Free Kate

[roomthreeseventeen]

Just because this happens doesn't make it any less gross and it certainly isn't normal in my book.

I hardly think anyone should be judging what is gross.

 

[iheartdisney]

She was not a "victim". She wasn't forcibly raped. She was a willing participant.

People who are found to be too intoxicated to give consent are not "forcibly raped", yet are still victims. And their rapists are still tried and convicted.

And as for her ruining more lives, I'm pretty sure she's not going to have a very active social life for a long, long time.

 

[moon]

My guess is that they chose to press charges because they asked her twice to stop dating their daughter. What do you do when you tell your kid to not to do something and someone else (an adult in this case) helps her break your rules? You use what is available.

If I asked you to stop dating my kid twice and you wouldn't back off but rather decided to actively pursue my child, I would press charges too. I can only ground my kid. I can't do anything to yours.

Not only that, but it looks like Kate helped the younger one to run away. That went too far, and it may have been the last straw for the parents

 

[Disney Springs]

Regardless of how anyone sides with this situation, it's a great lesson for 18 year olds, (boys and girls), out there. They need to be aware of this law, and know what the potential consequences can be if they are convicted. 18 year olds should NOT be having relations with minors....period. Whether it's a boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl. That's the law.

The law is set up to protect minors. 18 is the age where you can legally live on your own, hold down a job, and drive. So the law chose this age to also have the choice to consent to "relations". Minors are very vulnerable, and they may accidentally get caught up in something they have no experience with. An 18 year old could take advantage of that.

How weird there's a double standard for girls in this situation. If it had been an 18 year old boy, having relations w/14 year old girl, no one would give this a second thought. Everyone would say, "Put him in jail."

But for some reason because she had relations 14 yo girl, people are actually feeling sorry for her? Wonder if the same would hold true if she had relations w/ a 14 year old boy, (instead of a girl). Hummm....

This is NOT about sexual orientation. It's about age. The parents of the 14 year old could have chosen to press charges just for the heck of it, or just out of spite. But regardless, they are justified in their choice. The law was broken, and they have a right to seek justice. (Their 14 year old "consenting" to relations won't hold up in court, because in the eyes of the law, the 14 year old doesn't have the legal right to make that choice.) But again, that's the law working in favor of the minors. Which is why adults 18 and older, need to be aware.

 

[LisaR]

I hardly think anyone should be judging what is gross.

Sorry, but I most certainly can judge what I feel is gross by my own standards. I not one of those Dis'ers who swears they never judge.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Sorry, but I most certainly can judge what I feel is gross by my own standards. I not one of those Dis'ers who swears they never judge.

If there's nothing wrong with a 19 year old dating a 15 year old, I fail to see what the problem is one month before that.

 

[Colleen27]

I agree with you that the law is flawed, but I don't agree with your solution at all. I think that is nothing but an open invitation for forcing unwanted sex on people all under the guise that the law says we can do it because we go to school together.

How so? Force and coercion are addressed in other areas of law that don't hinge on age or age difference. Statutory rape/age of consent laws don't apply in those cases - they address the specific situation of how old one must be for consent to be legally acceptable.

 

[Nancyg56]

Oh, don't get me wrong, I don't purpose for anyone to tell their teen just to ignore the law. If someone's 18 year old is dating someone under 16 then they need to be warned.



And see, this is one of my issues with this. Its a punishment. They are using this law to punish Kate in a way that they cannot punish their own child.

I agree that if they intended to take this plan of action, they should have made everyone aware of it up front. Even if Kate knew the law, she may have thought that they wouldn't press charges.

Putting Kate in jail is not going to stop their dd from having sex. Its not going to change what happened and its not going to make their child straight. Its just going to ruin Kate's life. What positive is going to come from it?

Nothing positive. Nothing positive comes when it happens to other young people either, but parents have the right to press charges if they feel that their child has been violated. These parents feel this way. I don't know the entire story, and I bet we never will, but whatever the outcome, this is sad.

I hope she does, but she sounds like a rebellious 14 year old. There is a chance she won't and may do it again. And my question would be (to the parents), how many lives does she get to ruin? NOT saying its all the 14 year old's fault and that the 18 y.o is innocent; but just that her parents have the power as long as she is under the age of consent.

As for so many supporting the law, I would bet you are right. UNTIL its their 18 year old.

