FYI point value according to those who rent......

[PamOKW]

TrudyZ there is so much going on with this thread it could make your head spin!

Renting is allowed and under some circumstances I can see that it does no harm. I do not hold the people doing the renting responsible for the system, they are the innocent bystanders. Accountability for damage by members or their guests (or renters) is something DVC should strictly enforce, as they would at any other resort. I hope that they are doing so.

My concern is exactly what you pointed out about E-Bay. The rules of the game are changing due to E-Bay. I want DVC to be sure that this type of rental will continue to do no harm and to verify that it is a personal use of points by individual members and not any type of rental agent business. Protection of the majority should be the concern.

I was looking at these E-Bay auctions today as well. I don't quite get what some of them are doing. They lay out the low rent times and stipulate they are only interested in renting Su-Th time slots. But, there is no guarantee that they'll be able to book the time the person who wins the bid desires. They say "subject to availability". If they cannot come up with the date the person wants, is the person let out of the deal? Doesn't seem fair for someone to bid expecting them to come through on the suggested date and resort and then "bait and switch". I also wouldn't be happy if after I won a bid I was told sorry, can't get that date after all. Just seems weird.

 

[TrudyZ]

PamOKW,

From what I can tell on Ebay nothing is guaranteed except for the HOLIDAY times. According to the advertisements, the Owners already have the reservations for these and are selling these prime time reservations to the highest bidder (who meets their reserve, of course). I am not an Owner yet (so therefore it is none of my business), but if I was, that would sure rub me the wrong way.

As for availability, I just rented a studio about 2 1/2 months out. Tried three different 7-day weeks for any of the on-sites (WLV, BWV, or OKW); only OKW came up available for any of the weeks (2 of the 3). I tried to get BWV standard or preferred studio at 9 1/2 months out (10 day stretch for anytime within a 6 week period)--it wasn't available. With renting, there is no "waitlisting". I think if you were bidding on the Ebay listings for BWVs, you have a pretty good chance of being disappointed.

 

[Peterd]

I believe the thread was originally sent out for members, but I can see why some part-time members feel the need to post. Don't want to lose the biggest discount Disney (oops wrong) that anyone has ever offered.
When some say there will always be someone to sell you their points for $10 or less per point, Is way off. You're getting lucky now, but not for long.
Renters/bargain hunters, more power to you! I have no problem with you getting someone to rent their membership to you for the extremely low rate that some of the DVc members are willing to unload their points.
To be the buyer what a deal! You get DVC discounts/ on-site, and you get the room for the price of the All-star or the Vistana. Another thing, don't EVEN compare the Vistana to any DVC property. Not even close!,but that's another thread.
I think it's funny about this thread. Dvc members are just trying to tell the OTHER DVC members that they are selling themselves too short. If they don't listen to us, it's up to them. Why would a non-member get involved in this discussion? Oh that's why, it might work. I think it's funny that about 98% of the people that have a problem with some of the members trying to tell other members that they are selling their rooms way too low, are The renters/bargain hunters. For the other 2% (DVC members)with the problem of us SUGGESTING that they are selling to low, It's ok, you don't have to feel guilty and yell "leave me alone, I'll do what I want", you can still sell your points for as little as you want. It's still your investment. Don't read anymore,it will upset you. If you want, give your rooms away to family, or Donate them to charity. You'll get more back in taxes, and it'll make you feel better. I know "leave me alone."
When the non DVC members post that the $10 per point is the set price and going lower because of the economy is ridiculous.
There are reasons why the members rent:
1.Some family member canceled a resv., so they have to get rid of the rooms or lose them. This doesn't happen that much,and the member can usually cancel and save the points.
2. Someone has just experienced a major change in their lives such as divorce/change of job/or some other misfortune in the year. These people will probably wind up selling their membership in the near future, or only rent for a year or two, until things return to the way they were.
3. They forgot to bank and are just looking to get back their dues.
4.Are the people looking to either sell their membership soon or are looking to make a profit.
Maybe, Some of the sellers could enlighten us as to why they sell/rent.
For the renter/bargain hunter to say that the price will remain the same is only wishful thinking.
Call for the next few months for a resv. at a DVc resort. SOLD OUT! I'm not saying for the members to scalp (like half price is scalping), but you can if you want.

[This message was edited by Peterd on 03-18-01 at 09:46 AM.]

