Gap, Old Navy censor 'Christmas,'

[beachblanket]

you haven't shown any justification why we should require a private business to say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays.

No one (except left wing secularists who like to misquote) is proposing that businesses be mandated to say anything. What I and some others are objecting to is businesses mandating that their employees not be allowed to state the name of a holiday celebrated by the overwhelming majority - something being justified by simplistic left wing secularists who presume inclusiveness mandates removing any and all symbols of the majority.

Nore (SIC) have you shown any justification to treat those in the minority differently.

Treat them differently? Who is proposing that? Is anyone saying you can't tell an African American "Have a Nice Kwanzaa?" (albeit be prepared for some to roll their eyes in response, since many don't really celebrate it). No.

Is anyone saying you can't wish a Jew a wonderful Chanukah? No. Frankly, those I work and socialize with appreciate that MUCH more than the diluted "Happy Holidays" crap. As I do with them wishing me a Merry Christmas.

Bottom line: left wing secularists need to pay attention to what the opposition is and isn't saying.

And here's some good news:

Christmas "diminishers" lose on Long Island

 

[Laura]

Yes, but the only thing is most people do NOT include New Years in "Happy Holidays". Most people actually do say "Happy New Year".

Uh, okay. I haven't seen any polls on it. I say "Happy New Year" on New Year's Day, or if I won't see someone until January 1 and it's after Christmas.

Still, none of this explains why stores can't be nice to their non-Christian customers by saying "Happy Holidays".

 

[Laura]

No one (except left wing secularists who like to misquote) is proposing that businesses be mandated to say anything. What I and some others are objecting to is businesses mandating that their employees not be allowed to state the name of a holiday celebrated by the overwhelming majority - something being justified by simplistic left wing secularists who presume inclusiveness mandates removing any and all symbols of the majority.

Stores may choose to instruct their workers on the lingo they should use to greet customers. It's pretty standard practice. I don't know why some Christians get bent out of shape about "Happy Holidays" when it isn't excluding Christmas. If the store wants to plaster "Merry Christmas" all over the place, that's their right. They choose how they present themselves to customers. I don't know any "left wing secularists" who wrote in to Gap or wherever to demand the removal of "any and all symbols of the majority." It seems to me that the minority of Christians who get their panties in a wad over this need to get a grip.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

I'm a practicing Catholic and my family celebrates Christmas in December and Advent IS part of Christmas. Immacualte Conception is a 'Holy Day of Obligation' but we don't 'celebrate' it like we do Christmas just like we don't celebrate all Holy Days of Obligations and feasts and Saint's day's like we do Christmas (and Easter).

I know of a few European communities that celebrate, in a small way, St. Nicholas' Day and/or The Epiphany in January but Christmas is still their main holiday in December.

Really, you can find a feast or a Saint's day almost every single day of the year on the Catholic calendar. Doesn't mean we 'celebrate' each of them.

If you look at a calendar with all holidays and observances, you'd see that we should just say Happy Holidays all year round, but we don't.

Here's just a few examples but there are several holidays each month if you include all Federal Holidays, all religions, cultures and observances....

September:

Sep 4 Labor Day
Sep 8 Birth of the Virgin Mary
Sept 11 Patriot's Day
Sept 15 Our Lady of Sorrows
Sept 21 St. Matthew, Apostle
Sep 23 Rosh Hashana (Jewish)
Sep 24 Ramadan begins (Islamic)
Sept 29 St. Michael Day

October:

Oct 2 Yom Kippur (Jewish)
Oct 4 St. Francis of Assissi
Oct 7 First day of Sukkot (Jewish)
Oct 7 Our Lady of the Rosary
Oct 9 Columbus Day
Oct 9 Leif Erikson Day
Oct 13 Last day of Sukkot (Jewish)
Oct 14 Shmini Atzeret/Simchat Torah (Jewish)
Oct 19 Lailat Ul Qadr (Islamic)
Oct 24 Eid-al-Fitr (Islamic)
Oct 31 Halloween


January:

Jan 1 New Year's Day
Jan 7 Orthodox Christmas (Orthodox)
Jan 8 Epiphany
Jan 9 Baptism of the Lord
Jan 10 Eid-al-Adha (Islamic)
Jan 14 Orthodox New Year (Orthodox)
Jan 16 Martin Luther King Day
Jan 31 Muharramn/New Year (Islamic)

May:

May 3 Yom HaAtzmaut (Jewish)
May 5 Cinco de Mayo
May 14 Mother's Day
May 16 Lag B'Omer (Jewish)
May 25 Ascension Day (Christian)
May 29 Memorial Day

not sure about the "main holiday" statement": first of all pretty sure that the Epiphany is Jan 6 - and, from what I have read, for the Italians that celebrate it and for whom Befana ( a female witch that probably pre-dates Santa - oh my!!!) visits instead of Santa..this is their main celebration and not the 25th.

just one example that I know of....

