Gap, Old Navy censor 'Christmas,'

[Laura]

Did you know? There's more than one Christian holiday/feast day this time of year. St. Nicholas' feast day (12/6) and Epiphany (1/6) are celebrated by some Christians as well as Christmas. Plus there's New Year's, which would be celebrated by most Christians. Heck, some even extend the Christmas season until Candlemas (2/2). So saying "Happy Holidays" can include all these festivities. Even if you discount the others I mentioned, the two big holidays for most people in the USA at this time of year are Christmas and New Year's. So both are covered with the phrase. Big deal. It's a holiday season, Christian or not.

I wanted to quote myself to remind beachblanket of the multiple celebrations that CHRISTIANS celebrate as well as the non-Christian holidays.

 

[Laura]

Yes, how dare someone post facts - ones that illustrate the miniscule levels of true holiday cultural "diversity," the sole, shaky justificiation of the "Happy Holiday" argument. Yes, these discussions must apparently stay solely in the realm of emotion and myth, no facts allowed. Introduce them and you'll be called names and demonized.

But enough rancor. I'll let Linus speak now. Here are his EXACT words from the climax of "A Charlie Brown CHRISTMAS":

"And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth , into Judea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem: To be taxed with Mary his espoused wife, being great with child. And so it was, that, while they were there, the days were accomplished that she should be delivered.

Aand she brought forth her firstborn son, and wrapped him in swaddling clothes, and laid him in a manger, because there was no room for them in the inn.

And there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night,and lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them and the glory of the Lord shone round about them and they were sore afraid.

And the angel said unto them Fear not for behold I bring you good tidings of great joy which shall be to all people.

For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour which is Christ the Lord."

Um, actually, those are not Linus' own words, that's Luke 2:4-11, the King James Version.

And it's been made crystal clear that the holidays of religious minorities in this country don't matter to you.

 

[Mrs.Toad]

I'm more than willing to bet almost all the "happy holiday" apologists here didn't have a clue about the true nature and history of Chanukah, instead assuming it was just some sort of "Jewish" form of Christmas.

I knew that. So what? Just goes to show the extent to which public celebrations of Christmas have affected Jews in this country.

And hopefully also enjoy my CHRISTMAS favorites, which include:

- The annual WDW Christmas Day "CHRISTMAS Parade" (gee, why doesn't Disney change it to "HOLIDAY" parade to be "more inclusive")

- The annual broadcast of "How The Grinch Stole CHRISTMAS" (no, not the overblown Carey vehicle, but rather the original 1966 cartoon version!)

- The annual broadcast of "A Charlie Brown CHRISTMAS" (actually features Linus reading the Gospel according to Luke Thank heaven Charles Schulz lived in a pre PC creative era!!!)

- The annual broadcast of "A CHRISTMAS Story" (YES - TNN is running its annual marathon broadcast of this all day on Christmas Eve again this year )

- The 1938 version of "A CHRISTMAS Carol" (the story has been made into scores of films; some people like the glossy Albert Finney 1970s version, but this haunting and deep treatment comes closest to Dicken's true intent)

- The annual production (since 1933) of the Radio City "CHRISTMAS Spectacular" - arguably the most impressive stage production in America, featuring the most massive, incredible living nativity scene you will ever see as the climax).

- The inevitable broadcast of "National Lampoon's CHRISTMAS Vacation" (clearly Chevy Chase's high water mark of the series)

Thanks, I will enjoy all of those. Funny, no Hanukkah, Kwanzaa or generic "Holiday" movies being shown on TV, that I'm aware of, anyway.

Some of the other things I enjoy during the holiday season:

Visiting Santa's village at the mall and watching my kids talk to Santa. Funny, there's still no Holiday Armadillo there.

Watching The Polar Express and A Muppets Christmas Carol, which are being shown free to the publlic in my area over the next couple of nights. Hmm, funny, they're not showing any Hanukkah or Kwanzaa movies...

Shopping at "The Christmas Store", full of all things Christmas without a Hanukkah or Kwanzaa item in sight.

Baking cookies and packing them in cute Christmas tins for my neighbors... but dang, it was nearly impossible to find a plain winter design for my non-Christian neighbors. (I finally did find one with just a snowman, but it took some digging. )

Admiring the beautifully decorated Christmas trees and "Santa's house" on public display in my area. Funny, that one menorah that stood there dwarfed by the gigantic trees a few years ago isn't there this year.

Taking my dd to see this year's crop of mostly-crappy Christmas movies: Deck The Halls, Unaccompanied Minors, and The Santa Clause 3, none of which refer to any holiday other than Christmas, unless you count the mention that one character is Jewish, or I missed a miniscule scene.