 

[eva]

Trudy,
I'm glad that you are going down to check out the resorts before you purchase. Knowing which resort to purchase at is very important. When you come back after purchasing I'm sure that you will receive a hearty Welcome Home. But if you read a number of other posts, especially on the Budget Board, then you will find that you and a few others that post here are the exception to the rule. I really do not believe that most renters are going with the goal of purchasing while there. Like I said before, I really don't care if members rent out their points at all. And I'm not concerned with why they are renting their points or why others are renting from them. But if a member is renting out their points then I would assume that means that they have no intention of using the points themselves. So they would either bank the points, lose the points, or take a last minute vacation. None of those circumstances would interfere with other members making reservations at the 7-month window. I guess that I am just frustrated because it is getting very difficult to make reservations anymore at the 7-month window. I love my home resort and stay there most of the time making reservations at the 11-month window. But part of the supposed flexibility of DVC was the ability to occasionally stay at other DVC resorts. I have no idea if renting has become one of the reasons that this option is becoming more and more difficult. I guess that I just feel that members should have preference over renters. I'm not trying to be snobby, I just feel that we have socked a lot of money into DVC and when renters that pay $80 a night are snatching up reservations before we even get a chance I just wonder why we purchased. Maybe we should have rented too and then we could get that 11-month window at the resort of our choice without taking any chances. I hope that renters enjoy their vacations. I have no problems with what they are doing. They are just going after the best deal they can. No one can fault them at that. And I really can't fault the members that are renting out their points if DVC is going to allow it. I just think that DVC has to do something to insure that the members are receiving some preference over renters, or what's the point of buying at all?

 

[normr]

Then I apologize, but the point I was trying to get across was and I'm sure as a timeshare owner too that if this trend continues with renters, we're only hurting ourselves.

If you decide to buy in to DVC, we'll all welcome you with open arms and give you a hearty "Welcome Home",.

Let us know what you decide.. Good luck in convincing your husband.

 

[Cary]

Excuse me, but is it legal with Disney to sell your point's to people (who want a vacation)who are not DVC Member's ? We are from England, but my husband say's that he thought it was against the rule's of our contract to let anyone use it or pay to use it who were not family or friend's.

 

[PamOKW]

Cary your husband is correct that the "spirit" of the DVC contract is to allow rental to family and friends. However, the wording is such that people have started to rent to anyone and some for profit. The clause is that it should be personal "non-commercial" use and there is debate over what that means. Those who rent out also argue that DVC can't prove the person isn't a family or friend. So, it is legal but the question is at what point it becomes a commercial endeavor. It is up to DVC to determine this.

 

[Cary]

Wow Pam i am impressed,at the speed of your reply that is!!!I have no problem with people renting out their point's, infact i only found out about this recently.I wish that i had known sooner as there has been several times when we have been a few point's short for the vacation we wanted and have had to alter our dates to fit in with our point's available.It would be great to see a board where DVC members got first refusal of renting these point's,i suppose it would be too much work on Disney's part to operate such a thing and regulate it on behalf of member's? I must say it does'nt feel quite the same "home away from home" as it used to at OKW, most of the people that i have talked to there over the last couple of year's are actually just renting there.What happened to the member's get together's? has this just been abandoned for the sake of the breakfast invitation's that have been set up to get you to purchase more point's

 

[rsinj]

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[AnnK]

Quote

"AnnK, and on the $10 pp--go ahead (as I have said MANY times before), charge what you would like. In fact, if you think or know that you can get more than $10 pp, you had better hurry. We all know that the economy is softening, the amount of discretionary money around is quickly decreasing, and such extras as vacations, etc., are always the first to go. Look at Disney itself. I have never seen as many deals and discounts on rooms for this time of year before. Don't you wonder why? "

I DON'T NEED TO HURRY.
I do not rent my points. I have not had anything happen to me that would cause me to have the need to rent my points. I bought with the full intention of using my MEMBERSHIP to vacation at Disney. I DO KNOW people who rent their extra points, they never charge per point, they charge per room, and it's less than Disney. They have NO PROBLEM getting people to pay. In fact they always have people waiting for rooms. I believe the per point system was set up for DVC MEMBERS to EXCHANGE points, what is the point of charging a person who rents per point? Do they have point charts?
I am not surprised that you are challenging the price raise, hey I am not happy with the mid-east raising the cost of oil, but the truth is they can get us to pay more, and DVC members can get more for their investment too.

 

[disneygals]

Normr....thanks and I apologize if my opinion was not stated clearly in my original post.

disneygals

 

[diaman]

In response to eBay and renting points there. We own one of the largest internet business in our business field. We are eBay powersellers and earned recognition from them as well as New York Times, Bussiness Week, and Time magazines. Anyways, we sold some of our extra points last year and charged the renters on a per night basis. We rented out to her for $190/per night when disney was charging $295. This lady was soooo happy she got this deal! We worked with her on availibity, since that was the trade off for the discounted rate she could have received from Disney. The rental price we received was a lot more than $10! Since alot of people are weary of internet transactions, renters with a strong internet backgrounds can get higher prices. Would you rent from a eBay seller with a zero feedback and seems a little shady for $10/pp or a established seller with high feedback & 100% positive track record for a couple $$ more? I'd pay the couple $$ more for the piece of mind that I will have a reservations when I get to WDW. In any case, you can't get room deals through Disney like what DVC members are charging. Disney dosen't discount much for anything! Like room rates and especially ticket prices. You can't find discount ticket prices in the percentage off that DVC memebers are charging for the rooms, even on ebay! Just my humble opinion and past experience

 

[Figaro30]

With all this debate...maybe Disney shouldn't have allowed DVC to be rented out publicly.

