Gap, Old Navy censor 'Christmas,'

Crankyshank said:
Disney's CHRISTMAS parade is secular.

Yes, certainly, that's why the parade is NAMED after a CHRISTIAN holiday, and features a character named after a CHRISTIAN SAINT, and is specifically held on the date of a major CHRISTIAN holiday.

Yep, the Disney Christmas parade has nothing to do with Christmas.
 
Avoidance/censorship of Christmas

In 1999, VDARE.com editor Peter Brimelow is credited for first coining the term "War on Christmas", or "War Against Christmas", and the analysis of this issue became a prominent piece of conservative cultural criticism in the United States.

The phrases "Season's Greetings," or "Happy Holidays" as opposed to "Merry Christmas," have become a particular concern to many people.[9] The phrases are used on many postcards (as, for example, those sent out by the American Library Association), and by door clerks at Wal-Mart and other major stores. Don Feder, president of Jews Against Anti-Christian Defamation stresses that it should be okay to say "Merry Christmas", and complained about "politically correct purging of Christmas from our culture." [2] Rabbi Daniel Lapin believes that "saying Merry Christmas is NOT Offensive" and complains that "We see obsequious regard for faiths like Judaism and even Islam, while Christianity is treated with contempt". [3] Further, Lapin says that "Nationwide, Christmas Nativity scenes are banned from city halls and shopping malls but Chanukah menorahs are permitted. (They are only cultural symbols, not religious, you see.)" and concludes that "Religious Freedom is for Everyone - Not Just Minorities" [4].

The idea of a war on Christmas in America gained prominence following extensive coverage on the Fox News Channel. The channel's commentators Bill O'Reilly and Sean Hannity first spoke of a "war on Christmas" in the months leading up to the 2004 holiday season, and picked up the topic again in late 2005. In particular, they cited certain school decisions and municipal codes that were supposed to single out Christmas observances for special restriction.

In several cases, the news items mentioned on Fox were denied by the persons involved. For example, O'Reilly said that the township of Saginaw, Michigan "opposes red and green clothing on anyone." The town supervisor responded that "O'Reilly's comments are flat-out not true...the township hall has red and green Christmas lights adorning the building at night."[10] Nevertheless, these reports bolstered a widespread popular sentiment that Christmas was being attacked by the political left. This was, and is, widely discussed on the Internet, especially in the blogosphere. A Fox News/Opinion Dynamics poll for November 29–30, 2005 found that 42% of respondents believe that "there is a War on Christmas in the U.S. today," with 48% in disagreement. Media Matters for America, a watchdog group critical of conservative media, reported that from Monday, November 28, to Friday, December 2, Fox News aired 58 different reports, interviews, and debates about the War on Christmas. [11] Many print and television media outlets are skeptical, calling it a conspiracy theory or a deliberate attempt to further a conservative Christian agenda. [12] [13]


Regarding the phrase "Season's Greetings," as opposed to "Merry Christmas," O'Reilly argued: "Every company in America should be on their knees thanking Jesus for being born. Without Christmas, most American businesses would be far less profitable," O'Reilly said on a Fox News program. "More than enough reason for business to be screaming 'Merry Christmas'." Critics, however, point out that attempting to include non-Christians in Christmas by generalizing the holiday is a wholly capitalistic method of increasing profits — the more people affected by marketing, the more people will come out and purchase. In 2006 however, Wal-Mart resumed the use of "Merry Christmas" in their advertisements after a sharp decline in their 2005 holiday sales. Critics say that this was a result of some 96% of Americans who celebrate Christmas objecting. [14]

While the controversy over the phrase "Season's Greetings" strongly echoes Robnett's concern about the phrase "Xmas," the "War on Christmas" idea, however, differs from earlier discussions of the secularization of Christmas in two important regards. First, it treats many of the (really or supposedly) paganizing elements of Christmas observance as if they were essentially Christian symbols, so that, for example, Saginaw's purported ban of red and green clothing is an anti-Christian act. This is in contrast to many earlier critics of Christmas, such as the Puritans or the Jehovah's Witnesses: by them, the removal of Christmas trees, yule logs, and so forth would be viewed as pro-Christian. Some contemporary conservatives advance this line of thought as well, arguing that the "Christmas" that's allegedly under attack is a secularized, commercialized corruption of the Nativity to begin with.

