FP+ Frustration

[wisblue]

I would be inclined to agree with that but then those visitors are the ones most likely to reserve unneeded FP's for the wrong attractions by virtue of their inexperience.

They would only benefit the most if there was some sort of guidance built into the selection process - like perhaps showing average wait times for each choice they are considering using historical data for the date they are looking at and let the user chose which attraction they would like to avoid a long wait for. After all, isn't the entire point of FP to avoid long wait times? Technically, that would be an easy feature for WDW to add, they have all the data.

Then an informed choice could be made by an otherwise uninformed guest and FP would truly be of benefit.

There are plenty of resources out there that would allow infrequent visitors who spend the time doing the research to make FP selections that would save them the most time. Those who don't do that are likely to tour inefficiently by the standards of seasoned guests. That was true with paper FPs and before there were any FPs.

I really don't detect much sympathy on these boards for guests who choose FPs for the "wrong attractions". I sense more regret that some of those guests who wouldn't have made efficient use of the paper FP system are now making FP+ reservations for the most popular attractions, making fewer of them available for themselves.

IMHO, anyone who really cares about the plight of the poor, uninformed first time guest should welcome FP+ as a step toward giving those guests a more even share of the overall FP pool. But, not surprisingly, most people focus on how FP+ affects them directly. And, just to be clear, I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.

 

[Laketravis]

There are plenty of resources out there that would allow infrequent visitors who spend the time doing the research to make FP selections that would save them the most time. Those who don't do that are likely to tour inefficiently by the standards of seasoned guests. That was true with paper FPs and before there were any FPs...

But you just said FP+ benefits them the most. Now you say research is required in order to make beneficial choices. How does it benefit them if it actually provides less information on which to base a decision (primarily real time visual assessment) than the old system(s) did?

 

[wisblue]

But you just said FP+ benefits them the most. Now you say research is required in order to make beneficial choices. How does it benefit them if it actually provides less information on which to base a decision than the old system did?

Disney provided no information about how to use paper FPs, so I don't see how they are getting less information now. They simply provided passing references in some marketing materials that FP existed, and most guests probably never saw those.

Now they provide reminders to make FP+ reservations, and that can encourage a guest to think about what attractions might most appeal to them. Just by going to MDE to make FP+ reservations a guest is one step away from information about attractions.

But, even if a guest just blindly accepts the suggestions Disney provides them, they are better off than they would have been before.

 

[Laketravis]

Disney provided no information about how to use paper FPs, so I don't see how they are getting less information now.

Of course they did, but more importantly so did the environment at the time the decision would be made. Even if I had never been to WDW before in my life, I could look around, see that there wasn't much of a line for Figment and decide I didn't need an FP at all. That is not possible up to 60 days in advance from a computer.

Less information on which to base a decision.

In fact, I think it's a reasonable assumption that it is in WDW's best interest to present ALL choices as equally attractive, thus providing another opportunity to spread out demand. I'm looking at MDE now and the only distinction made for each attraction appears to be height requirements. Hmmmmm.......that's interesting that Disney, among the most creative marketeers in the world, didn't take that opportunity to build in excitement generating descriptions for each choice? Or at the very least, educate their visitor as to which popular attractions they may want to reserve? Why not? They do just that when you look at any on-site restaurant description that states "Reservations are highly recommended and can be made up to 180 days in advance."

You wouldn't if you're hoping just as many people reserve Captain EO as Test Track.

 

[summerskye]

You wouldn't if you're hoping just as many people reserve Captain EO as Test Track.

Wait. So I really don't need that Captain EO FP+. Just kidding. Never been there, never done that, never will. LOL

 

[JoeyAnyc]

summerskye
(and anyone else that cares to share)

I always felt this since the dinning reservations started online. Not that I mind, cause I'm a planner and can rest knowing everything is all set up and planned.

Today I was looking around at dinning options and thinking of changing plans for one of the days. There is nothing available - well nothing I would care for. So I find that being we are basically locked in with ADRs already, the FP+ doesn't seem to be a problem. For me, it was a BONUS to now have my rides planned out, knowing I'm going to get on Toy Story, Soarin', etc.

