FP+ "Problems" - I Just Don't Get It

[mom2rtk]

Or maybe not, if they left the FP/standby ratios the same.

It would just mean longer FP lines. And maybe Disney figures people won't mind this as much at Christmas, because everyone knows what a busy time this is, and if people are at least getting A&E and 7 Dwarves FP's at decent times, then they won't mind the longer wait.

If they are putting more people into the FP line, all of whom will be prioritized over the standby people, I still contend the standby line will move slower.

And I don't think it's fair to the people who got up at midnight to schedule their fastpasses to suddenly add a lot more fastpass slots making it a "not quite as slow pass".

 

[wisblue]

I'm back to my theory that they have not been running some of these attractions (even the really popular ones) at full capacity during what they expect to be lower crowd times.

I have stayed away from this thread, but I want to comment on this because I don't see how the availability of more FPs for 7DMT would suggest this unless they haven't been intentionally operating the mine train at less than full capacity, and that seems highly unlikely for a very popular new ride.

A ride like POC or IASW could be operated at less than full capacity just by putting fewer boats out on the course. But it seems like that would be harder to do for a ride like the mine train that has a small number of vehicles unless they tell the CMs to take their time loading guests, and I have a hard time believing they would do that.

Here's another theory, which I concede is purely speculation. I said on the thread about the additional FPs for 7DMT that I think it is simply an increase in the amount of capacity at that ride being allocated to FP. I seem to recall when the ride first opened that it had a number of issues with breakdowns. Maybe because of that, they intentionally kept the number of FPs down by 10 or 20% or so to avoid backups if the ride did break down and to allow more people to ride standby. Maybe now they are seeing fewer breakdowns and are more comfortable issuing more FPs without creating a dramatically longer standby line. Or, maybe with a few months of operation under their belts they have a better idea what the real capacity of the ride is.

 

[Disneylover99]

And I don't think it's fair to the people who got up at midnight to schedule their fastpasses to suddenly add a lot more fastpass slots making it a "not quite as slow pass".

I agree. And I don't think it's right if that's the plan.

 

[Suvadoo]

I could spend an hour writing a book about all that is wrong what you've written above but I wont. I will say that your definition and mine of "minor inconvenience" are likely very different. My professional career is spent trouble shooting and dealing with problems anywhere from 60 to 100 hours each and every week. When I go on holidays I do so to not deal with stress, planning, correcting and fixing. If gawd forbid I want to change a dinner reservation which I've made months in advance I don't want to have to spend the next 6 days stalking MDE in order to change a ride or parade and yes that's what we had to do. I don't want an entire days worth of fp's to go missing so that I have to spend an hour at guest relations for them to fix there mistake. I don't want my holiday to be so scheduled that it isn't fun anymore, and I sure as heck don't wish to wait in lines that were non existent before fp+ came along. And I have only listed SOME of the problems we had/found with fp+. We just got back a couple of weeks ago. Our holiday wasn't "ruined" by fp+ but it was so different from previous Disney visits that we are not in any hurry to go back. We had May and Nov planned for Disney visits. Now in May we're still doing Orlando but only Universal prior to 2 weeks on the Panhandle, and for November as of last night we've decided to skip the week in Orlando and go straight to Aruba for 3 weeks.
Simply put, although some of these problems were perception, it didn't work well for us and if dh and I are paying for our holiday no one else is going to tell us what is and isn't a "minor inconvenience" and what is and isn't a deal breaker.
Oh, and on your other point about "user failure", I just had a new program developed for my business that my assistant was having trouble adapting to. I called my IT company and they're coming in to either "make her comfortable or change the program". Had they told me this was user failure I'd be looking for a new IT company. It isn't the "user" that has to adapt but rather the program.

Thank you Luckybee, this post is very articulate and it reflects how I feel about FP+.

 

[g-dad66]

Does FP+ availability have anything to do with when most planners will go to the parks? I've noticed that I have had a relatively easy time scheduling my ADRs and FP+ (I got everything I wanted) and I'm going the week after Christmas (considered to be THE busiest time of the year). Is this because most of the planners don't go during this time? And during the dates that they do, most of the other planners are more likely to go and therefore making it harder to get ADRs and FP+?