Second, earlier critics have usually seen Christian observance as coming under attack from generalized secular and capitalist trends. Modern critics tend to see Christmas as being specifically attacked by a conspiracy of secular forces, and are less concerned about the commercialization of Christmas per se. For example, John Gibson, wrote a book entitled The War on Christmas: How the Liberal Plot to Ban the Sacred Christian Holiday Is Worse Than You Thought (ISBN 1-59523-016-5), which was published in October of 2005. Gibson and others claim the abolition of Christmas (War on Christmas) is part of a broader "culture war" waged by progressives. O'Reilly claimed that "it's all part of the secular progressive agenda ... to get Christianity and spirituality and Judaism out of the public square." He also went on to say that this larger agenda includes "legalization of narcotics, euthanasia, abortion at will, gay marriage." [15] In this alleged recent movement, Gibson has charged that a wide array of groups, including "liberals," "secular progressives," the ACLU, the Anti-Defamation League, and Americans United for Separation of Church and State are the forces behind the attack, while O'Reilly has focused more narrowly on the ACLU and billionaire financier George Soros. [16] [17]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_on_Christmas
 
DisneyGerry said:
An overwhelming majority of Americans supports allowing nativity scenes on public property. However, a smaller number — but still a clear majority — thinks if Christian holiday symbols are placed on public property that other religious symbols, such as a Jewish menorah (search), must also be displayed.

The latest FOX News poll finds that fully 87 percent of Americans say nativity scenes should be allowed on public property and only nine percent disagree. The poll, conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corporation, also finds 61 percent believe that if Christmas symbols are displayed that symbols from other religions should also be included. Less than a third of Americans (28 percent) approve of displaying Christian symbols on public property without recognizing other religions.

Almost all Americans celebrate Christmas (96 percent), while five percent say they celebrate Hanukkah and two percent the December holiday of Kwanzaa (search) (multiple responses were accepted).

Resisting the temptation to overindulge in holiday cookies and candy can be a challenge. Four in 10 Americans (41 percent) say they will not even try to resist and plan to "eat and drink whatever" they want during the holidays, while half say they plan to try to eat healthy, "but enjoy some holiday treats." Only seven percent plan to "completely stick to the diet."

(Story continues below)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,105272,00.html

Let's try the following;

According to a Pew research 2002 study, 82% of the population considered themselves Christian.

http://www.adherents.com/rel_USA.html

Total Christian population in 2001; 79.8% (Which was down 8.5% from the percentage in 1990) according to the American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS)

The American Religious Identification Survey (ARIS) 2001 was based on a random digit-dialed telephone survey of 50,281 American residential households in the continental U.S.A (48 states). Respondents were asked to describe themselves in terms of religion with an open-ended question. Interviewers did not prompt or offer a suggested list of potential answers. The primary question of the interview was: What is your religion, if any? The religion of the spouse/partner was also asked. If the initial answer was 'Protestant' or 'Christian' further questions were asked to probe which particular denomination.

Key findings:[7] (Not adjusted for increase in refusals to reply)

the proportion of the population that can be classified as Christian has declined from 86% in 1990 to 77% in 2001; although the number of adults who classify themselves in non-Christian religious groups has increased from about 5.8 million to about 7.7 million, the proportion of non-Christians has increased only by a very small amount - from 3.3% to about 3.7%;
the greatest increase in absolute as well as in percentage terms has been among those adults who do not subscribe to any religious identification; their number has more than doubled from 14.3 million in 1990 to 29.4 million in 2001; their proportion has grown from just 8% of the total in 1990 to over 14% in 2001; there has also been a substantial increase in the number of adults who refused to reply to the question about their religious preference, from about four million or 2% in 1990 to more than eleven million or over 5% in 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_the_United_States
 
LuvDuke said:
I'm celebrating the gift-giving/overeating/overdecorating Christmas. I am not celebrating the "Happy Birthday, Jesus" variety.