Like I said, though, dd is semi-dating an almost 18 year old. My job is to talk to my dd, give my dd the knowledge and the tools she needs to make good choices. And to have the self esteem and the self respect to not be convinced, talked into or manipulated into having sex with him or any one else.

I think that if you disapproved of the relationship, and your DD persisted and the 18 YO persisted even though you said to stop, and then the 18 YO helped your 14 YO child run away, teh conversation would be different. It seems that was the final straw for these parents. I will say that if an adult (and 18 is an adult) helped my DD run away, all of my good nature would disappear. Not sure what I would do, but I think I know what my DH would do, and it would not be pretty.

 

[LisaR]

If there's nothing wrong with a 19 year old dating a 15 year old, I fail to see what the problem is one month before that.

I was commenting on a 16 y/o marrying a 20 y/o. There is no reason on the face of this earth for a 16 year old to get married, period. I don't care what is "normal" in other countries. They might find it normal, I find it archaic, disgusting, and likely forced. I am not talking about two people dating.

And I also love how you are putting the one month stipulation on it. What if the 19 y/o was just one month from turning 20 and the 15 y/o had only turned 15 one month before? Why are we to assume it is one month in your direction? But again, that wasn't what my gross comment was for. It was regarding a 16 y/o already being married.

 

[LisaR]

How so? Force and coercion are addressed in other areas of law that don't hinge on age or age difference. Statutory rape/age of consent laws don't apply in those cases - they address the specific situation of how old one must be for consent to be legally acceptable.

I think if you put the stipulation in there that it is okay as long as they go to school together, it may become more difficult to address the consent issues. The wording would have to be very specific because it seems ripe for a good lawyer to get around it.

 

[Colleen27]

An 18 year old adult having sexual relations with a 14 year old isn't normal, it's exploitation and criminal.

Exploitation requires an imbalance of power that just doesn't exist between peers IMO. And of course it is criminal - but just because something *is* criminal doesn't mean is *deserves to be* criminal. Laws change as society changes, and this is one whose time has come. It makes no sense to draw a line based on birth date that dictates one cannot pursue a relationship with one's peers/classmates.

 

[Colleen27]

Regardless of how anyone sides with this situation, it's a great lesson for 18 year olds, (boys and girls), out there. They need to be aware of this law, and know what the potential consequences can be if they are convicted. 18 year olds should NOT be having relations with minors....period. Whether it's a boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl. That's the law.

To me, the "its the law" argument only goes so far. Until a few years ago, my state (and a dozen others) outlawed the sexual activities that homosexual couples (and many hetero couples) engage in. Should parents then have been warning their teens and young adults that only hetero intercourse is acceptable because other forms of sexual contact were illegal and "the law is the law"?

 

[Sanchez]

How so? Force and coercion are addressed in other areas of law that don't hinge on age or age difference. Statutory rape/age of consent laws don't apply in those cases - they address the specific situation of how old one must be for consent to be legally acceptable.

I think your proposed solution posted earlier is well thought out. The problem with your comparison above is how consent is defined. In the situations above consent is an action (whether affirmative or implied.) The issue here is whether a 14 year old is capable of granting consent. The statute creates a bright line (an age) to resolve who is and who is not capable of consent.

To me, there are three ways to approach the problem:

1. A bright line age reference (the current law);
2. A modified bright line. This would be the "secondary school" categorization (the basis of your proposed solution);
3. A case by case review depending on the individual facts of a case.

The weakness in approach number one is that some 14/18 year old relationships can be consensual as discussed on this thread. The weakness in approach number two is that some high school students are not capable of consent. Some freshman are 13 years old and some seniors could be 19. Approach number three is problematic because there is no minimum standard - there would need to be some combination of one and three or two and three.

 

[chobie]

Regardless of how anyone sides with this situation, it's a great lesson for 18 year olds, (boys and girls), out there. They need to be aware of this law, and know what the potential consequences can be if they are convicted. 18 year olds should NOT be having relations with minors....period. Whether it's a boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl. That's the law.

The law is set up to protect minors. 18 is the age where you can legally live on your own, hold down a job, and drive. So the law chose this age to also have the choice to consent to "relations". Minors are very vulnerable, and they may accidentally get caught up in something they have no experience with. An 18 year old could take advantage of that.

How weird there's a double standard for girls in this situation. If it had been an 18 year old boy, having relations w/14 year old girl, no one would give this a second thought. Everyone would say, "Put him in jail."

