply a respect for others and getting the most possible information out so people can decide.

Czarina's mom because I couldn't figure out how to get on MY sn. I am not computer literate. I suppose there will be responses that I am not literate in other ways too, but so be it.

 

[Nuts4Disney]

Vapoohbear:

1st let me say Welcome! We always like to meet new friends here at The DIS!

Unfortunately, I neither agree with you nor understand your initial post. I do not think that you made clear what happened at GAYDAYS that ruined your vacation. Did something happen? Or was it simply the fact that there were many people who chose to identify themselves as Gay at the park that day?

I have attended Gay Days in the past with my [DH=Dear Honey] Partner, adorned in red shirts, & we have never witnessed any inappropriate behavior on GAYDAY. I would not like to bear witness to inappropriate behavior by anyone, either.

Despite what others may choose to believe, our intention of attending GAYDAYS is the same intention we have on any other visit to WDW -- to enjoy WDW. I believe that is the intention of most, if not all, of the other attendees. Gays hold a "March on Washington" to make political statements not GAYDAYS.

There is a whole history behind GAYDAYS, but the bottom line is it is a day of "Pride." It is very sad to me if just the fact that Gays are more "visible" to you on that day makes you that uncomfortable, if that is what you are saying. Gays are around all the time, at the MK & elsewhere. Perhaps you just haven't noticed us.

I'd also like to give my opinion on your question of a refund. I'm sorry, but I do not think that WDW would feel you warrant a refund because, as others have said, with a hopper pass you had a choice to leave MK & go to another park without it costing you any more money. It is a shame if you did not do that. It is also a shame if 1 day, or a few hours of 1 day, ruined your family's entire vacation.

IMHO, it is also not up to WDW to give refunds to guests because of their personal biases against other paying guests of WDW. There is another reason that I do not believe that WDW would offer you a refund. I am friends with several CMs at WDW. They have told me that some guests, though I am not saying this is you, try to capitalize on GAYDAYS by complaining profusely that it ruined their vacation & then seek refunds/comps.


[QUOTE by WaltandJulie]
One more thought before I lose my steam....

Cheerleaders - welcome.
School bands - welcome.
International tour groups - annoying, but welcome.
KKK, skin heads, gay pride, PETA, anarchists, etc. - no thanks.
KKK[/QUOTE]

WaltandJulie: I believe that people got the impression that you were "intolerant" by your above post. I also think they were more than gracious in offering you an apology if they offended you by their response to your statement. Your own words speak volumes! IMHO, you seem more interested in inflaming others than answering Vapoohbear's question.