Free Kate

[surfgirl]

So by this being a 4 year age difference thing, man, I would have had a lot of trouble dating *anyone* in HS.

"Dating" isn't the problem. Having sexual relations is. It wouldn't have been against the law to "date" in your example, but "consenting" may have been.

 

[moon]

I


How did she help her? How do they know that she helped her run away?

from the article:

Reported missing, and found safe, the Smiths found out she was with Kate, who picked her up even though she had been told to stay away.They went in her room and she was gone. ".

 

[LuvinLucifer]

Regardless of how anyone sides with this situation, it's a great lesson for 18 year olds, (boys and girls), out there. They need to be aware of this law, and know what the potential consequences can be if they are convicted. 18 year olds should NOT be having relations with minors....period. Whether it's a boy/girl, boy/boy, or girl/girl. That's the law.
.

Actually, in most states the age of consent is 16. In my state, the only exception to this is if it involves an authority figure like a teacher or counselor. In Europe the age of consent ranges from 14 to 16. This reflects more who literally can consent over who may consent based on some line in the sand.

 

[robinb]

I just read the highly edited Case Report (http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/05/24/indian.river.county.report.summary.pdf) and I'm a little confused. I thought that the parents told the Kate to stay away from their daughter, but it seemed like they found out about the relationship on Feb 7th when the coach, employees and other students told them at a basketball game. They questioned their daughter and then filed charges the next day.

 

[moon]

I just read the highly edited Case Report (http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2013/images/05/24/indian.river.county.report.summary.pdf) and I'm a little confused. I thought that the parents told the Kate to stay away from their daughter, but it seemed like they found out about the relationship on Feb 7th when the coach, employees and other students told them at a basketball game. They questioned their daughter and then filed charges the next day.

Funny, because the arrest affidavit says that Kate picked up the kid when she ran away on Jan 4th.

I won't link to it due to the graphic language and nature, but it can be easily found

 

[robinb]

Funny, because the arrest affidavit says that Kate picked up the kid when she ran away on Jan 4th.

I won't link to it due to the graphic language and nature, but it can be easily found

I think that was in my link too, but I found the affidavit too. It said that the officer learned from the girl that she ran away with Kate but it's not clear if her family knew of the relationship then.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

Actually, in most states the age of consent is 16. In my state, the only exception to this is if it involves an authority figure like a teacher or counselor. In Europe the age of consent ranges from 14 to 16. This reflects more who literally can consent over who may consent based on some line in the sand.

Just to be clear, are you saying that a 14 year old should be able to consent to having sex?

 

[bunkkinsmom]

And I think the POV some of us are coming from is that the law is flawed on this issue, that it criminalizes normal behaviour, that the punishment does not in any way fit the crime, and that it is applied unevenly based on the demands of parents acting from their own biases.

If a parent thinks 14 is too young for dating or too young for sex that's an issue to address as a parent. Teach your values, set and impose rules, provide supervision. Don't demand that the criminal justice system step in where parental authority has fallen short.

At some point there is an age of adulthood, an age where one is considered an adult. For now, that line is 18. In my opinion, it is not "normal behavior" for an 18 year old to have a sexual relationship with a 14 year old. Period. I also fail to see how it is being applied unevenly? As a parent, I absolutely teach my values, set and impose my rules, and provide supervision. I also protect my children from anyone looking to take advantage of them or anyone demonstrating predatory behavior. And if someone commits a crime against my child, I will prosecute them to the fullest extent of the law. IMHO I would be negligent in my duties as a parent if I did anything less.

I think that I can see, in some degree, the argument of the 18 year old "line in the sand", however, there has to be a line somewhere. And from where I'm sitting, in no way are 18 year olds and 14 year olds peers. And in no way does a 14 year old have the ability to consent to sex.

Kate turned 18 in August. The two girls did not start dating until November. Kate was arrested in February. I do not know when the 14 y/o turned 14.