But for some reason because she had relations 14 yo girl, people are actually feeling sorry for her? Wonder if the same would hold true if she had relations w/ a 14 year old boy, (instead of a girl). Hummm.....

There's no double standard. Several people on this thread mentioned they had relatives or knew people who were in these types of relationships with the sexed reversed and thought there was nothing wrong with it.

Senior boys date freshman and sophomore girls all the time, and except for the occasionally the girl's Parents, there is no big outcry about this.

If it was older boy and younger girl there would be just as many people pointing out the girl's acquiescence and feeling sorry for the boy as the are people who would want him prosecuted. Just like there are people on this thread on both sides of the issue.

 

[luvsJack]

You do not know all the details. None of us do. This may have started out as consensual, but the 14 y/o may have finally started to have a conscience but didn't know how to put a stop to the sex. She may have felt she loved Kate and wanted to be with her, but she now wanted to hold off on the sex. It is very hard for most people to say no to sex once they have started. Can you imagine a 14 y/o having the capacities to maneuver through a relationship while changing up the rules?

Now I am not saying this is what happened. It could simply be a case of a parent wanting their child out of a relationship and they were at the end of their rope.
I don't know the details. The parents felt a need to press charges and they have every right to do so by law. If this goes to court (and I hope it doesn't) maybe we will find out some of the details.

I should have said, nothing has shown us that she is a victim.

You are right, they have every right under the law to press charges. That doesn't always mean its the best course of action.

14 year olds can and many do have the ability to maneuver through a relationship on their own terms. If a 14 year old is going to be in relationships than this is certainly something that needs to be addressed to that 14 year old. No one should allow their teen to start dating without addressing that at whatever age.

My guess is that they chose to press charges because they asked her twice to stop dating their daughter. What do you do when you tell your kid to not to do something and someone else (an adult in this case) helps her break your rules? You use what is available.

If I asked you to stop dating my kid twice and you wouldn't back off but rather decided to actively pursue my child, I would press charges too. I can only ground my kid. I can't do anything to yours.

How did she help her? How do they know that she helped her run away? They went in her room and she was gone. Maybe she just showed up on the girl's door step. How do we know she actively pursued Kate and not the other way around?

People who are found to be too intoxicated to give consent are not "forcibly raped", yet are still victims. And their rapists are still tried and convicted.

And as for her ruining more lives, I'm pretty sure she's not going to have a very active social life for a long, long time.

IMHO, that is a completely different thing. This girl, as far as we know, was in complete control of her mind and body.

Did they say she wouldn't return to her normal life? They let her go this long. Obviously she was able to see Kate regularly, even though they asked her not to. How do we know that she doesn't basically do what she wants?

Regardless of how anyone sides with this situation, it's a great lesson for 18 year olds, (boys and girls), out there. They need to be aware of this law, and know what the potential consequences can be if they are convicted. 18 year olds should NOT be having relations with minors....period. Whether it's a boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl. That's the law.

The law is set up to protect minors. 18 is the age where you can legally live on your own, hold down a job, and drive. So the law chose this age to also have the choice to consent to "relations". Minors are very vulnerable, and they may accidentally get caught up in something they have no experience with. An 18 year old could take advantage of that.

How weird there's a double standard for girls in this situation. If it had been an 18 year old boy, having relations w/14 year old girl, no one would give this a second thought. Everyone would say, "Put him in jail."

But for some reason because she had relations 14 yo girl, people are actually feeling sorry for her? Wonder if the same would hold true if she had relations w/ a 14 year old boy, (instead of a girl). Hummm....

This is NOT about sexual orientation. It's about age. The parents of the 14 year old could have chosen to press charges just for the heck of it, or just out of spite. But regardless, they are justified in their choice. The law was broken, and they have a right to seek justice. (Their 14 year old "consenting" to relations won't hold up in court, because in the eyes of the law, the 14 year old doesn't have the legal right to make that choice.) But again, that's the law working in favor of the minors. Which is why adults 18 and older, need to be aware.

You are very right, its not about sexual orientation and it should be a good lesson to those 18 and over.