O.K., I get it, the CHRISTMAS word is O.K. as long as we limit it to the fun and games elements and don't introduce any specifc references to the actual event the holiday is celebrating. I'm cool with that, everyone isn't religous.

But then what on earth is about using the mere word that the Gap is so #*^@ afraid of? ;)
 

Why in the hell are you using capitals? It's not helping getting your point across. I only did it to show you how trite it was in the first place. The Christian holiday once again is a rip off of a very ancient pagan one.

Disney could change the Christmas parade to call it the Holiday parade. I wouldn't give a reindeer's toe about it. Since when is Disney the be all and end all on how to address and market the month of December anyhow? They decided to call it the christmas party - fabulous. Bully for them.

Only Christians seem to be the one pissing and moaning about being slighted. Everyone else seems to be aware that the "iconography" really isn't Christian. I ask you again - why would not Christians be offended by Christmas trees? They're not of Christian origin.
 
beachblanket said:
Percentages of American adults identifying themselves with a specific religion:

Christian - 76.5%
Jewish - 1.3%
Muslim - 0.5%

Any other faith you can name is less than 0.5%

Source:

Religious Identification in the U.S.

Bottom line Mugg: the ratio of people celebrating Christmas vs. other year end religious holidays is in the range of 70 to 1. Retailers who are afraid to say "Christmas" aren't worried about "insulting" the microsopic percentage of those celebrating a different faith. Rather, they are have been cowered into burying the "C" word by a teeny-weeny niche of the PC left that hates organized religion in general and Christianity in particular.

Generalize much in your hatred? :lmao: You're just a spit-shine example of the true meaning of Christmas....

By the way, the math I learned taught me that when you compare a ratio of 76% to somewhere around 2% (although I just cited numbers up above in another study that don't even come close to what you state), it works out to a ratio much closer to half of what you stated up above.
 
beachblanket said:
O.K., I get it, the CHRISTMAS word is O.K. as long as we limit it to the fun and games elements and don't introduce any specifc references to the actual event the holiday is celebrating. I'm cool with that, everyone isn't religous.

But then what on earth is about using the mere word that the Gap is so #*^@ afraid of? ;)

They are not afraid of the word Christmas. They know that people other than christians have celebrations this time of year and those celebrations by and large include the exchange of presents. By using "Holiday" they are incorporating those non-Christian gift exchanges and therefore appealing to a broader market while still including those celebrating Christmas for secular and religious reasons.

More holidays included = more people buying gifts = $$$$$$$$$$ because they just extended their busy season
 
DisneyGerry said:
Other than if the intention is to remove Christ out of Christmas. We have holidays we celebrate throughout the year, the main holiday of the year is Christmas, to celebrate Jesus' birth. These retailers are trying to capitalize off Christmas--are they not? Are they getting rich off any other holiday anytime of the year? Dont think so. Christmas is there bread and butter--yet many dont want to upset a very small percentage by keeping Christ in Christmas.

:thumbsup2
 
I'm not Christian, but I celebrate Christmas with the Christians in my family (none of whom seem to care that people say "Happy Holidays"). I have a tree because it represents Yule and the Solstice celebrations. :)

I just don't get why people care if it says Christmas in the store or not? Nobody's trying to get rid of Christmas. Stores just want to make as much money they can off of every potential shopper by trying to be as inclusive as possible for the 25% of Americans who don't identify themselves as Christians.

Big deal. Get over it. Your religion's still in the majority. There are other things to worry about. I don't care if there's Christmas plastered everywhere, why should Christians care that it says "Happy Holidays"? Besides, there is more than one Christian holiday celebrated this time of year. St. Nicholas's feast day and Epiphany come to mind.
 
basas said:
Except for the fact that some 90% of the shoppers are celebrating Christmas...

Similarily, about the same ammount would be shopping for Christmas gifts. I would think the store might be a little upset if everyone who celebrated Christmas decided to shop somewhere else.

You can dance around the fact, or try to be as PC as you want, but the numbers don't change. "Other religions" make up about 5% of the population. Sure you can have a few things that celebrate their religions too (nothing wrong with that), but the fact of the matter is that you aren't escaping Christmas if you live in North America so you might as well live with it. I assume with your thought process we should print all our signs in 200 languages too? After all...there are many other languages then just English (or even Spanish) being spoken in America and we wouldn't want to 'offend' them...
It does not matter to me what percentages are represented, it's up to businesses to decide their own Pr.

