FP+... who hates it

[Alfalfa]

The legacy and current versions of Fast Pass are virtual queueing systems with a few inefficiencis that Disney has thrown in for their own reasons......

Legacy was a virtual queuing system. FP+ is a capacity management system.

 

[JimmyV]

When really, it was put in place alongside some of the most significant changes in WDW history.

Google "The Disney Decade". Puts what they have done lately to SHAME.

Eisner=Expansion of WDW
Iger=Contraction of your wallet.
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http://www.wdwmagic.com/walt-disney-world-history.htm

The Disney Decade

It was not until the decade of the '90s, however, that Disney growth became truly phenomenal. In January 1990, Disney Chairman Michael D. Eisner unveiled an ambitious ten-year building plan. He called it The Disney Decade. By mid-decade attendance passed 500 million guests. Investment increased to five times its 1980 total.

Among major accomplishments of The Disney Decade: • Disney’s Animal Kingdom -- a whole new species of theme park with 13 animal-themed adventures opened in 1998. A greatly expanded Asia section opened in 1999.

• In other parks, '90s attractions included: at Epcot - Innoventions, “Honey, I Shrunk the Audience,” high-speed Test Track and the highly creative Journey Into Your Imagination; at Magic Kingdom - Splash Mountain, “Legend of the Lion King,” The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Buzz Lightyear’s Space Ranger Spin and New Tomorrowland; at Disney-MGM Studios - Star Tours, “Voyage of the Little Mermaid,” “Jim Henson’s Muppet*Vision 3-D,” “Disney’s Doug Live!”, “Bear in the Big Blue House,” “Sounds Dangerous Starring Drew Carey,” “Fantasmic!”, Sunset Boulevard with The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror™ and Rock 'n' Roller Coaster Starring Aerosmith.

Also completed in the 1990s:

• Ten outstanding resorts in a variety of themes and price ranges plus two new golf courses.

• Disney Vacation Club in three locationswith exceptional opportunities for owning a piece of the magic.

• One additional water adventure park, Blizzard Beach.

• Two miniature golf courses, Fantasia and Winter Summerland.

• Major nighttime entertainment, dining and shopping in three areas of the new Downtown Disney, including DisneyQuest and Cirque du Soleil®.

• Disney’s Wide World of Sports, a complex of playing fields, baseball stadium and fieldhouse.

• Disney Institute, a whole new kind of enrichment vacation for individuals and groups.

• The City of Celebration with innovation in homes, business environment and education.

• Disney Cruise Line, with two ships, the Disney Magic and the Disney Wonder, sailing from Port Canaveral, Fla.

**************************************************************

Granted, all of this was over the span of a decade. But count back 10 years from today and see it you can compile a list of additions anything like this. The most "significant changes" over the past 10 years have been subtractions, not additions. At least it sure seems that way at times.

 

[Cormoran]

Legacy was a virtual queuing system. FP+ is a capacity management system.

On the other hand, Universal builds new attractions as their capacity management system! IMO, Universal's is a lot better!

 

[mesaboy2]

So in response to increased attendance Universal is reducing both the amount of rides that offer express pass and the amount of express passes they issue, and building more attractions.

Whereas, in response to increased attendance Disney has closed more attractions, added FP+ to rides that never required it, and offered FP+ to all attendees.

I know that the theme parks are different and shouldn't be compared, but IMO Universal seems to be focusing on the guest experience and Disney seems to be focused on the guest as a cash cow.

Strictly speaking, no--they are remaining constant. In terms of percentages, however, yes since the number of attractions is growing and the number of onsite guests with access to EPs is constant.

 

[NavyDad]

I don't see why Universal would need to change a thing. They continually add new high demand attractions while the number of Express Passes available stays the same. It's true that the HP rides aren't included but I can see that more due to overwhelming demand that would cause the standby lines to be ridiculous if people had unlimited express access.

They are already changing things. They are in a huge growth period right now. You are exactly right about HP and that is my point. The EP system does not work well with high demand attractions. HP is the first time that UO has ever seen demand that is similar to WDW.

Their new high demand attractions do not work with EP. Their new hotels do not offer the same EP benefits becasuse as they expand their room capacity they can't continue to sustain EP. I could look it up but I imagine their room capacity will still be a fraction of WDW even after the new hotel is built. If they ever came close to WDW in that regard EP would become less and less sustainable....