WDW FP+ works in mysterious ways.

I've read many reports in the last week of those going between Christmas and New Years (busiest week of the year) who had no trouble getting everything they wanted, including the hard-to-get FP+s.

But a bunch of us going in November couldn't get Mine Train or Anna/Elsa at 60 days out at all. And then lo and behold, a pixie-dust-day today when tons of Mine Train FP+s were suddenly dumped in the system for the first three weeks of November.

So WDW continues to experiment with the system, and we continue to be the guinea pigs.

 

[mom2rtk]

So WDW continues to experiment with the system, and we continue to be the guinea pigs.

...... while paying for the privilege.

 

[Josh Hendy]

...

Here's another theory, which I concede is purely speculation. I said on the thread about the additional FPs for 7DMT that I think it is simply an increase in the amount of capacity at that ride being allocated to FP. I seem to recall when the ride first opened that it had a number of issues with breakdowns. Maybe because of that, they intentionally kept the number of FPs down by 10 or 20% or so to avoid backups if the ride did break down and to allow more people to ride standby. Maybe now they are seeing fewer breakdowns and are more comfortable issuing more FPs without creating a dramatically longer standby line. Or, maybe with a few months of operation under their belts they have a better idea what the real capacity of the ride is.

Or, maybe they are more comfortable with creating a dramatically longer standby line. While at the same time turning FastPass into (as a PP said) "NotQuiteAsSlowPass".

Perhaps they were feeling the heat of complaints about not being able to book FP's for the busy season, so they decided to make people happy now, knowing full well that they're only deferring the problems.

It is a very, very common (although desperate) tactic for companies to do ANYTHING to get sales booked for the current or next fiscal quarter and to say, essentially, "to H-E-double-hockey-sticks with the consequences" in the quarters following that. It's called stuffing the channel.

I'm not saying Disney is doing this, but I can't tell you how *incredibly* common it is for companies to do it. It frequently happens when companies see a flattening or downtown of revenues or profits in the near- to mid-future. The way that stock analysts and big brokerage firms work, they "kill" (financially speaking) companies which "fail to meet expectations". The stock price is driven down, top managers' stock options become worthless, the major, long-term shareholders become really peeved and start looking to replace the top management because they have to mark down the value of their investments, and so on. Companies who stuff the channel only do so because they convince themselves, "don't worry though the quarter AFTER this one will be a blow-out quarter and we'll be back on track for the End-of-year results". But it doesn't always work that way! (which is what golden parachutes are for)

This is just a lot of speculation, hot air really, but watch what happens in a couple of months when people are trying to use the "extra" FP's ... if the FP queue is as slow as standby, or if the standby queue is intolerable or abolished altogether and a lot of complaints spill over on the DIS boards then you can't help thinking ...

 

[Luckybee]

Thank you Luckybee, this post is very articulate and it reflects how I feel about FP+.

You're very welcome

 

[wisblue]

Or, maybe they are more comfortable with creating a dramatically longer standby line. While at the same time turning FastPass into (as a PP said) "NotQuiteAsSlowPass".

Perhaps they were feeling the heat of complaints about not being able to book FP's for the busy season, so they decided to make people happy now, knowing full well that they're only deferring the problems.

It is a very, very common (although desperate) tactic for companies to do ANYTHING to get sales booked for the current or next fiscal quarter and to say, essentially, "to H-E-double-hockey-sticks with the consequences" in the quarters following that. It's called stuffing the channel.

I'm not saying Disney is doing this, but I can't tell you how *incredibly* common it is for companies to do it. It frequently happens when companies see a flattening or downtown of revenues or profits in the near- to mid-future. The way that stock analysts and big brokerage firms work, they "kill" (financially speaking) companies which "fail to meet expectations". The stock price is driven down, top managers' stock options become worthless, the major, long-term shareholders become really peeved and start looking to replace the top management because they have to mark down the value of their investments, and so on. Companies who stuff the channel only do so because they convince themselves, "don't worry though the quarter AFTER this one will be a blow-out quarter and we'll be back on track for the End-of-year results". But it doesn't always work that way! (which is what golden parachutes are for)

This is just a lot of speculation, hot air really, but watch what happens in a couple of months when people are trying to use the "extra" FP's ... if the FP queue is as slow as standby, or if the standby queue is intolerable or abolished altogether and a lot of complaints spill over on the DIS boards then you can't help thinking ...

