FYI point value according to those who rent......

[AnnK]

I was reading a post over on the budget board. This is a partial quote from the post.

"I agree with the last post. Even if I had the money to spend $720 a night on a room, I wouldn't! I've found ways to get deluxe and pay for value(renting points for example)"


So now our rooms are renting for the same as a VALUE RESORT? ( All-stars?) C'mon folks don't GIVE your points away to strangers! We do give points away to friends, I can even see selling to a fellow DVC at a cheaper rate, but when the posters on the other boards are buying our rooms for the same price as All-Stars something is wrong.

 

[PamOKW]

As long as members rent based on a per point cost and only rent Su-Th, then the rates will be low. Even at $10 per point studios will cost $80-$140 per day based on resort and season (not including Premier Season). Checking in Sunday and out Friday would run $400 at OKW in Adventure or Choice season. Checking in Friday and out Wednesday would run $640 ($660 in Choice). Renting 5 nights from Disney at OKW in Value Season would be $1,355.

Members are providing a way for people to do DVC cheap. They are also using the weekday advantage. I don't see the upside for members in any of this. It seems as if making weekday and weekends even would be a big help. I'd rather compete with DVC folks within drive distance who are making long weekends than with non-DVC members who are renting out all the weeks leaving members with a much harder time to book a full week (including weekends).

Sure the points are being given away cheap. If you are faced with getting some cash versus getting nothing I could see it. But, why just, as Ann says, give your points away to strangers? Why not make plans to use these points for your own vacations. If not Disney, then any of the other programs. Or let your own friends and family use them? It doesn't make sense to me either.

 

[Peterd]

I agree. I think the renters are really under-charging for their points. At $10 per point, you are charging what it would cost at the All-Stars without the 11% tax, and much less than at the moderate resorts. I can see if you're gonna lose them, and can't bank them. People can do what they want with their points, but what's wrong with charging instead of a per pt fee, a per night fee? The BW and Okw studio average about $225-300 per night + tax. Why not rent the rooms for half price, say 110 to 150 per night? That would still be less than the moderates. How could someone complain about that? no tax, and half price.
Look at the rent/trade board. The word's out. Someone posts points for rent, and immediatly gets 7 replies. You would think this would raise the price.
I know it would be impossible to find out, but I wonder when the Resorts are sold out between the 7 and 11 month window, How many non-DVC renters at 10 per pt are staying there? Getting the 25% discount on rooms is getting harder and harder to find. Even with the discount, a two bedroom would cost me close to $500 per night, while the non-DVC renter pays $240.
Again, I don't care what anyone charges for their points. People could give them away if they wanted. I've purchased someone's resv. to add to resv. we already had on the boards at half price of what the rooms would have cost me if I paid cash. We felt pretty lucky to get them. I just think people are short-changing themselves.

 

[PamOKW]

The really nice thing is when someone is paying a bargain rate to stay at a DVC resort but had their reservation made at 11 months, they will get the first choice of a room request over a member.

I know everyone says that's tough and members can do whatever they want with their points but it still stinks.

Not to generalize on member vs. non-member abuse of rooms but someone who is looking for the rock bottom cheapest way to do things will not have much of a problem with adding 1 or 2 (or 3?) extra folks into that bargain room. I'm not saying every renter will do this or every member will not, I just think the odds increase.

There was a special on Spring Breaks. They mentioned how in Panama City kids rent a room at Best Western and then have 10 stay in it. This is exactly what I want to see monitored from happening at DVC. A college kid rents a studio for $80 bucks a night and splits it with 8 friends. Not beyond the realm of possibility.

 

[AnnK]

Letting someone rent a studio for less than a room at All- Star is unbelieveable.
I agree with Pam that someone renting is more likely to only want a Sunday through Thursday night, since they are paying per point and will not want to pay the higher point cost for the weekend.
I too would prefer to change the point values, even if it makes it so that a DVC member who lives nearby can stay for more long weekends, better that then members fighting non-members for rooms all week, when of course we also use less points. Also, how many weekends could the nearby DVC member take? They only have so many points to use per year.
Peter has a point, if you look at the rent/trade the points are being scooped up, I would say it's simply becasue anyone would rather have a room at any of the DVC resorts for such low prices.I know and agree that they are your points and you can do with them as you want, but it's really upsetting that people can now get a room at BWV, OKW or VWL for less than they would pay to stay at All-Star. Outrageous really......