 

[Cormoran]

Strictly speaking, no--they are remaining constant. In terms of percentages, however, yes since the number of attractions is growing and the number of onsite guests with access to EPs is constant.

OKey dokey.

 

[NavyDad]

Legacy was a virtual queuing system. FP+ is a capacity management system.

Legacy was a hybrid where you had to physically queue prior to virtually queue. Plus has a much more virtual element in it but I agree that they have (smartly) added crowd flow and capacity management elements to it.

 

[NavyDad]

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. I think some of us just think that maximizing guest satisfaction is the best long-term way to accomplish that. It seems to me like that's the approach Disney used to take. It feels to me that lately they have been looking for short cuts around that piece of it.

YMMV.

That is a valid point but the current approach of both parks should not be viewed as a "long term" thing especially in the case of UO. Universal is currently growing at a record pace. As a business when you are growing generally you will invest in things that will bring in the largest amounts of new customers you can bring in. The life cycle of almost all businesses will also include phases with much smaller growth where they try to hold on to their market share and maximize revenue per customer (pluses and add-on's and such). I would suspect UO is about 15 years behind WDW in their business lifecycle. It will be interesting to see what their "long-term" approach will be...

In other words it is extremely reasonable to conclude that during their short term growth period there are some major advantages that guests can experience at UO over WDW. IMO it is not reasonable to conclude that UO will continue to operate in the same manner as their business continues to mature. In fact you already see these changes as some of their methods of operating have already become unsustainable...

(FTR - I am not one of those WDW or Universal people. I love both of them and probably will visit UO more often as my kids get older - and then probably return to WDW after I retire and have grandkids. I just think when comparing the two it is important to have a realistic perspective of the different circumstances that surround each park)

 

[Shaden]

Depressed. Sigh. We love it there! (love Disneyland too)

I think you're swayed by the few ppl out here who are very vocally against FP+. It is still Disney World, it is still amazing, and we have in our experience gotten on just as much as before. You ask why to love FP+? Because we do so with less effort and less feeling of always having to be going to get the next FP ticket. More relaxing, better overall experience, same number of rides. I did not feel lines were longer. Reports have been coming out left and right in the last 2 weeks that lines there have been great this week. 20 min waits. So a lot of what you get here is information gotten by a few presented as if it will be the experience that YOU will get. And some of those who don't like FP+ haven't even tried it yet, but are just assuming lines are worse. Lines were, and now are, still determined by the crowd, and FP+ can help you a lot w that. Just like before, having a good plan is your best way to avoid the crowds.

Oooooh MY FAVORITE !!!!! It's just a few vocal people that don't like fp+ ... everyone else JUST LOVE IT.

Blah blah blah ... read the forums, go to articles people link about fp+ and read the comments, watch the podcast where they talk about the feedback they are getting from their travel agency guests, look at all but the most ardent disney or FP+ supporters even they see that for other people's touring styles or times of year this isn't a good chance.

There is a huge portion of guests that don't like fp+ not some magical vocal minority.

 

[GeorgiaHoo]

I hated the IDEA of FP+ when it was first announced but didn't find the actuality of it to be as bad as I thought last year when we visited. I still PREFER the old system, especially after using it in February when we visited Disneyland. Certainly allows for more spontaneity.

 

[Ambear]

Oooooh MY FAVORITE !!!!! It's just a few vocal people that don't like fp+ ... everyone else JUST LOVE IT.

Blah blah blah ... read the forums, go to articles people link about fp+ and read the comments, watch the podcast where they talk about the feedback they are getting from their travel agency guests, look at all but the most ardent disney or FP+ supporters even they see that for other people's touring styles or times of year this isn't a good chance.

There is a huge portion of guests that don't like fp+ not some magical vocal minority.

Lol. You need actual, official numbers to prove what the minority vs majority opinion is. No one can know this. Probably the better thing to do is just acknowledge that no one's opinion is right or wrong, or more valid or less valid than another's, even if it were the majority or minority.

 

[ThistleMae]

I know I'm going to kick myself for biting on this but define abuse.

Sorry, I just had to laugh at this one. Thanks for the chuckle!

 

[NavyDad]

Oooooh MY FAVORITE !!!!! It's just a few vocal people that don't like fp+ ... everyone else JUST LOVE IT.

Blah blah blah ... read the forums, go to articles people link about fp+ and read the comments, watch the podcast where they talk about the feedback they are getting from their travel agency guests, look at all but the most ardent disney or FP+ supporters even they see that for other people's touring styles or times of year this isn't a good chance.