Yes, the speculation about Disney management being desperate to meet analysts' expectations is just that. The theme parks are just a part of the overall company and FP+ at WDW is just one small part of that part.

It's hard to see how issuing more FPs in mid November (not exactly the busy season) would affect revenues in the next quarter or two since most of the trips for this holiday season are already booked.

The one thing that I am surest of is that, whatever Disney does or doesn't do in the next few months, there will be a lot of complaints on the Dis boards.

 

[famy27]

Yes, the speculation about Disney management being desperate to meet analysts' expectations is just that. The theme parks are just a part of the overall company and FP+ at WDW is just one small part of that part.

It's hard to see how issuing more FPs in mid November (not exactly the busy season) would affect revenues in the next quarter or two since most of the trips for this holiday season are already booked.

The one thing that I am surest of is that, whatever Disney does or doesn't do in the next few months, there will be a lot of complaints on the Dis boards.

I think it's clear that they have upped FP availability for November (with the sudden SDMT onslaught) and for December, as evidenced by all of the people able to get prime FPs for Christmas week.

I agree that they are likely to get complaints with whatever route they choose. If people can't prebook the choice FPs (especially the onsiters more than 45 days out), Disney risks cancellations of trips as well as complaints. If they release too much FP capacity, the FP lines will be really long, which will also bring about many complaints.

They've dug a bit of a whole with the new system. And to their credit, I think they are trying to fill it with their wacky FP only and paper SB cards. But that hasn't worked either. At the end of the day, more capacity is the main way to solve the problem, but that is obviously some time into the future. I'm not sure what the answer is in the interim, but drastically reducing or removing the prebooking window and dropping to only one or two prebooked FPs would probably be my top ideas.

 

[Suvadoo]

Yes, the speculation about Disney management being desperate to meet analysts' expectations is just that. The theme parks are just a part of the overall company and FP+ at WDW is just one small part of that part.

It's hard to see how issuing more FPs in mid November (not exactly the busy season) would affect revenues in the next quarter or two since most of the trips for this holiday season are already booked.
The one thing that I am surest of is that, whatever Disney does or doesn't do in the next few months, there will be a lot of complaints on the Dis boards.

I am planning an April trip that's half Disney and half Universal. But if I see more complaints about the FP+ lines lengths and how poorly Disney is handling this situation in November and during the holidays, I can always go somewhere else for the Disney half. And if a lot of people do the same thing, bookings will drop. I think most people find out about what's happening at WDW through social media, so that's where what's written really matters.

 

[Burnedout]

Wow!

Even though I have had success getting the FP+ that I want, I would never dismiss someone else's difficulties as hyperbole or lies. The system is glitchy and that's pretty evident.

Yes.

 

[tim123]

So much hate for the FP+ system over the lack of availability of FP+ reservations. MM+ inception right through this morning you see the frequent complaint that there were no FP+ reservations available for this, that, the other thing, almost everything......even when people go online at midnight 60 days out. People decry the FP+ system for the abhorrent amount of time that must be spent to plan and secure elusive FP+ reservations. Other than the general 'I don't like that Disney makes me plan my vacation so much' complaint, these two 'problems' seem to be at the very heart of the anti-FP+ movement.

Now, I'm going to try and be delicate about this, and will probably fail miserably......but I don't get it. I really don't. Yes, user experiences vary, but how much can they really vary? Based on my experiences I have to ask myself.....what is the problem? Is there really one, or is the majority of the FP+ backlash coming from people who just aren't that capable of figuring out the (relatively simple) system, or people that seem to find a way of exaggerating a small problem into a big issue?

I'm compelled to ask this question because last night I secured some FP+ reservations without any problem whatsoever. Not only that, but I changed some times and swapped a few experiences. In and out in 30 minutes, a week's worth of FP+ reservations secured and tailored, everything we could have wanted available, got everything we desired.