 

[Firefighter Mickey]

Now, in addition to just being down on renters in general, we've added the twist that we should be coming down on renters because they rent the points too cheaply and they cause excess wear and tear on the resort.

What can we collectively come up with next?

 

[Stephen]

I originally found this site hoping to find other DVC members with whom I could "share" points with. I will need a few extra points to round out a ressie for a family re-union next summer and thought if I could find the rest of you, I could pick up some extra points. Well, I found you, and I was right.

I like the idea of selling some of my extra points, when I have them, to help other DVC members. And likewise, being able to buy them when I am a little short for that BIG vacation. For these purposes, $10 seems fair. I don't have a problem paying $10, nor would I charge other DVC members more than $10. But, like many of you have pointed out, non DVC members are staying at deluxe resorts for value prices because we are selling our points to these folks. This becomes particularly frustrating when we can't get our ressies because of non member reservations, even though, practically speaking, it is just like the member was staying.

SHARE, SELL, RENT YOUR POINTS TO YOUR DVC BROTHERS AND SISTERS! That's right. Let's try and restrict our sale of points to other DVC members. At least at the $10 rate. Can we establish another rate for non-members when we have no other choice but to sell to them?

Just like the guy in the quote said, he found a way to pay value and get deluxe. It is not his fault. We should not be selling to him (unless we are in dire straits and need to unload the points). Wouldn't you rather be selling or renting to another DVC member?

 

[Peterd]

To say some are down on renters is incorrect, Like stated above, we could care less if you GIVE your' points away. Some were just saying you're giving your points away, way to cheap.
It's nice, along with the All-star prices, these people also get all the DVC perks. Discounts at Restraunts, free movie rentals etc...
If you don't agree, keep selling for $10 per point.
I own at both BW and Okw, and I don't think it's right for an Okw owner who wants to try out the BW or vice versa, and can't get in because a non-member/non-family has the room at a better rate than any DVCer could ever get.
To anyone who has a lot of points,I know in reality, if you didn't rent out, you would probably be in the room anyway. Maybe, you would stay in a Two-bedroom or grand villa, and wouldn't take up 10 studios for five nights with the 600 +points you own. It seems more rooms are going to more non members lately, instead of members.

 

[wvjules]

I understand that DVC members pay a lot for their membership and value their points. I am not a member, nor can I afford it. I've never taken a vacation in my life and plan on taking my 6 year old daughter to WDW for her birthday. I am a single mother trying to make a nice vacation on a very limited budget. If I can find a way to cut costs, you bet I'm going to try it. However, you all obviously have a lot more money than I do and if you can't use your points and they are available when a non-member could use them, then what's the harm in someone less wealthy than yourselves being able to purchase your points. You all are sounding like a bunch of spoiled brats in grade school.

 

[Bumpy]

WVjules,
I personally think you are way out of line with your reasoning. You assume that every DVC member is wealthy and that is not the case. I am willing to bet that there are many DVC people who have even less money than you. I dont know how you dare calling someone a spoiled brat for wanting a return on their money invested. You are not the one who makes a commitment for 40 plus years and why should you reep the benefits at a cheaper rate than DVC people. People can do what ever they wish with their own points but the point that is being made is that non DVC members are getting benefits that we dont even get. Under your reasoning I should be able to use your car for say 1.00 dollar a day even though you are paying much more for that ownership between financing and insurance and maintance. But if your not going to use it you mine as well give it away to someone else less fortunate right. Spoiled brats! Geesh now I have heard it all!

 

[Peggy Sue]

wvjules--- I normally don't enter too many of these debates, but as a DVC member you hit a raw nerve with your response.

We are not "a bunch of spoiled brats in grade school" and we all have financial struggles and responsibilities just like the next guy. We are not all rolling in buckets of cash..the majority of us work hard for our money and we have individually made the decision to invest in our future vacations with DVC. I take exection to your statement.."However, you all obviously have a lot more money than I do and if you can't use your points and they are available when a non-member could use them, then what's the harm in someone less wealthy than yourselves being able to purchase your points."

As a DVC member, I think Ann and Pam have made some very valid points about individuals selling their points below what the market will bear and what we as members have to pay for a room at a DVC resort when we don't use our points. As a collective group, it is not our responsiblity to make sure we offer up our points at a low cost so those "less wealthy" can enjoy the DVC resorts. IMHO that is just an absurd statement to make!

