Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[jennypenny]

I'm just going off the alligator facts in the CNN article. It's not a common thing for gators to attack far off the shoreline. It's definitely possible but I don't understand people saying you should not be allowed on beaches.

I can't see closing the beaches during the day. At night? I'm not sure. If they leave them open, they'll have to change the signage which I'm sure they're already doing.

I draw a distinction, though, between having the beaches open at night with proper warning signs and Disney holding events on the beach at night. Events like the movies not only encourage people to be on the beach at night but also include activities that distract them from watching the water for any signs of predators.

I'm not arguing that this is all Disney's fault. It was a horrible rare occurrence. Was it completely unforeseeable though? And did Disney increase the odds of it happening by actively encouraging people to come to the beach at night? That's where I think they need to reexamine their safety protocols.

I feel the same way when I see people getting drunk at Typhoon Lagoon. I get serving alcohol around the resort pools, but the wave pool at TL is a different story and IMO an accident waiting to happen. If it happened, would it be an accident? Sure. Would it be the person's fault for swimming drunk? Sure. Could Disney have prevented the accident by not serving alcohol around an intense water attraction? Hmm ... see what I'm saying?

 

[Bianca and Bernard]

And here's a (small) example of the food chain with the alligator.

http://swampplan.weebly.com/food-chain.html

Burmese Python
Alligator
Fish
Grasshopper
Grass
Sun


No alligator, more Pythons...which, BTW, can eat a full grown alligator.
Think about that....

 

[Mac30188]

And so can people.

There is no one sure fire solution, but I am not sure I would say fences are not effective. A fence would be extremely effective in keeping people out of the water. In fact, a fence is the most basic standard line of defense for keeping people out of dangerous areas. Most pools in the world have fences around it to keep people who can't swim out of danger. It is a hell of a lot easier to ignore a sign and put your toes in the water of a lake than climb a fence. There is an extremely high likelihood the father would not have scaled a fence with his toddler to get to the water. Those who climb fences to get to dangerous areas are certainly taking extra effort to go in harms way and it is indefensible to say, "I didn't know I wasn't suppose to be here." Finally an alligator who climbs a fence and is sitting in your "back yard" is extremely less dangerous than one lurking in murky water due to being able to see it. Most people are not going to walk up to an alligator or a snake. The danger comes when people just don't see them.

The con to a fence is it would be extremely difficult to do in an appropriate manner for that section of a theme park. A simple chain link fence, while effective, would not be the right choice to put up on beaches to keep people out of the water. A better solution is you could add an additional, better trained, security/lifeguard presence to constantly monitor/ensure people do not go swimming and achieve the same results as a fence. The goal is to keep people from mindlessly walking past and ignoring the sign. IMHO, since Disney has a recreational area on the very edge of a dangerous body of water, they do have to take a little more extra precautions than just putting up a small sign. It just doesn't have to be extreme. Increase the number of gator patrols to match the growing gator population, retrain CMs on a new process on how they effectively monitor and police water fronts (especially at night), put more descriptive signs up probably would be the first actions they should take. I just don't think it is accurate to say a fence wouldn't work because an alligator can go over it. A fence would absolutely be effective in keeping people from going where the alligators hunt. It just may not be the right answer.

 

[LSLS]

And here's a (small) example of the food chain with the alligator.

http://swampplan.weebly.com/food-chain.html

Burmese Python
Alligator
Fish
Grasshopper
Grass
Sun


No alligator, more Pythons...which, BTW, can eat a full grown alligator.
Think about that....

That site seems strange. it makes it sound like killing the pythons is a bad thing (or that they are important for regulating alligators). They are an invasive species and if you ask any ecologist/expert, there is a HUGE fear that they will overrun the everglades (if they haven't already). Tons of studies showing how native populations have drastically declined based on spatial and temporal ranges of the pythons.

 

[Mac30188]

I can't see closing the beaches during the day. At night? I'm not sure. If they leave them open, they'll have to change the signage which I'm sure they're already doing.

I draw a distinction, though, between having the beaches open at night with proper warning signs and Disney holding events on the beach at night. Events like the movies not only encourage people to be on the beach at night but also include activities that distract them from watching the water for any signs of predators.

I'm not arguing that this is all Disney's fault. It was a horrible rare occurrence. Was it completely unforeseeable though? And did Disney increase the odds of it happening by actively encouraging people to come to the beach at night? That's where I think they need to reexamine their safety protocols.

I feel the same way when I see people getting drunk at Typhoon Lagoon. I get serving alcohol around the resort pools, but the wave pool at TL is a different story and IMO an accident waiting to happen. If it happened, would it be an accident? Sure. Would it be the person's fault for swimming drunk? Sure. Could Disney have prevented the accident by not serving alcohol around an intense water attraction? Hmm ... see what I'm saying?

I completely agree that the beaches are in among themselves safe, but they do encourage people to play on the "edge of the cliff." The line between fun play area we encourage you to be at and dangerous body of water is a very thin line of small signs. If all they do is replace the signs, all it would take is someone inadvertently miss the sign and the tragedy could repeat.

 

[dac7265]

There was an interview with the man that was attacked in the 80"s. This was on wcvb channel 5 in Boston.

 

[mcjaco]

I've now missed twenty pages of discussion, but as I listened to the press conference on CNN via Sirius, a couple thoughts:

1) What happened to Jake Tapper? He stinks now. At one point he reported they were draining the Lagoon....
2) I actually thought they divulged more info during the press conference then they would. Names, etc.
3) As tragic as an event as this was, I'm relieved the body was found and there will be closure for the family. I feared the worst.
4) It was erroneously reported all day yesterday that there was a lifeguard on the beach. There was not. They had to go get one from the pool.
5) We keep hearing about the signage on the beach. As I've never stayed on property, are there signs when entering the beach? What do those show?