'81 - Cont.
'88 - Disneyland
'89 - Maingate East
'91 - CBR
'94 - CBR
'95 - CBR
'98 - BC
'00 - WL
'01 - OKW

 

[mrsdon]

I've tried to stay out of this debate, and now its 6 pages long.
We recently rented 55 points to a stranger and it was through the rent/trade board. It doensn't matter if a member is staying or if the member made the ressie for a non-member and rented those points the room is taken. The beauty of DVC is the flexabilty of being able to stay at diffeent resorts.
My points are mine and mine alone and what I do with them is my business. I dont get angry when I cant get the dates I want. Thats the breaks. Try getting ressies at a hotel in the super bowl city during the big game. Or the Olympics. These things just happen.

 

[Dizzy4Dizney]

Hi,
Being a newbie, I was interested in the point renting. I figured out it costs me about $11.50 a point per year, so I would sell my points for about $13.00. I can see why there are differnt amounts to rent out the points.

I was surprised at the low amount of $10.00. I'd rather give them to a family member or friend than sell them that low.

The point renting is a great idea for us DVC members who might need just a few extra points for certain vacations. I don't want it to go away!!!

DVC Member 1999
BWV 03-2001
BW 09-1999
ASR 02-1998

 

[one_cat]

I've also been very quiet on this subject - mainly because I just rented out 130+ points. I feel the same way many others feel that I'd like to get as much as I can for the points I rent. However, I didn't have a whole lot of choice. If I waited around to find someone who was willing to give me 13 or 20.00 per point I would have lost them all and would have had nothing to show for the family cancellation. In addition, I work and couldn't spend a lot of time chasing buyers. I wanted them sold as soon as possible so I could get on with the rest of my life. Renting points takes a lot of time and emails. Not something to be taken lightly.

3 days after I posted mine for sale someone else posted theirs at 7.25/point. Those points had an expiration next February - if you can believe it. Talk about someone who could have gotten some real money for their points. However it put me in a position where I felt I had even less say over my asking price. After all if I wanted 15.00 there was a person right down the road willing to take 1/2 with less restrictions.

I didn't buy DVC with any intention of every renting points but after having to cancel a ressie with no way to bank the points I really didn't have a choice.

Cheers!!

O

Children are like phonecalls - they always come in pairs.

 

[wininbid]

You're right, the value of the points is more than $10 each. Actually it is $72 per point. So, why not rent out your points for $72 each, then you could recoup your investment quicker!

 

[rsinj]

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[PamOKW]

OKW for less than $7 per point! That's the rate posted over on the Resort Board. Someone got a studio for a weekend in July for $169 per night. At 27 points per night even with tax they are under $7 and get maid service included.

Unless you are backed into a corner on point usage I still think your best bet and value is to use them yourself for your vacation at WDW or elsewhere.

(I just realized this isn't clear. The $169 rate is direct from Disney.)

[This message was edited by PamOKW on 03-20-01 at 10:53 AM.]

 

[ckr]

Dizzy4Disney wrote:
"I was surprised at the low amount of $10.00. I'd rather give them to a family member or friend than sell them that low."

I think that is the point. At $10 per point, members are more likely to use the VACATION CLUB as that, and not a commercial endeavor.

mrsdon wrote:
"It doensn't matter if a member is staying or if the member made the ressie for a non-member and rented those points the room is taken."

But the rental activity being seen does change the dynamics of what type of units are being used and what days of the week. Most are for studios and for Sun-Thurs only. If you were to use your points for your own vacation, you may be more inclined to stay longer and/or in a larger unit. By using points to rent a Sun-Thurs Studio, you would be able to do multiple ressies and rentals. This will impact others who want to use their vacation points to stay for a full week. [Note: We just did an impromtu trip to BWV last weekend. Called Wednesday afternoon and got Pref View Studio for Friday and Saturday. Could not get anything at BWV for Thursday. Is this due to renting or the weekend flight of members due to the point structure? Don't know. Just found it interesting....]

mrsdon also wrote:
"The beauty of DVC is the flexabilty of being able to stay at diffeent resorts."

That is one of the arguments against renting. Some feel that the units at the resorts that are not their home are being snatched up by members for renting, thus not leaving them available for other DVC members to trade into at the 7-month mark.

one_cat wrote:
"I feel the same way many others feel that I'd like to get as much as I can for the points I rent. However, I didn't have a whole lot of choice. If I waited around to find someone who was willing to give me 13 or 20.00 per point I would have lost them all and would have had nothing to show for the family cancellation. ... Renting points takes a lot of time and emails. Not something to be taken lightly."

This type of situation is exactly what renting is for. A rent or lose situation. $10 is better than nothing.

My vote is to keep $10/point. Don't reward those who are playing the system for profit, but leave a system available to help out members when they get in a bind. JMHO