My point is, I feel we are already locked in with ADRs and slim pickings for last minute ADR changes. That's how I see it through my eyes. Just curious if others feel that way as well.

I hope you have a FANTASTIC time!

 

[Suvadoo]

Disney provided no information about how to use paper FPs, so I don't see how they are getting less information now. They simply provided passing references in some marketing materials that FP existed, and most guests probably never saw those.
.

Only E ticket attractions had FP's with legacy system. Disney didn't have to provide any additional information. Once FP+ was enacted, Disney added crap rides to their FP selections. C'mon EO and Figment? A total joke.

 

[MrInfinity]

I would be inclined to agree with that but then those visitors are the ones most likely to reserve unneeded FP's for the wrong attractions by virtue of their inexperience.

They would only benefit the most if there was some sort of guidance built into the selection process - like perhaps showing average wait times for each choice they are considering using historical data for the date they are looking at and let the user chose which attraction they would like to avoid a long wait for. After all, isn't the entire point of FP to avoid long wait times? Technically, that would be an easy feature for WDW to add, they have all the data.

Then an informed choice could be made by an otherwise uninformed guest and FP would truly be of benefit.

You're still arguing that FP+ is going to be bad for non-commando regular visitors because they won't know what to pick? That is just not the case. Just be honest. It is bad for you because it's so good for the regular guest.

If there is such an inexperienced traveler who picks sub-optimal rides, this same inexperienced traveler would not even use FP- at all. So even the ultimate luddite benefits from having 3 rides -- even less than optimal rides-- hand-fed to him. If you log in to MDE ~at all~ it pushes you to pick at least something. That's all that matters.

This being so useable by everyone since everyone has a phone these days is what makes it so bad for those who used to love FP-. But I firmly believe that FP+ is absolutely wonderful for the regular guest. The regular guest has no problem changing FP+ day-of, because the regular guest is not abhorred if he cannot get SDMT. He just changes them to what he wants to go on that is available. And most rides, save the two SDMT and A&E are all typically available day-of.

It is only power-tourers who feel they need to optimize them else they're leaving money on the table so to speak. Anyone else can just pick 3 rides and be happy with. They don't need guidance, or to be nudged toward better rides. (aka tiering / forcing you to take at least one optimal ride).

FP+ is truly of benefit. Disney attendance and profits are thru the roof for 2 years since its rollout.

You're welcome to dislike it, but I don't buy that you dislike it because it does not help regular guests enough. Since it is just how much it helps regular guests that makes it so much worse for you.

 

[DISNEYD14]

Small World was 30 min(it too may have been 45 as dh remembers but my recall was 30 so too be fair....), POTC 45, HM 45, Buzz 30.

These were the ones that stood out for me

Prior trip those 4 rides allowing for wait times and riding time about 55 minutes to an hour , maybe an hour and a half . This last trip had we done them all -3- 4 hours.....arghhhhh !!!! For us that is unacceptable and the main reason our May trip is now a Universal one with perhaps 1 day at Disney (and only because we have friends that will be on their first Disney trip that we're doing dinner with at BOG)

**Ugh sorry you had such long waits** Ours was wonderful and while we realize we won't have that on every trip like that one it did prompt us to book two trips for next year because we found it so much more relaxing **

 

[Suvadoo]

You're still arguing that FP+ is going to be bad for non-commando regular visitors because they won't know what to pick? That is just not the case. Just be honest. It is bad for you because it's so good for the regular guest.

If there is such an inexperienced traveler who picks sub-optimal rides, this same inexperienced traveler would not even use FP- at all. So even the ultimate luddite benefits from having 3 rides -- even less than optimal rides-- hand-fed to him. If you log in to MDE ~at all~ it pushes you to pick at least something. That's all that matters.

This being so useable by everyone since everyone has a phone these days is what makes it so bad for those who used to love FP-. But I firmly believe that FP+ is absolutely wonderful for the regular guest. The regular guest has no problem changing FP+ day-of, because the regular guest is not abhorred if he cannot get SDMT. He just changes them to what he wants to go on that is available. And most rides, save the two SDMT and A&E are all typically available day-of.