There is a huge portion of guests that don't like fp+ not some magical vocal minority.

Have you ever done any research concerning the methodology of polling?

LOL - message boards and reader comments are the last place you want to go....

Look up "self-selction bias". See how it relates to marketing and market research.

LOL

 

[ThistleMae]

I just want to thank all of you for the entertainment! Everyone has an opinion about something. Isn't life great! I appreciate hearing from everyone, whether something is liked or not. I just love spending time talking to people who adore Disney....even if they are aggravated with some of the changes. Party on Disney Lovers wherever you are!

 

[Cormoran]

I just want to thank all of you for the entertainment! Everyone has an opinion about something. Isn't life great! I appreciate hearing from everyone, whether something is liked or not. I just love spending time talking to people who adore Disney....even if they are aggravated with some of the changes. Party on Disney Lovers wherever you are!

Great post

 

[Shaden]

Have you ever done any research concerning the methodology of polling?

LOL - message boards and reader comments are the last place you want to go....

Look up "self-selction bias". See how it relates to marketing and market research.

LOL

I couldn't agree more, I just can't tell you how many times I have heard some iteration of "Its only a vocal minority of people on the boards that don't like FP+, everyone else loves it" when this is clearly not the case.

We don't have any numbers, obviously, if was wealthy though I would honestly pay the money for a survey just to find out this question, of course, I am not, and instead that money will go to WDW

 

[Shaden]

IMO this concept would just add complication to the system and likely add inefficiencies back into the system as well. The more inefficiency there is in a system the more chances that people can find ways to exploit inefficiencies (throw-away rooms and such).

I saw that another poster mentioned "abuse" of the old system. That is probably a harsh word so I would say people were previously able to exploit inefficiencies in the old system. People who planned ahead or just had a high knowledge level of WDW were able to take great advantage of that system (most of us included). Guests who had zero or little knowledge of the system were not using the inefficiencies of the system to their advantage. Their lack of knowledge actually benefited other guests...

I will say that Disney has intentionally placed some ineefficiencies in the new system:
1. 60/30 booking windows for on site vs. off site (incentive to stay in their hotels)
2. Physical queue location required to virtually queue for FP4 and up - this one still baffles me but I'm sure there is a reason behind it...

As per the Bolded above, LT and I speculated on this quite a bit, and I think you are right, there is a reason, its a capacity reason.

Very simply if people are waiting at, or walking to and from a Kiosk, they can't spend that time in a SB line or riding something. Lets look at any given day and make up some numbers to illustrate the point

40 000 guests in MK, each for 6 hours, each averaging 2 rides per hour 1/30 mins.

that's 240 000 man hours in the park, or 480 000 man 1/2 hours in the park.


you need 480 000 ride Capacity.

Now, just throw in a 10 minute wait, and just one for each of those folks

That reduces total "man hours" riding/walking to rides etc, by 6660.

Means a total of 13 300 Fewer Rides you have to offer. That's more than the capacity of some rides in an entire day I believe.

And yes, this is indeed a massive simplification ... but the point itself stands.

 

[NavyDad]

I couldn't agree more, I just can't tell you how many times I have heard some iteration of "Its only a vocal minority of people on the boards that don't like FP+, everyone else loves it" when this is clearly not the case.

We don't have any numbers, obviously, if was wealthy though I would honestly pay the money for a survey just to find out this question, of course, I am not, and instead that money will go to WDW

Haha - I couldn't tell if you were being serious or sarcastic (still not sure LOL) about the message boards and reader comments but it did give me a chuckle

I would also be very interested to see the numbers. I am sure Disney does thier own market research polls but at the same time I am sure they are aimed at finding answers to the questions related to making more money. They would ask questions like:

1. Did you find that your magic bands and info package you received before your trip was helpful in planning and reserving experiences you knew your family would enjoy?

2. Did your Magic Bands make it more convenient to make purchases in the parks without the hastle of carrying a wallet?

3. Is there any other experiences your family would have like to reserve prior to your trip that you did not previously know about?

Our questions would consist of:

1. Do you agree that Legacy was so much better than FP+

2. Do you agree that Disney should have spent their Billions of dollars building new attractions instead of on ways to track you and get you to spend more money?

 

[JimmyV]

Or...Some here would ask:

Would you describe your experience with FP+ as:

A pretty nice innovation

Great

OMG! What took them so long!

 

[JimmyV]

Double Post