At 18, a person, gay or straight, should know that dating a 14 y/o has consequences. If we are to believe the story that was just posted from the parents of the 14 y/o, Kate had been warned multiple times that what she was doing was wrong. I don't buy Kate's parents story that she had no idea that dating someone so young was illegal and they didn't know either.

You have got to be delusional to think that this girl had no idea what she was doing was wrong.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Just because this happens doesn't make it any less gross and it certainly isn't normal in my book.

The idea that a 16 year old and a 20 year old getting married is gross is rather new, in the scheme of things.

 

[LuvinLucifer]

Just to be clear, are you saying that a 14 year old should be able to consent to having sex?

I don't think they SHOULD be capable. I think they are capable, in the way that an eight year old or a passed out person isn't. That's just a biological reality. I'm not saying that it isn't ill advised, just that it's nothing similar to rape or pedophilia and shouldn't be treated as such. I wouldn't permit my 14 year old to have sex with anyone, but if they did I think it should be dealt with disciplinarily not criminally. That is how it goes in most of the industrialized world, and public safety and poor teen sexual health are hardly more rampant in most of those countries. The way to prevent risky sexual behavior is by better parental involvement and access to factual information, not by treating such behavior as horrific crimes with completely different contributing factors.

 

[iheartdisney]

I don't think they SHOULD be capable. I think they are capable, in the way that an eight year old or a passed out person isn't. That's just a biological reality. I'm not saying that it isn't ill advised, just that it's nothing similar to rape or pedophilia and shouldn't be treated as such. I wouldn't permit my 14 year old to have sex with anyone, but if they did I think it should be dealt with disciplinarily not criminally. That is how it goes in most of the industrialized world, and public safety and poor teen sexual health are hardly more rampant in most of those countries. The way to prevent risky sexual behavior is by better parental involvement and access to factual information, not by treating such behavior as horrific crimes with completely different contributing factors.

I'm sorry, but I have to respectfully disagree with you. At 14 a girl is still closer to childhood than adulthood.
Not to get too far in the TMI category, but at 14 not everything has grown in yet.
The prefrontal cortex is still EXTREMELY immature. It usually isn't finished developing until age 25.

The prefrontal cortex is one of the last regions of the brain to reach maturation. This delay may help to explain why some adolescents act the way they do. The so-called “executive functions” of the human prefrontal cortex include:

Focusing attention
Organizing thoughts and problem solving
Foreseeing and weighing possible consequences of behavior
Considering the future and making predictions
Forming strategies and planning
Ability to balance short-term rewards with long term goals
Shifting/adjusting behavior when situations change
Impulse control and delaying gratification
Modulation of intense emotions
Inhibiting inappropriate behavior and initiating appropriate behavior
Simultaneously considering multiple streams of information when faced with complex and challenging information

so you see why I think a 14 year old is not prepared to deal with a sexual relationship simply by virtue of being a 14 year old. No matter how many pamphlets a parent reads to them.

 

[LuvinLucifer]

so you see why I think a 14 year old is not prepared to deal with a sexual relationship simply by virtue of being a 14 year old. No matter how many pamphlets a parent reads to them.

No one is arguing that a 14 year old is mature enough to deal with a sexual relationship. Most teens aren't regardless of how old their partner is. What they capable of is saying yes or no, whether or not they have the best judgment in doing is another matter. I had opportunities to have sex with older guys at 14. If I had said yes I might've been an idiot, but not a victim. Victims of rape and molestation have no choice in the matter. That's why conflating the issues is so offensive and illogical. Treating someone who has sex with their willing teenage girlfriend the same as someone mentally ill enough to prey upon a child or violent enough to force himself on a woman in such a degrading manner doesn't make us safer and is a waste of resources.

 

[PaulaSB12]

Just to be clear, are you saying that a 14 year old should be able to consent to having sex?

In Spain it's 13. In several countries the age of consent is 14.

 

[moon]

In Spain it's 13. In several countries the age of consent is 14.