It is only power-tourers who feel they need to optimize them else they're leaving money on the table so to speak. Anyone else can just pick 3 rides and be happy with. They don't need guidance, or to be nudged toward better rides. (aka tiering / forcing you to take at least one optimal ride).

FP+ is truly of benefit. Disney attendance and profits are thru the roof for 2 years since its rollout.

You're welcome to dislike it, but I don't buy that you dislike it because it does not help regular guests enough. Since it is just how much it helps regular guests that makes it so much worse for you.

I can't believe you assume that everyone has a smart phone. I think you are mistaken.

 

[DISNEYD14]

Disney provided no information about how to use paper FPs, so I don't see how they are getting less information now. They simply provided passing references in some marketing materials that FP existed, and most guests probably never saw those.

Now they provide reminders to make FP+ reservations, and that can encourage a guest to think about what attractions might most appeal to them. Just by going to MDE to make FP+ reservations a guest is one step away from information about attractions.

But, even if a guest just blindly accepts the suggestions Disney provides them, they are better off than they would have been before.

**First time I went to WDW with old FP system I didn't know what FP was and never took advantage of it. There were no CMs explaining it**
We just started seeing people walk by us to get on ride and I thought it was something they paid for

 

[MrInfinity]

summerskye
(and anyone else that cares to share)

I always felt this since the dinning reservations started online. Not that I mind, cause I'm a planner and can rest knowing everything is all set up and planned.

Today I was looking around at dinning options and thinking of changing plans for one of the days. There is nothing available - well nothing I would care for. So I find that being we are basically locked in with ADRs already, the FP+ doesn't seem to be a problem. For me, it was a BONUS to now have my rides planned out, knowing I'm going to get on Toy Story, Soarin', etc.

My point is, I feel we are already locked in with ADRs and slim pickings for last minute ADR changes. That's how I see it through my eyes. Just curious if others feel that way as well.

I hope you have a FANTASTIC time!

I agree. Dining reservations and general trip planning are what decide which park you'll visit on which day. Once we have those planned, THEN we pick our FP's. Previously, we'd pick our days just the same, then show up and have to run for FP- tickets, and have no idea what we'll get on. Now I know we'll get on the rides we want when we want to, and fill in the rest of the time with standby stuff.

 

[MrInfinity]

I can't believe you assume that everyone has a smart phone. I think you are mistaken.

I would say most people in the target audience that Disney markets to has a smart phone. Yes. My mom does not. But if she was to go to Disney, it would be with us, and we have one. So I would say with relative certainty that most people in Disney's target 20-something and 30-something family with kids audience does indeed have a smartphone.

Our kids are required to have google accounts at school. Homework hotline is online, Khan academy is online, grades are online, etc. Sorry to be the messenger but if you do not have a smartphone perhaps it's time to get one if you want to utilize things that are in the now.

EDIT: For certain, Disney should not be gearing their parks TOWARD people who are so out of touch with the now that they do not have internet access or a smartphone. That would make absolutely no sense to make their parks not utilize technology because the occasional person chooses not to. Disney is known for being a leader in this regard.

 

[JennaDeeDooDah]

Here's an issue I'm running into regarding my FP+ selections. Maybe someone can help me out. I have no idea what time to schedule the passes for. On the one hand, if I schedule them for earlier in the day (say 10, 11, and 12ish), I have a better chance of getting a fourth or fifth fast pass. However, I have seen reports that people have had a hard time getting fourth and fifth passes for anything that is really worthy of a fast pass. I have seen other reports, though, that people were able to get fourth and fifth passes for the mountains and such. If I'm not able to get extra passes, though, that leaves me in the dead of the afternoon when lines are longest and no other option than to stand in the longer lines. Now, I can go for later passes (say around 1:30, 2:30, and 3:30), but pretty much eliminates any chance of getting more passes, from what I have read. So what do people most recommend? In the past, with legacy, I knew I would be able to collect as I went and I was also able to monitor current return times so I was better able to have an idea of whether or not passes would be available in an hour, two hours, or more. Not now.