 

[beattyfamily]

not sure about the "main holiday" statement": first of all pretty sure that the Epiphany is Jan 6 - and, from what I have read, for the Italians that celebrate it and for whom Befana ( a female witch that probably pre-dates Santa - oh my!!!) visits instead of Santa..this is their main celebration and not the 25th.

just one example that I know of....

All I meant was in America, most Christian's main holiday in December is Christmas even if they do something small on St. Nick's day.

 

[beattyfamily]

Uh, okay. I haven't seen any polls on it. I say "Happy New Year" on New Year's Day, or if I won't see someone until January 1 and it's after Christmas.

Still, none of this explains why stores can't be nice to their non-Christian customers by saying "Happy Holidays".

I never said they couldn't and I certainly wasn't explaining why they shouldn't. I was replying only to the comments about Catholics and their celebrations in December...as a practicing Catholic myself.

Most people, my whole life, have said Happy New Year as a separate wish from the couple days before the day till about a week or so after. You were saying that Happy Holidays includes Happy New Years but most people actually wish each other a "Happy New Year" or they say "Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year" so IMHO, its not really included in "Happy Holidays" wish at least in my experience.

 

[Laura]

All I meant was in America, most Christian's main holiday in December is Christmas even if they do something small on St. Nick's day.

Sure, but it's not the only holiday celebrated by American Christians this time of year. And Three Kings Day is pretty big here, too. Especially in Puerto Rico and among Mexican Americans.

I never said they couldn't and I certainly wasn't explaining why they shouldn't. I was replying only to the comments about Catholics and their celebrations in December...as a practicing Catholic myself.

Most people, my whole life, have said Happy New Year as a separate wish from the couple days before the day till about a week or so after. You were saying that Happy Holidays includes Happy New Years but most people actually wish each other a "Happy New Year" or they say "Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year" so IMHO, its not really included in "Happy Holidays" wish at least in my experience.

But that's just you; to many Christians (including the Catholics I know) "Happy Holidays" does include New Year's. Everyone has their own interpretation of the phrase, I suppose.

 

[beattyfamily]

Sure, but it's not the only holiday celebrated by American Christians this time of year. And Three Kings Day is pretty big here, too. Especially in Puerto Rico and among Mexican Americans.

Yes, I know. I mentioned both St. Nick and Epiphany in my previous post...regardless, in America for most Catholics, Christmas is the main holiday in December and most who celebrate those other two, also celebrate Christmas.

 

[Laura]

Yes, I know. I mentioned both St. Nick and Epiphany in my previous post...regardless, in America for most Catholics, Christmas is the main holiday in December and most who celebrate those other two, also celebrate Christmas.

So "Happy Holidays" can't include Three Kings Day to some Christians just because most may not celebrate it? As I said, it can have many connotations, as it does not specify any particular holidays. To me saying it to another pagan it can mean "Merry Solstice and a Happy New Year." That's what makes it such a nice phrase for stores to use. They want everyone to shop there, Christian, pagan, Jew, etc. It's really that simple.

 

[beattyfamily]

Sure, but it's not the only holiday celebrated by American Christians this time of year. And Three Kings Day is pretty big here, too. Especially in Puerto Rico and among Mexican Americans.


But that's just you; to many Christians (including the Catholics I know) "Happy Holidays" does include New Year's. Everyone has their own interpretation of the phrase, I suppose.

I guess but its strange that right now in stores; they either say have a nice day or Happy Holidays but as soon as Christmas is over, they'll start saying Happy New Year without hesitation but I thought it was included in Happy Holidays. Once Christmas is over, no one will say Happy Holidays anymore. Not for New Year's and not for the Epiphany on Jan 6. Again that's my experience.

 

[beattyfamily]

So "Happy Holidays" can't include Three Kings Day to some Christians just because most may not celebrate it? As I said, it can have many connotations, as it does not specify any particular holidays. To me saying it to another pagan it can mean "Merry Solstice and a Happy New Year." That's what makes it such a nice phrase for stores to use. They want everyone to shop there, Christian, pagan, Jew, etc. It's really that simple.

No, again, I was only replying to the fact that you wanted Catholics to chime in and say how we have so many holidays in December...when in reality its Christmas with a very few still celebrating, in a small way, St. Nick's and then in January Epiphany.