If you're selling your DVC points, and the market will bear a higher price per point, I say go for it! Why should you offer a deluxe villa cheaper than the all star resorts! I know if the day ever comes that we decide we need to sell a few points that we might not be able to use, I will be looking for the best bang for my investment dollar and not worrying that someone "less wealthy" than I can enjoy the DVC resorts.

Have a wonderful day!

 

[wvjules]

I was not implying that someone should 'give' their points to a non-member or anyone for that matter. However, isn't up to the seller's discretion to sell the points for whatever he/she wants and not have to worry about what the other DVC members are doing with their points?

As for having more money than I do, I'm sure some of you do, some of you don't. For jumping to conclusions about financials of any member, I apologize.

I'm just getting frustrated trying to plan this vacation.

If I offended anyone, please accept my apologies.

 

[POLLY ANN]

wvjules, if you need help planning your vacation, there are people here with a "wealth" of knowledge. (pun intended! LOL)

Go to the Budget Board, for example, you will find a TON of information there to go to Disney on a shoestring budget. I personally like to read the Trip Reports board to see how other people spend their days in the parks.

The Restaurant Board or the Resorts board are also good ones to help in finding good food and nice hotels. I know how overwhelming it feels to plan an itinerary, especially to Disney. You want to make sure the trip is extra special for all involved and don't want to miss anything.

You can even ask a question here, I know someone will help you.

formerly POLLYANNA35

DVC Member since 1995

 

[Dean]

First, you guys convinced me, I am officially raising my price to $12 pp. That is when I get more points next year since as they're all gone now.

Second, wvjules, though off base on the wealth thing (she already apologized) is correct in that there's no reason non members shouldn't have the option to rent also. In talking to people over the last few years about renting out some of my points, I've had a lot more difficulty dealing with members than non members. Offers and counter offers seem to be far more common when a member contacts me for points rental possiblities. The truth is that most people I hear from about wanting to rent (members and non members) are very nice people but the idea that members are easier to deal with and will take better care of the resort just isn't supported in my limited experience of dealing with both groups.

Sure there's the possiblity of the spring break type crowd with members and non members alike. I suspect that relatives of members are far more likely to do this than someone renting from a member but who knows for certain.

Peterd, I think to say some are down on renters and those that rent their points is right on target, not everyone, but some are. The basic points structure has certain risks involved. Currently those risks include the Sun-Fri usage and the chance that those that are enterprising and plan ahead will get all the best rooms at the best times (GV, Boardwalk, Christmas, Dec, etc).

I'm surprised to see several people promoting evening out the points though I personally would have thought DVC would have done this last year or this one. Remember if they evenout out too much, weekend usage will go way up. A major shift of the points structure may take some other change to go with it. Something like giving those that want to book a week a higher priority or allowing them to book earlier. Or requiring the entire weekday/weekend block to go together. Or at least a 3 day minimum or some other ploy to keep people from booking just the weekends. Other timeshares I've seen that have a points structure would have weekends about 50% higher but of course, they're not at WDW. I'd suspect that about 60-80% more for weekend nights would be about right. I'm sure that DVC would like to change the points and has for a couple of years but with the backlash last time and the survey, they have been reluctant to unless they absolutely must. Now I'm not saying all of the thoughts above fit well into the legal paperwork, some probably don't but just to get people thinking there with any change may come some negatives as well as hopefully positives. Remember this is only my experience and opinion which with a dollar might get you a cup of coffee.

Dean

 

[danacara]

Hi all,
I'm a non DVC member. I rented points and stayed at BWV in January. The market says $10 per point. You can raise your price to $12, $14, whatever, but there will be someone to undercut you at $10 in the current market. Please note that potential rentees on the rent/trade board are getting responses from three or four potential point renters each time they inquire. If you don't like the price, then by all means collude and raise it, as this is a totally unregulated market. But don't moan about it on totally subjective ground (excess wear and tear on the carpets? non-DVC members getting free video rentals? I'm sure it's heartfelt when it's written, but reading this stuff on the board, you sound like a whiner). I definitely plan on renting points again in the future, and I don't expect to pay more than $10 unless the renters plan a mass price rise.

Dorm Sweet Dorm

 

[Bigcat]

I have the right to rent my points if I want to...to anyone I want to. I will also try to get the most $ for my points!