 

[MrInfinity]

Here's an issue I'm running into regarding my FP+ selections. Maybe someone can help me out. I have no idea what time to schedule the passes for. On the one hand, if I schedule them for earlier in the day (say 10, 11, and 12ish), I have a better chance of getting a fourth or fifth fast pass. However, I have seen reports that people have had a hard time getting fourth and fifth passes for anything that is really worthy of a fast pass. I have seen other reports, though, that people were able to get fourth and fifth passes for the mountains and such. If I'm not able to get extra passes, though, that leaves me in the dead of the afternoon when lines are longest and no other option than to stand in the longer lines. Now, I can go for later passes (say around 1:30, 2:30, and 3:30), but pretty much eliminates any chance of getting more passes, from what I have read. So what do people most recommend? In the past, with legacy, I knew I would be able to collect as I went and I was also able to monitor current return times so I was better able to have an idea of whether or not passes would be available in an hour, two hours, or more. Not now.

Hi Jenna,
Your analysis is pretty spot on. It's a simple trade-off everyone faces. Get them early and pick up a few extras, or hold them till midday and use them when it's busiest. Honestly you can't really go wrong, and whatever you pick you shouldn't approach it like you've picked wrong and might miss out on a few minutes saved. The fact that everyone will approach it with their own strategy means the usage is spread out, so there really is no optimal choice.

On my May trip I did them at all different times. When I did them early, I found plenty after. For example, one day we did Soarin, Nemo, and switched our 3rd to Figment on the fly cuz Turtle Talk had no wait but Figment did. So we knocked out that part of the park early, and were able to get Maelstrom and Mission Space after that. At the MK pretty much everything but Splash Mtn was available late into the day. At DHS, it was a Star Wars Weekend, so after we used our 3, nothing was left (expected). Other days we just picked them midday and that was fine too. I think even those days at the MK we'd still find things like HM and Small World had availability. I think that when you're going will have more impact than anything on what you will get on. We typically hit moderate times and have no trouble getting on tons. Many of the FPs we picked midday we didn't even end up using.

So to answer your question, I would mix it up and do a little of both.

 

[Mikie]

summerskye
(and anyone else that cares to share)

I always felt this since the dinning reservations started online. Not that I mind, cause I'm a planner and can rest knowing everything is all set up and planned.

Today I was looking around at dinning options and thinking of changing plans for one of the days. There is nothing available - well nothing I would care for. So I find that being we are basically locked in with ADRs already, the FP+ doesn't seem to be a problem. For me, it was a BONUS to now have my rides planned out, knowing I'm going to get on Toy Story, Soarin', etc.

My point is, I feel we are already locked in with ADRs and slim pickings for last minute ADR changes. That's how I see it through my eyes. Just curious if others feel that way as well.

I hope you have a FANTASTIC time!

Exactly!! I felt like I'd be splitting hairs when I tried to say this. If the complaint is "a Disney vacation is more scheduledc that is like" I have no rebuttal. However the specific complaint is "FP+ makes me schedule every minute" or "you only get 3 rides" drives me nuts. Of course everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I think this gave me unneeded stress and (especially for anyone with my level of disney experience or less) paints an inaccurate picture. By FAR ADRs dictated more of my schedule and FP scheduling around that pre-existing ADR restriction actually helps.

FP can help you skip a long line 3 or maybe more times per day if you want to. Any other problems seem to be caused by trying to re-create the experience many preferred with FP-, which unfortunately is gone for good.

 

[SirDuff]

I can't believe you assume that everyone has a smart phone. I think you are mistaken.

That. And for international travelers, getting a data plan to use in the US (just for getting FP+) can be prohibitively expensive.

 

[DISNEYD14]

Hi Jenna,
Your analysis is pretty spot on. It's a simple trade-off everyone faces. Get them early and pick up a few extras, or hold them till midday and use them when it's busiest. Honestly you can't really go wrong, and whatever you pick you shouldn't approach it like you've picked wrong and might miss out on a few minutes saved. The fact that everyone will approach it with their own strategy means the usage is spread out, so there really is no optimal choice.