I still think that since there are so many holidays every single month, we should say Happy Holidays all year round...that way we don't offend any one ever.

 

[cardaway]

Yes, but the only thing is most people do NOT include New Years in "Happy Holidays". Most people actually do say "Happy New Year".

What todal bunk. I am quite sure that many, if not most of the people who will be saying "Happy Holidays" as people walk out the door on Friday for their time off until Jan 2nd will be using that phrase because they are wishing people a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

 

[Laura]

No, again, I was only replying to the fact that you wanted Catholics to chime in and say how we have so many holidays in December...when in reality its Christmas with a very few still celebrating, in a small way, St. Nick's and then in January Epiphany.

But I celebrated more than one holiday in December when I was Catholic, and other Catholics do celebrate other things than Christmas. I guess it depends on one's family traditions. And Epiphany isn't celebrated in a small way, just by a minority in this country. In other countries it's much bigger, percentage-wise. The celebration itself is actually a pretty big deal.

 

[beattyfamily]

What todal bunk. I am quite sure that many, if not most of the people who will be saying "Happy Holidays" as people walk out the door on Friday for their time off until Jan 2nd will be using that phrase because they are wishing people a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

I knew you couldn't resist chiming in with your words of wisdom. How nice.

 

[beattyfamily]

But I celebrated more than one holiday in December when I was Catholic, and other Catholics do celebrate other things than Christmas. I guess it depends on one's family traditions. And Epiphany isn't celebrated in a small way, just by a minority in this country. In other countries it's much bigger, percentage-wise. The celebration itself is actually a pretty big deal.

Guess we'll have to disagree on that.

 

[pansmermaidzlagoon]

What todal bunk. I am quite sure that many, if not most of the people who will be saying "Happy Holidays" as people walk out the door on Friday for their time off until Jan 2nd will be using that phrase because they are wishing people a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.

agree! I think most people have used it this way

I now I have stated this before... - I have always used "Happy Holidays" this way before I heard about this war on Xmas crap...and the supposed PC stuff....I have always signed my cards and said "Happy Holidays" - simply to mean all holidays at this time and even more so "happy New Year too".

...and the fact that people drop Happy Holidays for Happy New Year - that is sad for all the people who celebrate the Epiphany, etc.....

 

[cardaway]

I now I have stated this before... - I have always used "Happy Holidays" this way before I heard about this war on Xmas crap...and the supposed PC stuff....I have always signed my cards and said "Happy Holidays" - simply to mean all holidays at this time and even more so "happy New Year too".

Same here.

 

[Laura]

Guess we'll have to disagree on that.

What's to disagree about? I stated facts. So you don't celebrate Three Kings Day or St. Nicholas' day. So what? Other Christians do, including Catholics--not all Catholics share your heritage and religious traditions. And Christians do wish other Christians "Happy Holidays". I know I did. Never used "Season's Greetings" much, though.

 

[poohandwendy]

LOL, I can't believe this thread still has legs.

Happy Holidays to all!

 

[Mrs.Toad]

No one (except left wing secularists who like to misquote) is proposing that businesses be mandated to say anything.

Please point out where any "left wing secularist", or anyone else, has proposed that businesses be mandated to say anything. The only people trying to do anything of the sort are the AFA, via their encouragement of boycotts, mass e-mailing and phone calls to retailers of whose holiday wishes they disapprove.

What I and some others are objecting to is businesses mandating that their employees not be allowed to state the name of a holiday celebrated by the overwhelming majority

Do you also object to businesses that require their employees to maintain a particular appearance? Or those that require them to answer the phone "It's a great day at XYZ Company, this is Susie, how may I help you?" Employees are and have always been subject to these types of rules when representing their employers. If a company wants to convey the message "happy holidays", "Merry Christmas" or "would you like fries with that?", they have every right to require their employees say it, and if the employees don't like it, they can go find another job.

Anyway, the usage of the generic "Happy Holidays" seems to be a very recent trend, not visible in any critical mass form until the 1920s. It's employment as a mandated substitute for "Merry Christmas" is much more recent, really in the last 5 years or so, driven by the secular arm of the left.

You are really out of touch if you honestly believe it's that recent. In 1980-1982, I worked for a department store in which we were required to write "Thank you" at the bottom of each sales slip. In December, we were told to change that to "Happy Holidays". I'm sure they would have been fine with "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Hanukkah" if we knew for sure that's what the customer was celebrating, but the subject never came up, because Happy Holidays was thought of as a nice greeting, and no one was taking it the wrong way yet.

I also remember my mom sending out "Happy Holidays" and "Season's Greetings" cards, and she died in 1988.