As you've indicated, Christmas is everywhere you look. Hanukkah and Kwanza are occasionally tossed in as afterthoughts. So some stores use the word Holiday and schools call it Winter Break. So what? Christmas is safe. At most, these small changes make only a tiny dent in the side of the biggest holiday in the U.S. Barely noticable, unless you choose to dwell on it.

 

[cardaway]

Yes, how dare someone post facts - ones that illustrate the miniscule levels of true holiday cultural "diversity," the sole, shaky justificiation of the "Happy Holiday" argument. Yes, these discussions must apparently stay solely in the realm of emotion and myth, no facts allowed. Introduce them and you'll be called names and demonized.]

Yeah, the minority poulation numbers are facts too, but I can't see a lot of people accepting those facts as reasoning for treating people differently.

 

[beachblanket]

Um, actually, those are not Linus' own words, that's Luke 2:4-11, the King James Version.

If one wants to be literal, you are correct. So I apologize, those are the words he speaks.

And it's been made crystal clear that the holidays of religious minorities in this country don't matter to you.

No, that's just the shallow, skewed interpretation of those who (sadly) live in a world where facts, reason and context don't matter.

 

[cardaway]

No, that's just the shallow, skewed interpretation of those who (sadly) live in a world where facts, reason and context don't matter.

If we were to use your resoning, it's a fact that in many areas of this country (context) there are not enough African Americans living there for them to expect equal rights.

Very skewed, but I would not call it shallow. It's much, much worse.

 

[Laura]

As you've indicated, Christmas is everywhere you look. Hanukkah and Kwanza are occasionally tossed in as afterthoughts. So some stores use the word Holiday and schools call it Winter Break. So what? Christmas is safe. At most, these small changes make only a tiny dent in the side of the biggest holiday in the U.S. Barely noticable, unless you choose to dwell on it.

That's it, in a nutshell. I guess some choose to dwell on it.

I guess I'm missing the drama of referring to the season as having multiple holidays. There are multiple holidays this time of year, Christian or not. Beachblanket, for some reason, has missed that fact.

 

[amy4bruce]

No, that's just the shallow, skewed interpretation of those who (sadly) live in a world where facts, reason and context don't matter.

Actually, everything you've posted puts me in mind of Ruch Limbaugh's comment, "You're a minority. Who cares what you think?" My interpretation of what you've said (and I know you think I'm "shallow and skewed" and I really don't care) is that, since the majority of people celebrate Christmas, everybody else should just shut up.

It may not be what you mean, but it's definitely the impression I'm getting.

As a Unitarian Universalist (born Jewish), I acknowledge Christmas, Chanukah, Kwanzaa, Advent, Solstice, Diwali and Santa Lucia. I find nothing wrong with this.

 

[mickeyfan2]

I'm more than willing to bet almost all the "happy holiday" apologists here didn't have a clue about the true nature and history of Chanukah, instead assuming it was just some sort of "Jewish" form of Christmas.

I know about the history of Chanukah and say Happy Holidays. As a Catholic the Christmas season is Advent, the Immaculate Conception, Christmas, Epiphany and New Year's Day. All are either a Holy day or a Holy season, so Happy Holidays (Holy Days) is a correct statement for me. Get over yourself and learn a little about the history of the word and your faith, not just since the Protestant Reformation, but since the time of Jesus.

 

[Laura]

I know about the history of Chanukah and say Happy Holidays. As a Catholic the Christmas season is Advent, the Immaculate Conception, Christmas, Epiphany and New Year's Day. All are either a Holy day or a Holy season, so Happy Holidays (Holy Days) is a correct statement for me. Get over yourself and learn a little about the history of the word and your faith, not just since the Protestant Reformation, but since the time of Jesus.

Very well put; I was raised Catholic, and while I'm not Christian any more, I'm aware that there are many things that many Christians celebrate this time of year. Maybe if more posters mention this, beachblanket won't ignore it. After all, Catholics make up the majority of Christians in the USA.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Originally Posted by beachblanket
Yes, how dare someone post facts - ones that illustrate the miniscule levels of true holiday cultural "diversity," the sole, shaky justificiation of the "Happy Holiday" argument. Yes, these discussions must apparently stay solely in the realm of emotion and myth, no facts allowed. Introduce them and you'll be called names and demonized.]

Blacks are only 10% of the population. so we never should have gone with that let's free the slaves thing.
Nice Logic there. Oh by the way. The ones being demonized are the ones saying Happy Holidays.


Anyone can regurgitate facts. Where intellect comes in is analysis. And heretofore, you haven't shown any justification why we should require a private business to say Merry Christmas instead of Happy Holidays. Nore have you shown any justification to treat those in the minority differently.
Gap is a private business. If they want to say go pee up a rope to all their customers, they have the right to do that. They say Happy Holidays so as to have a generic Holiday well wish that they can apply to everyone. I always take it to mean Merry Christmas and Happy New Year myself. I don't think anything more of it. Oh and lose the persecution complex. If you don't like being laughed at and made fun of, stop making yourself such an easy mark.