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I can't see closing the beaches during the day. At night? I'm not sure. If they leave them open, they'll have to change the signage which I'm sure they're already doing.

I draw a distinction, though, between having the beaches open at night with proper warning signs and Disney holding events on the beach at night. Events like the movies not only encourage people to be on the beach at night but also include activities that distract them from watching the water for any signs of predators.

That last sentence really says it all for me. If you are hosting a movie in an area where you also need to be watching for dangerous predators, you need a new place to watch your movie.

 

[rteetz]

I've now missed twenty pages of discussion, but as I listened to the press conference on CNN via Sirius, a couple thoughts:

1) What happened to Jake Tapper? He stinks now. At one point he reported they were draining the Lagoon....
2) I actually thought they divulged more info during the press conference then they would. Names, etc.
3) As tragic as an event as this was, I'm relieved the body was found and there will be closure for the family. I feared the worst.
4) It was erroneously reported all day yesterday that there was a lifeguard on the beach. There was not. They had to go get one from the pool.
5) We keep hearing about the signage on the beach. As I've never stayed on property, are there signs when entering the beach? What do those show?

The only signs on the beaches of Disney resorts are no swimming.

 

[rteetz]

That last sentence really says it all for me. If you are hosting a movie in an area where you also need to be watching for dangerous predators, you need a new place to watch your movie.

I think they might move the movie now however it was never a problem before. Moving the movie also doesn't mean people still won't go on the beach or even in the water.

 

[jknc]

That last sentence really says it all for me. If you are hosting a movie in an area where you also need to be watching for dangerous predators, you need a new place to watch your movie.

I agree the movies need to and will be moved from the beaches at those resorts, but how many thousands of movies have been shown over the years without incident?

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I think they might move the movie now however it was never a problem before. Moving the movie also doesn't mean people still won't go on the beach or even in the water.

Oh, for sure it won't, but I also think they should increase the signage as well. I know even that won't stop everyone. But you really can't stop everyone. I do think people with small children would think twice if they saw a sign with an alligator on it and those are the people who would benefit most. Alligators don't usually go for adults.

 

[theSurlyMermaid]

I agree the movies need to and will be moved from the beaches at those resorts, but how many thousands of movies have been shown over the years without incident?

Thousands. But it only takes once and it really isn't a big deal to move the movie. The horror what might happen, however rare and unlikely, far outweighs the benefits of watching a film with a beach-like ambience, IMO.

 

[rteetz]

Oh, for sure it won't, but I also think they should increase the signage as well. I know even that won't stop everyone. But you really can't stop everyone. I do think people with small children would think twice if they saw a sign with an alligator on it and those are the people who would benefit most. Alligators don't usually go for adults.

I agree. It's just unfortunate a situation like this had to happen for us to realize that no swimming signs aren't enough.

 

[dlavender]

Just catching up, I'm shocked at those who think burning your tongue with coffee is even in the same ballpark as an alligator eating your child. You are arguing just to argue when you make statements like that.

Again, I ask those who somehow think a sign that says "no swimming" gives a better warning than a sign that says, "alligators present, do not go near the water", why have any signs if they don't do anything? And are you serious when you think that? It's really just a fact that the latter clearly spells out the danger. Again, you are just arguing just to argue. Why does Disney place specific risks on their ride warning signs? Seems like a lot of wasted effort, doesn't it?

 

[mcjaco]

Absolutely right that no amount of signage will stop everyone, but it does limit legal liability in these situations. I'm kind of surprised there aren't signs when entering the beaches. Not a very Disney, or any other premises owner, thing to do. Even the beaches in Chicago have warning signs before walking out onto them.....odd.

 

[mcjaco]

Just catching up, I'm shocked at those who think burning your tongue with coffee is even in the same ballpark as an alligator eating your child. You are arguing just to argue when you make statements like that.

Again, I ask those who somehow think a sign that says "no swimming" gives a better warning than a sign that says, "alligators present, do not go near the water", why have any signs if they don't do anything? And are you serious when you think that? It's really just a fact that the latter clearly spells out the danger. Again, you are just arguing just to argue. Why does Disney place specific risks on their ride warning signs? Seems like a lot of wasted effort, doesn't it?

Specific warning signs on rides are often regulated by the state and the manufacturer. You're arguing apples and oranges.

 

[romitaz]

Never said they could. Might want to read through. I said they should just make sure people know that they routinely pull 4-5 gators out of that lagoon every day. Let them know that there are alligators in the lagoon. Stay out or assume the risk.

Where are you getting this bit of info???? I have not seen a single shred of info on the number of alligators that are removed each year, let alone each DAY. Please enlighten me.

 

[Mac30188]

I think they might move the movie now however it was never a problem before. Moving the movie also doesn't mean people still won't go on the beach or even in the water.

Agree. This certainly won't hurt, but does it solve enough of the problem? Probably not. There are still many other reasons to be on the beach at night. What about fireworks or water pageant? The more I think about it, staff is the best answer. For example, a single security guard monitors the open walkway between exiting a plane and baggage area to serve as a barrier to prevent the danger of people bypassing security at an airport. Well educated staff can serve as an effective invisible fence to keep people out of the water.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Did I actually see somebody advocate eradicating the alligator population to control the invasive Burmese pythons that typically stupid floridians bought back in the 70's and 80's and released?

Nah...that didn't happen...that would be the most "American" comment ever.

Nope...I think I'm done too. We've crossed over to the alternate universe.

"Scotty, beam me up"