Not for long. A law was just approved to raise the age of consent in Spain from 13 to proably 16 (they haven't decided on that yet).

 

[OceanAnnie]

Here is an interview with the parents of the underage girl. The comments are interesting.

http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7597.shtml

 

[java]

Here is an interview with the parents of the underage girl. The comments are interesting.

http://cbs12.com/news/top-stories/stories/vid_7597.shtml

It's a bit confusing when they say Kate was warned. If you read it they seem to be implying someone else, another school parent told her it was wrong not the parents of the young girl.

I have a now 19 year old son. You better believe he knew he had to be careful when he turned 18. I don't know if the parents would have acted the same way if it was a heterosexual relationship. My then 18 year old had no interest in 14 year olds. But his friends had interest in my 14 year old daughter. Thankfully, nobody acted on it though.

 

[OceanAnnie]

If the 14 year old were a child of mine, I would NOT want my child in a sexual relationship of any kind. If the 18 year old were a child of mine, I would NOT want my child in a relationship with a 14 year old. The laws are clear. I would make sure my 18 year old knew it. That is prudent parenting.

I wouldn't make it a national case. The parents of the 18 year old say conviction could ruin her life. What is all of this national attention doing?

I don't think there should be an exception made to the law because of orientation. Equal rights does not equate to special rights. There are no separate laws for hetero or otherwise. There is one law and it should be applied equally.

IMO, a lot of what is focused on in this case is extraneous.

 

[bunkkinsmom]

No one is arguing that a 14 year old is mature enough to deal with a sexual relationship. Most teens aren't regardless of how old their partner is. What they capable of is saying yes or no, whether or not they have the best judgment in doing is another matter. I had opportunities to have sex with older guys at 14. If I had said yes I might've been an idiot, but not a victim. Victims of rape and molestation have no choice in the matter. That's why conflating the issues is so offensive and illogical. Treating someone who has sex with their willing teenage girlfriend the same as someone mentally ill enough to prey upon a child or violent enough to force himself on a woman in such a degrading manner doesn't make us safer and is a waste of resources.

I get that they can physically say yes or no. But my point is that are they mature enough to fully understand the consequences of that relationship. The first two sentences of your post seem to lean your answer towards no. My ten year old knows what sex is, and knows what can happen. Does that mean she can consent? If your problem is with the consequences being too severe, then lets address that. I might even agree at some level.

 

[skatalite]

I get that they can physically say yes or no. But my point is that are they mature enough to fully understand the consequences of that relationship. The first two sentences of your post seem to lean your answer towards no. My ten year old knows what sex is, and knows what can happen. Does that mean she can consent? If your problem is with the consequences being too severe, then lets address that. I might even agree at some level.

Looking at the way many adults treat sex, I'd say they fall in line with your bolded statement.

Using the age of consent as a way to measure adulthood is pretty odd. They're attempting to measure maturity by birthdays. Birthdays!

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

Originally Posted by LuvinLucifer View Post
No one is arguing that a 14 year old is mature enough to deal with a sexual relationship. Most teens aren't regardless of how old their partner is. What they capable of is saying yes or no, whether or not they have the best judgment in doing is another matter. I had opportunities to have sex with older guys at 14. If I had said yes I might've been an idiot, but not a victim. Victims of rape and molestation have no choice in the matter. That's why conflating the issues is so offensive and illogical. Treating someone who has sex with their willing teenage girlfriend the same as someone mentally ill enough to prey upon a child or violent enough to force himself on a woman in such a degrading manner doesn't make us safer and is a waste of resources.

They aren't being treated the same. She's charged under different statutes which carry different penalties than someone that just goes out and rapes people. She's been offered a plea bargain that carries no prison time that wouldn't be offered to someone that just goes out and rapes people. And under Romeo and Juliet laws, she'll be able to be off the sex offender registry quite unlike those that just go out and rape people. The differences are easy to spot. Yet you refuse to spot them. There's no conflating the two, except on your part.