Now, before you say 'sure, that could be...if you were making reservations for an off time', let me clarify. These were for the week between Christmas and New Year's, THE busiest time of the year at WDW. You might say 'ok, great for you, you got REALLY lucky'. But this is the third time I've had no problem securing anything and everything we wanted with the FP+ system. 'But you are making reservations for a small party' you might say! No, I've been equally successful for 2, 5, or 12 people. Last year we used FP+ between Christmas and New Year's. No problems, but the system was new, so maybe not a lot of people were using it? Then we had a trip in July, another very busy time at WDW, and got everything (including Mine Train and A&E), and I did so at 45 days out. Ok, I figured maybe I was lucky there? Then there was last night, where I secured FP+ reservations, sans problems, for an even busier time at WDW. Mine Train, got it. A&E, there if I wanted it.

So, I'm thinking luck has nothing to do with it, and the 'problems' are either exaggerated or fabricated. How else do you explain it? Discuss amongst yourselves.......

Easy now you are asking for trouble here!
On a side note I got an email for BOG FP invite. They have the wrong reservation …they have next years reservation…not the one I have 18 days from now.
To me this shows that there is much stupidity at IT and I can now see why so many here are unhappy and frustrated with this computer non sense over the paper tickets from before. Why should I have to call IT for a BOG fast pass. My time is valuable to. Are they going to pay me for this? And how about ALL the people who post here with reservations and Fps that dis appear …

Hours on the phone. Puts a damper on your magic. These cases are far too many. Yes most people will be fine..but there are way too many examples of glitches.


JUST CALLED: NO IT support for BOG website. Great huh? Here's an invite.. sorry you can't have a FP!

 

[Angel Ariel]

FWIW, you don't need an email invite to get a bog fp+. Go to beourguestlunch.Disney.go.com and type in your current reservation number when prompted. I got our fp+ for there before receiving the email at all.

 

[DisneyKidds]

Curious ... Why? To what end?

To get people talking, mostly. Sometimes you gotta shake the tree to get the fruit. As they say, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Just look at the last page and a half of discussion. Pure gold. Great points being made. I've followed a few, and I haven't seen many FP+ threads get into the business motives behind graduated/controlled release of FP+. People have given me many good points to consider. I apologize if any innocents were hurt in the making of this thread, and to anyone I offended.

 

[wisblue]

I am planning an April trip that's half Disney and half Universal. But if I see more complaints about the FP+ lines lengths and how poorly Disney is handling this situation in November and during the holidays, I can always go somewhere else for the Disney half. And if a lot of people do the same thing, bookings will drop. I think most people find out about what's happening at WDW through social media, so that's where what's written really matters.

OK, but I think you are overestimating (1) what percentage of guests closely follow what's going at Disney through social media and would even know what is going on with 7DMT FPs, (2) how many people would dramatically alter upcoming plans even if they knew about it, and (3) what impact that would have on the Disney company's overall financial reports.

If Disney executives are concerned that the company's earnings are going to fall short of analyst's expectations, issuing more FPs for 7DMT isn't going to affect that. It's impact would be a drop in the ocean compared to one of its major movie releases being a huge flop.

 

[Suvadoo]

OK, but I think you are overestimating (1) what percentage of guests closely follow what's going at Disney through social media and would even know what is going on with 7DMT FPs, (2) how many people would dramatically alter upcoming plans even if they knew about it, and (3) what impact that would have on the Disney company's overall financial reports.

If Disney executives are concerned that the company's earnings are going to fall short of analyst's expectations, issuing more FPs for 7DMT isn't going to affect that. It's impact would be a drop in the ocean compared to one of its major movie releases being a huge flop.

First of all, I'm not talking about Disney's overall financial reports. I'm also not speaking about 7DMT.
I'm talking about theme park attendance. I believe there are a lot of people who read reviews prior to planning a vacation. If they read about the FP+ system being difficult to navigate, the long lines despite having FP reservations, and an overall not so hot vacation, it may turn people away.

I realize November and December are booked. I'm talking about next year's vacations.