On my May trip I did them at all different times. When I did them early, I found plenty after. For example, one day we did Soarin, Nemo, and switched our 3rd to Figment on the fly cuz Turtle Talk had no wait but Figment did. So we knocked out that part of the park early, and were able to get Maelstrom and Mission Space after that. At the MK pretty much everything but Splash Mtn was available late into the day. At DHS, it was a Star Wars Weekend, so after we used our 3, nothing was left (expected). Other days we just picked them midday and that was fine too. I think even those days at the MK we'd still find things like HM and Small World had availability. I think that when you're going will have more impact than anything on what you will get on. We typically hit moderate times and have no trouble getting on tons. Many of the FPs we picked midday we didn't even end up using.

So to answer your question, I would mix it up and do a little of both.

** The only days we had an issue with 4th FP was Epcot even with morning FP+ selections, with that said. We were able to get 4th FP+ for 3 people on TT for a second time and 2 on Soarin ** We just split the family up for our 4th FP

I recommend early FP+ for MK and AK as we had plenty of opportunties for extra FP in both parks at 12noon-1pm

 

[Laketravis]

You're welcome to dislike it, but I don't buy that you dislike it because it does not help regular guests enough. Since it is just how much it helps regular guests that makes it so much worse for you.

Fuzzy, you based your entire counterpoint on the false assumption I dislike FP+ without considering the reasons I gave that indicate it is not the benefit to new or "regular" guests that supporters make it out to be. What exactly is a "regular" guest, anyway?

Besides - I love FP+ so there goes your counterpoint.

Except for Tiers, of course. Hate those. And only being able to make them in one park for the day. Don't like that at all. And that by all accounts there doesn't seem to be anything attractive left for those 4th and beyond FP's. That sucks.

Seems that first-timers are portrayed as either completely ignorant or totally educated depending on which condition supports the pro-FP view. But yeah, I maintain that first-timers (which is a very large percentage of WDW visitors) would benefit much more if the FP+ choices contained some sort of guidance towards smart choices, just as TS locations contain the advice that "Advance reservations are strongly recommended".

 

[wdwcoltsfan]

Here's an issue I'm running into regarding my FP+ selections. Maybe someone can help me out. I have no idea what time to schedule the passes for. On the one hand, if I schedule them for earlier in the day (say 10, 11, and 12ish), I have a better chance of getting a fourth or fifth fast pass. However, I have seen reports that people have had a hard time getting fourth and fifth passes for anything that is really worthy of a fast pass. I have seen other reports, though, that people were able to get fourth and fifth passes for the mountains and such. If I'm not able to get extra passes, though, that leaves me in the dead of the afternoon when lines are longest and no other option than to stand in the longer lines. Now, I can go for later passes (say around 1:30, 2:30, and 3:30), but pretty much eliminates any chance of getting more passes, from what I have read. So what do people most recommend? In the past, with legacy, I knew I would be able to collect as I went and I was also able to monitor current return times so I was better able to have an idea of whether or not passes would be available in an hour, two hours, or more. Not now.

Here is what I would do after experiencing the parks with FP+

MK- I would go to the parks in good time and ride the rides that you know you want to experience, but don't want to waste a FP on. We didn't have problems with long lines on the "secondary" rides, but many people do and a I do believe there are many people who show up with no FP booked, so they go to the kiosk and take what is left. So, pick your 3 FP+ for a little later and do everything else first.

Epcot- We booked TT and went about 30 min after RD and rode Soarin with a minimal standby wait. We also had Figment and SE booked with FP+, but we wouldn't have needed them. I would still keep FP+ a little later and ride the other rides first.

HS- Booked TSMM and went shortly after RD and rode RNR with minimal wait. We also had TOT and Muppets. I would book the FP+ a little later so you can do GMR, Star Tours etc. before lines really start to form. We didn't do the shows this time, so that may throw your plans off a little.

AK- This park is so easy(for us). We booked Dinosaur, EE and Safari. Everything else was minimal wait. I think this park gives the most flexibility because there is no tiering and rides that can be little to no wait.