Martyrdom in other countries. Dying because you're a Christian.
Martyrdom in the United States among the wingnuts. Having "Happy Holidays" said to you.

What an absolute joke. Happy Holidays has been around as a phrase since long before you were born. and now we're supposed to believe it's part of a big conspiracy.

Originally Posted by beachblanket
I'm more than willing to bet almost all the "happy holiday" apologists here didn't have a clue about the true nature and history of Chanukah, instead assuming it was just some sort of "Jewish" form of Christmas.

So what? You don't have a clue about the true nature and history of Christmas, nor of the phrase Happy Holidays, which has been around since before anyone on this board was born. So what's the difference?

Um, actually, those are not Linus' own words, that's Luke 2:4-11, the King James Version.

ZING!!!!! Laura 1. The exposed Zip.

.

 

[mickeyfan2]

Very well put; I was raised Catholic, and while I'm not Christian any more, I'm aware that there are many things that many Christians celebrate this time of year. Maybe if more posters mention this, beachblanket won't ignore it. After all, Catholics make up the majority of Christians in the USA.

Catholics are the largest single Church but there are more total Protestants than Catholics in the US. That is why Catholic bashing is so popular in the US and on the DIS.

 

[Laura]

Catholics are the largest single Church but there are more total Protestants than Catholics in the US. That is why Catholic bashing is so popular in the US and on the DIS.

True, they are the largest denomination. I guess I didn't make that clear.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Originally Posted by beachblanket
No, that's just the shallow, skewed interpretation of those who (sadly) live in a world where facts, reason and context don't matter.

You talking about reason and context? That's hilarious.
Reason would dictate that pursuing righting an actual injustice would be the proper context for your zeal rather than a complete non-issue such as this.
Fact? You have yet to show me one fact that leads to the conclusion that Gap shouldn't be allowed to say happy Holidays or that it's some sort of conspiracy against Christmas. Not one.

Martyrdom in other countries=Christians dying for their beliefs.
Martyrdom among the wingnuts=Christians having to endure the phrase "Happy Holidays." which has been around since before they were born. Such a burden.

 

[beattyfamily]

Very well put; I was raised Catholic, and while I'm not Christian any more, I'm aware that there are many things that many Christians celebrate this time of year. Maybe if more posters mention this, beachblanket won't ignore it. After all, Catholics make up the majority of Christians in the USA.

I'm a practicing Catholic and my family celebrates Christmas in December and Advent IS part of Christmas. Immacualte Conception is a 'Holy Day of Obligation' but we don't 'celebrate' it like we do Christmas just like we don't celebrate all Holy Days of Obligations and feasts and Saint's day's like we do Christmas (and Easter).

I know of a few European communities that celebrate, in a small way, St. Nicholas' Day and/or The Epiphany in January but Christmas is still their main holiday in December.

Really, you can find a feast or a Saint's day almost every single day of the year on the Catholic calendar. Doesn't mean we 'celebrate' each of them.

If you look at a calendar with all holidays and observances, you'd see that we should just say Happy Holidays all year round, but we don't.

Here's just a few examples but there are several holidays each month if you include all Federal Holidays, all religions, cultures and observances....

September:

Sep 4 Labor Day
Sep 8 Birth of the Virgin Mary
Sept 11 Patriot's Day
Sept 15 Our Lady of Sorrows
Sept 21 St. Matthew, Apostle
Sep 23 Rosh Hashana (Jewish)
Sep 24 Ramadan begins (Islamic)
Sept 29 St. Michael Day

October:

Oct 2 Yom Kippur (Jewish)
Oct 4 St. Francis of Assissi
Oct 7 First day of Sukkot (Jewish)
Oct 7 Our Lady of the Rosary
Oct 9 Columbus Day
Oct 9 Leif Erikson Day
Oct 13 Last day of Sukkot (Jewish)
Oct 14 Shmini Atzeret/Simchat Torah (Jewish)
Oct 19 Lailat Ul Qadr (Islamic)
Oct 24 Eid-al-Fitr (Islamic)
Oct 31 Halloween


January:

Jan 1 New Year's Day
Jan 7 Orthodox Christmas (Orthodox)
Jan 8 Epiphany
Jan 9 Baptism of the Lord
Jan 10 Eid-al-Adha (Islamic)
Jan 14 Orthodox New Year (Orthodox)
Jan 16 Martin Luther King Day
Jan 31 Muharramn/New Year (Islamic)

May:

May 3 Yom HaAtzmaut (Jewish)
May 5 Cinco de Mayo
May 14 Mother's Day
May 16 Lag B'Omer (Jewish)
May 25 Ascension Day (Christian)
May 29 Memorial Day

 

[beachblanket]

You don't have a clue about the true nature and history of Christmas, nor of the phrase Happy Holidays, which has been around since before anyone on this board was born.