Personally, I don't think it matter whether she was a girl with a girl or a boy with a girl; my opinion is the same. Once they reach that age, they have to be very careful. Now the day before. . . not so much. (not being snarky at you just find that particular aspect ridiculous)

It wasn't very long ago that in this state, the age of consent was 14 and before that it was 12; now its 16 as it is in many states. A 16 year old is still a minor. Why is 16 the magic age? I find it silly that the age of consent is about the age that most teens are allowed to date. So they can start dating and consenting to sex all at the same time! I mean, it just seems like the lawmakers are saying "well, if they start dating, they are going to have sex so lets make it legal at this age".

 

[luvsJack]

Nothing positive. Nothing positive comes when it happens to other young people either, but parents have the right to press charges if they feel that their child has been violated. These parents feel this way. I don't know the entire story, and I bet we never will, but whatever the outcome, this is sad.



I think that if you disapproved of the relationship, and your DD persisted and the 18 YO persisted even though you said to stop, and then the 18 YO helped your 14 YO child run away, teh conversation would be different. It seems that was the final straw for these parents. I will say that if an adult (and 18 is an adult) helped my DD run away, all of my good nature would disappear. Not sure what I would do, but I think I know what my DH would do, and it would not be pretty.

Well, that may be true, but my first and foremost action would be to find out WHY dd ran away and fix THAT problem with her.

And as for disapproving, well dh and I have made a pact that unless there are drugs, alcohol or abuse involved we won't disapprove of a relationship. Meaning every boy that comes around will be given a chance--that doesn't mean she will leave the house with the boy, but he can hang around the house with us at home. Disapproving of a relationship is the number one way to send your teen running to them.

 

[LisaR]

LuvsJack,
You seem to have the assumption that the 14 y/o's parents were not at all involved and the only thing they did was press charges to try and "solve" this problem. Do you have any proof of that? You make it sound like they never talked to their daughter about dating, grounded her, yelled at her, pleaded with her, tried to sit down with the other girl and her parents, etc. We have no clue what went on behind closed doors. We don't know a single thing about the 14 y/o. You've painted her as a rebellious teen. Again, there isn't any proof of that. Is she a bright honor's student type kid involved in many activities with a lot of friends like Kate appears to be? Or is she a kid with some disabilities who doesn't always make the best choices and isn't mature? Or maybe she is somewhere in between. You seem to be making a great deal of assumptions on how this went down for the parents of the 14 y/o. They might be total scum, but until I read something that proves that (and not something out of the mouth of Kate's mom) I will reserve judgement about them for the moment.

 

[luvsJack]

LuvsJack,
You seem to have the assumption that the 14 y/o's parents were not at all involved and the only thing they did was press charges to try and "solve" this problem. Do you have any proof of that? You make it sound like they never talked to their daughter about dating, grounded her, yelled at her, pleaded with her, tried to sit down with the other girl and her parents, etc. We have no clue what went on behind closed doors. We don't know a single thing about the 14 y/o. You've painted her as a rebellious teen. Again, there isn't any proof of that. Is she a bright honor's student type kid involved in many activities with a lot of friends like Kate appears to be? Or is she a kid with some disabilities who doesn't always make the best choices and isn't mature? Or maybe she is somewhere in between. You seem to be making a great deal of assumptions on how this went down for the parents of the 14 y/o. They might be total scum, but until I read something that proves that (and not something out of the mouth of Kate's mom) I will reserve judgement about them for the moment.

She ran away from home--that usually is a red flag to a problem.

She may be any of the things you say and she may be the opposite.

I don't mean to sound as though I know anything about her, good or bad. I am just meaning to throw it out there to show that she may not be the victim that some are acting like she is simply because of her age.

 

[Carriemel]

If this was a senior boy and sophmore girl, there would be no issue whatsoever. The fact that the older girl is being dragged through the dirt for having a high school romance with an underclassman of the same sex, and being treated like a sexual predator totally demeans true sexual abuse is!

Like palmbeachmom, I'm familiar with the story...and wanted to add something to think about, which is why I quoted her.

When I was 14, I *was* a sophomore in HS...ALL of the kids were older than me (I graduated while I was still 16). If I would have dated a senior when I was a sophomore, most of the seniors were 18. They would have been technically 4 years older than me.

So by this being a 4 year age difference thing, man, I would have had a lot of trouble dating *anyone* in HS.

 

[crayon3448]

They just posted an article about this on cnn, with interviews from the 14 year old's parents, who say that they warned the 18 year old to stop.

She also rejected the plea deal.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/24/justice/florida-teen-sex-case/index.html?hpt=hp_t1