 

[tony67]

The issue for me is all about HAVING to plan....I just want a vacation...that I don't have to plan for 6 months

I've traveled all over Europe...and I just show up in the city..I don't plan every minute.
Planning ruins the trip for me...if I'm having a great time just walking around...I don't want to run some where for a certain time so I can check something off a list and say that I saw it....I spend hours just walking around getting lost and finding unusual things, drinking...talking to bartenders..enjoying the place.

This is what many people do on vacation...they just go with the flow and enjoy themselves.

Initially I liked the idea of the FP+ system...I'm into all the tech stuff and it sounded pretty cool.
I liked the IDEA of having a few pre-booked fast passes..and I could change them as my plans changed.
I had expected it would have evolved much better than it has.
The whole idea of having to wait behind indecisive people to use a kiosk is ridiculous when I have a smartphone.

I'm sure part of the issue was we were all demanding it..it was in testing and we were all complaining that we wanted it now..well now we have it

Over years the Disney experience has been less and less for me...unhappy cast members...below average food..lack of creativity..

I still put up with it.
I stopped eating at Disney TS restaurants...I can get better food at a local chain IMO
Ignored the rude cast remembers.
I could still show up..enjoy the weather and have a good time

But FP+ became a bigger issue for me..before FP+ I had flexibility in getting FP...now I was really locked into a park on a specific day.

Things change..weather changes...if it;s a cool day I may skip MK or AK because who wants to do water rides on a cool day - that flexibility is just no there.

There is just no more spontaneity.
In the morning if I am waiting to go to Epcot and a MK bus shows up...maybe I'll just jump on that and go there...really can't do that anymore..unless you don't mind loosing those FP+ and maybe getting a FP+ for some ride you never needed one for before

If they go to FP+ only for the big rides then you really don't have much of an option at all

IMO standby waters are longer than they were..there are sites that back that up..are they reliable or do they have an agenda...maybe they do.
I know I check the app and see much longer wait times then I'm used to for secondary rides..

There are lot's of people this works for and obviously there are a lot it does not work for...

All this being said there is nothing that can't be fixed over time and it may get better with tweaks..I doubt Disney actually wants to loose people who have been long time repeat customers .but until it is fixed I won't be booking anymore trips...and I don't see that happening any time soon

As I've said before I'm sure Kool-Aid man will now show up and say.."Oh Yeah!.Go elsewhere..More FP+ for me"

 

[jodyb]

Sorry if someone has already mentioned this - I admittedly have not read every post on this thread... but I am old enough to remember that when the traditional Fast Pass system started LOTS AND LOTS of people complained on and on about how unfair it was and how horrible it was for a myriad reasons!! So, IMO this is just another example of how change is hard for people (well, many people, not all). It's just change. Look at history (anything that happened more than a second ago is history BTW) and you'll see a clear pattern of people having fits when things change on them. To me it's all just blah blah blah. And I just can't stop yawning when people bring up how Disney is trying to make money. REALLY people? You really don't understand that it's a business and if they don't make money they can't imagine/build/maintain these parks that we SO DEARLY LOVE?????
The FP+ system is no better nor worse than any system that's come before it. It's new. It's a change. It's something to learn and get used to. I am going to WDW this weekend for my first trip since magic bands and FP+ came into being and I'm excited to get into the change and see how it will ultimately be of benefit. I'm going with an open mind and heart and a lot of excitement EXPECTING to get the MOST out of this CHANGE. But that's just me. I love change. I know you are not all me, and that's fine. I'm just pointing out that this firestorm of discontent WILL die down, and 10 years from now when Disney rolls out some other system there will be die-hard FP+ lovers who will decry its demise and hate whatever comes after it.

 

[JanaDee]

To get people talking, mostly. Sometimes you gotta shake the tree to get the fruit. As they say, you have to break a few eggs to make an omelette. Just look at the last page and a half of discussion. Pure gold. Great points being made. I've followed a few, and I haven't seen many FP+ threads get into the business motives behind graduated/controlled release of FP+. People have given me many good points to consider. I apologize if any innocents were hurt in the making of this thread, and to anyone I offended.

People have been talking about FP+ for 18 months. It has been analyzed and discussed up one side and down the other.

So don't say you stirred the pot to get people talking. People have been talking about this subject for a long time.