Yes, certainly. That's why I was elected senior warden of my church.

Origin of the word Christmas: an abbreviation/combination of the Old English "Cristes Maesse," which literally translates as "the Mass of Christ." It's first usage appeard in 1038, changing to Cristes-messe in 1131. The name Christmas first appeared in a Welsh book of song and verse that is dated sometime around 1340.

In Dutch it is Kerst-misse.

In Latin it's Dies Natalis, whence comes the French Noël, and Italian Il Natale; in German it's Weihnachtsfest.

Origins of the term "Happy Holidays." A wee bit tricker than nailing down Christmas. Christmas becoming a flashpoint for bitter legal and social battles isn't new, in fact, During the 1500s and 1600s, the celebration of Christmas was banned for a time in Scotland, England, and Massachusetts (a place which has a long history for kicking off failed law, but that's a discussion for another thread). The earlier censorship was usually the results of Puritans and Protestants believing that the holiday was so secularized that it had become a blasphemy against God.

Anyway, the usage of the generic "Happy Holidays" seems to be a very recent trend, not visible in any critical mass form until the 1920s. It's employment as a mandated substitute for "Merry Christmas" is much more recent, really in the last 5 years or so, driven by the secular arm of the left.

 

[chobie]

Yes, certainly. That's why I was elected senior warden of my church.

Origin of the word Christmas: an abbreviation/combination of the Old English "Cristes Maesse," which literally translates as "the Mass of Christ." It's first usage appeard in 1038, changing to Cristes-messe in 1131. The name Christmas first appeared in a Welsh book of song and verse that is dated sometime around 1340.

In Dutch it is Kerst-misse.

In Latin it's Dies Natalis, whence comes the French Noël, and Italian Il Natale; in German it's Weihnachtsfest.

Origins of the term "Happy Holidays." A wee bit tricker than nailing down Christmas. Christmas becoming a flashpoint for bitter legal and social battles isn't new, in fact, During the 1500s and 1600s, the celebration of Christmas was banned for a time in Scotland, England, and Massachusetts (a place which has a long history for kicking off failed law, but that's a discussion for another thread). The earlier censorship was usually the results of Puritans and Protestants believing that the holiday was so secularized that it had become a blasphemy against God.

Anyway, the usage of the generic "Happy Holidays" seems to be a very recent trend, not visible in any critical mass form until the 1920s. It's employment as a mandated substitute for "Merry Christmas" is much more recent, really in the last 5 years or so, driven by the secular arm of the left.

Wow, you are a church leader? Scary thought.

 

[cardaway]

Anyway, the usage of the generic "Happy Holidays" seems to be a very recent trend, not visible in any critical mass form until the 1920s. It's employment as a mandated substitute for "Merry Christmas" is much more recent, really in the last 5 years or so, driven by the secular arm of the left.

Once again your "reasoning" is flawed. Given the stats you posted this is obviously a internal issue. There simply are not enough of us miniroities (that obviously you consider second class citizens) to make your vast majority to do anything they don't want to do.

It's Christians that are responsbile for secularizing Christmas with the majority of them agreeing that Happy Holidays is not the end of the world as you see it.

 

[Laura]

I'm a practicing Catholic and my family celebrates Christmas in December and Advent IS part of Christmas. Immacualte Conception is a 'Holy Day of Obligation' but we don't 'celebrate' it like we do Christmas just like we don't celebrate all Holy Days of Obligations and feasts and Saint's day's like we do Christmas (and Easter).

I know of a few European communities that celebrate, in a small way, St. Nicholas' Day and/or The Epiphany in January but Christmas is still their main holiday in December.

Well, I'm not estranged from the Catholics in my family, so I'm well aware that Christmas is more emphasized. Epiphany/Three Kings Day is really huge in some Hispanic communities, though. And we did celebrate St. Nicholas' feast day when I was a kid. Not as much as Christmas, of course. As I (and not only I) stated earlier, though, "Happy Holidays" from the lips of a Christian often means "Merry Christmas" as well as "Happy New Year".

Anyway, the usage of the generic "Happy Holidays" seems to be a very recent trend, not visible in any critical mass form until the 1920s. It's employment as a mandated substitute for "Merry Christmas" is much more recent, really in the last 5 years or so, driven by the secular arm of the left.

Oh right, because everyone who's liberal is not a Christian.

 

[beattyfamily]

As I (and not only I) stated earlier, though, "Happy Holidays" from the lips of a Christian often means "Merry Christmas" as well as "Happy New Year".

Yes, but the only thing is most people do NOT include New Years in "Happy Holidays". Most people actually do say "Happy New Year".