It is a false argument to say that members can't get reservations because other members are renting out points. What difference should it make if I am in the room or someone who I rented to. I am not taking anything away from other members. They have the same reservation rights that I have.

Off-Site 2/92
Coronado Springs 11/98
Swan 3/00
MOWC 7/00
BWV 1/01
Hilton Head Isl DVC 3/01
BWV 11/01

 

[Peterd]

Bigcat, no one wants to be in your business sell your points for 5 bucks a point, we don't care. No one's going to force you to sell for more. If you don't like to read how others feel, don't read. How is it a false argument that if you rent out, other DVC members miss out? We own a decent amount of points, and usually reserve a two bedroom a couple times a year or a grand villa. I don't think you could find someone to rent the amount of points it would take to get a grand villa for two weeks at the BW. So if I were to rent my points, I would be renting out 10 or more studios for five days in a preferred view to non-members. I think this would be unfair to the other members. Again, I don't care what you do with your points. When I joined, I thought this was an exclusive club. I didn't realize that anyone could stay at our resort for a Quarter of the price, no dues, and you get benefits. I wish these boards were around then. I would have saved myself a lot of money.
Danacara, hello to you too, no one's whining here. Mentioning the DVC "perks", such as video rentals, discounts at restaurants, water parks,Fantasia gardens,DisneyQuest, and a few others, is just reminding others what "our" dues pay for. I like how you state how people will undercut someone's price, and how you EXPECT not to have to pay more than $10 per point. Good for you, you sound like a good bargain hunter. As for collusion for higher prices, everyone's an adult here. Everyone will do what's good for themselves. Don't worry, you can still get your rock bottom prices here. If the prices do rise, Don't worry, you can always get the All-Star for the same price. It's good to hear from some of the people who aren't members, I like to know how they think. Another good reason to rent to only members.

 

[Bumpy]

Peterd,
Very well put! I agree it is interesting to see how some are viewing the renting of points. I personally would not rent to anyone of these renters. there seems to be some sort of attitude that DVC members owe some great deal to non members. Yes this is a free country and you can rent at your own price , but if enough people understand that they are being taking advantage of they just might increase their price and increase the market. This worries non DVC members cause they would seriously loose out. That is why you see such resistance from the renters. But like you say if they dont like the price they can go back to staying at the all stars and recieve the appropriate accomadtions for their price. I really think the market would hold up just fine. We have some of the nicest resorts on WDW property and we need to start acting like it. All Stars cannot compare to OKW, WLV, Boardwalk. I dont think there is anything wrong with renting points but I think the price needs to increase to reflect the product.

 

[danacara]

If you could come up with a mechanism to encourage point collusion credibly, you could all raise your bottom line by a whole lot. For instance, if you encouraged point auctioning rather than complaining about the use of Ebay (the auctions invariably close higher than $10/point), or if you encouraged a "bidoff" where members with excess points could post and nonmembers submitted public bids for them by replying to the post (just another form of an auction). You could also attempt to decrease supply on the boards by requiring a long rentee-registration procedure or by having the DIS require the use of an escrow service, etc.
I think there is some misunderstanding about the way pricing works. $10 is not an arbitrarily low number chosen to insult DVC members and load up the resorts. $10 is the market equilibrium at which the renter and the rentee reach equal marginal utility levels. There is an economic reason that the price stands at $10. You can raise that price by decreasing the supply of points on the board or increasing demand, and under current Disney DVC policy, which allows guests and cannot really enforce rules against renters, that's about all you can do

 

[Bigcat]

peterd...you have mistaken my point. I think, as many here have expressed, that the going rate of $10/point is low. Obviously, Disney thinks so too. They are charging much more than the equivalent of $10/pt. for cash reservations and seem to have no problem getting it. You can rest assured that the few points that I have rented where for more than $10/pt and the people who rented them have been happy to get them! I think the members renting their points would be suprised to find out how much people would pay if they just asked!

We will have to agree to disagree about being fair to other members when we rent points.

I also disagree that DVC is an "exclusive club"...anybody with about $10K can be a member ( and rent out their points if they chose.)

Off-Site 2/92
Coronado Springs 11/98
Swan 3/00
MOWC 7/00
BWV 1/01
Hilton Head Isl DVC 3/01
BWV 11/01