All Christians who have a problem with it can put their money where their mouth is and not patronize any business that has taken Christ out of their Christmas shopping.

And the rest of us can just enjoy our Christmas holiday.

I don't care what businesses do, I have a choice in where I shop.
 
Laura said:
I just don't get why people care if it says Christmas in the store or not? Nobody's trying to get rid of Christmas. Store just want to make as much money they can off of every potential shopper by trying to be as inclusive as possible for the 25% of Americans who don't identify themselves as Christians.

Hate to break it to you Laura, but the Fox news poll says that 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas. So screw the 4% ;)
 
beachblanket said:
Taking this logic a step further, I guess Disney should cancel the annual CHRISTMAS parade they broadcast on 12/25, and replace it with a completely non-denominational "HOLIDAY" parade held on...well, whenever.

My conservative southern city is having a Holiday Parade this year. It offended my ears only because I've never heard of such a thing. Kind of like "Honey, let's decorate our Holiday Tree."
 
Crankyshank said:
Hate to break it to you Laura, but the Fox news poll says that 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas. So screw the 4% ;)

After all Laura, that's the same source that kept insisting that there were WMDs in Iraq, so you better not doubt...you better not cry....you better not pout...I'm telling you why....they're wrong!
 
Crankyshank said:
Hate to break it to you Laura, but the Fox news poll says that 96% of Americans celebrate Christmas. So screw the 4% ;)

Yeah, but "celebrate Christmas" = "eating Snickerdoodles", so that poll really has nothing to do with anything religious.
 
orljustin said:
Yeah, but "celebrate Christmas" = "eating Snickerdoodles", so that poll really has nothing to do with anything religious.

Blasphemer!!!!!! :stir: ;)

It's all about Christmas. Don't listen to the papist and heathen propaganda :wizard:
 
Crankyshank said:
Blasphemer!!!!!! :stir: ;)

It's all about Christmas. Don't listen to the papist and heathen propaganda :wizard:

But which group gets to stone him first? The group that actually believes that Fox News is even remotely fair and balanced, or the group that has actually bought into the self-serving hype that there's really a war against Christmas and that it's not a staged event created and driven by groups with their own agendas.

I mean c'mon, Crankyshank, you gotta be more specific here!
 
The latest FOX News poll finds that fully 87 percent of Americans say nativity scenes should be allowed on public property and only nine percent disagree. The poll, conducted by Opinion Dynamics Corporation, also finds 61 percent believe that if Christmas symbols are displayed that symbols from other religions should also be included. Less than a third of Americans (28 percent) approve of displaying Christian symbols on public property without recognizing other religions.

Interesting that this poll didn't ask people - do you thik that ONLY the nativity scene should be allowed on public property.

I'm a christian and I'm all for the nativity scene being at the courthouse, along with a menorah and other religious symbols.

Percentages don't matter because I would be willing to bet 51% of Christians who celebrate Christmas don't care if they are told Happy Holidays!

~Amanda
 
DisneyGerry said:
Other than if the intention is to remove Christ out of Christmas. We have holidays we celebrate throughout the year, the main holiday of the year is Christmas, to celebrate Jesus' birth. These retailers are trying to capitalize off Christmas--are they not? Are they getting rich off any other holiday anytime of the year? Dont think so. Christmas is there bread and butter--yet many dont want to upset a very small percentage by keeping Christ in Christmas.


Christmas was always "capitalized". Do you really think that Jesus was born on Decmber 25th and it had anythingt o do with a tree? Of course not, Constantine recognized the buisness behind christianity and he used the tree and the date (which were symbollic to them) to convert pagans to christianity.
 
beachblanket said:
Taking this logic a step further, I guess Disney should cancel the annual CHRISTMAS parade they broadcast on 12/25, and replace it with a completely non-denominational "HOLIDAY" parade held on...well, whenever.
It's been the "Parade of Lights" in my (red) state for as long as I can remember. It's no big deal, really.
 


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