For what reasons could you be requested to go through the full body scanners?

[jodifla]

THANK YOU!

So the problem is the "bedside manner", NOT the "exam" itself? So if the screeners are polite, friendly, and professional (I'm guessing there are at least some out there), you're ok with it?

Absolutely. That would be the professional way to go about things. Last Monday, no one told me what was going on. For some reason I set off the metal detector, so then they sent me to this other machine I didn't recognize. They way they had me stand in the machine, first one way, then another. I could NOT see my things, including my purse, for at least part of the time.

Then I came out of the machine and they just had me stand there, waiting for a radio report. Then they told me to sit down, raise my feet, which the woman went over. Then they told me to stand up, and didn't warn me that the woman was going to start touching me. That was really alarming, not like anything I'd experienced before in the couple of times I've been flagged for pat downs....and I had no idea what was to happen next. My pat down wasn't that invasive, but the second she touched me, my response was "Hey, what's going on here? This is ridiculous."

At no point was the procedure described to me.

If they don't want to be treated with hostility, then they sure better explain what they are doing, and been courteous while doing it. NOTHING else is acceptable.

 

[grafxgirl]

....great.....That really sucks. You realize they can see what you look like naked??!! That is VERY upsetting to me. I purposely wear clothes that mask my fat. It is a HUGE invasion of my privacy.

This is an example of what the images look like, from an article I read:

http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/mmw_large.jpg

Here's the article:
http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/privacy.shtm

 

[LadyBeBop]

So the problem is the "bedside manner", NOT the "exam" itself? So if the screeners are polite, friendly, and professional (I'm guessing there are at least some out there), you're ok with it?

Jodifla probably said it better than me. However, I have to be able to trust them before I would want to touch my privates. A doctor with 8 years of post-graduate study has earned it. A TSA employee with a high school education has not.

Although, maybe I'm a little too trusting of the doctor...being a daughter of an OB/GYN.

This is an example of what the images look like, from an article I read:

http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/mmw_large.jpg

Here's the article:
http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/privacy.shtm

As I suspected, it makes everyone look like a space alien. I can live with that. I'm still leary of the patdowns.

I'm assuming you still might be subject to the patdowns, right?

 

[Minnie Lor]

I'm assuming you still might be subject to the patdowns, right?

Yes, they do random "patdowns" (BTW, why are we calling it pat downs when it's in no way shape or form a pat down)

I don't care if anyone thinks I'm fat or skinny, it's just plain wrong to have go thru this to get on a mode of transportation. It makes me think of the people (and kids) in line for the guillotine in POTC3 movie. Just blindly go where your gov't leads you.

Who knows if the backscatter is dangerous. We won't know that for 20 years or so. I've had skin cancer cut out of me and don't want to go thru that again.

So even if you subject yourself to the naked body scan, backscatter, or whatever you want to call it, they still do random body checks. It depends on if you moved while in the machine, left a kleenex in your pocket, or if the TSA person thinks you're hot.

Honestly, we have a trip planned and paid for next May. I'm hoping this gets resolved and soon. If I could I would cancel in a heart beat. (I have $2000 in and can't get back) We had been planning a trip to Canada and Japan in the next 2 years and they are on hold.

For those that don't care...well you will care when flights get canceled or are harder to find due to an economic crisis with the airline industry. Just my 2 cents.

 

[padawans]

Why are people comparing tsa to a ob /gyn. I mean seriously you go to a Gyn to see if you have cancer or to have a baby or because you have some other female problem. It's not even comparable. The analogies people make on this board make absolutely no sense.

 

[padawans]

Yes, they do random "patdowns" (BTW, why are we calling it pat downs when it's in no way shape or form a pat down)

I don't care if anyone thinks I'm fat or skinny, it's just plain wrong to have go thru this to get on a mode of transportation. It makes me think of the people (and kids) in line for the guillotine in POTC3 movie. Just blindly go where your gov't leads you.

Who knows if the backscatter is dangerous. We won't know that for 20 years or so. I've had skin cancer cut out of me and don't want to go thru that again.

So even if you subject yourself to the naked body scan, backscatter, or whatever you want to call it, they still do random body checks. It depends on if you moved while in the machine, left a kleenex in your pocket, or if the TSA person thinks you're hot.

Honestly, we have a trip planned and paid for next May. I'm hoping this gets resolved and soon. If I could I would cancel in a heart beat. (I have $2000 in and can't get back) We had been planning a trip to Canada and Japan in the next 2 years and they are on hold.

For those that don't care...well you will care when flights get canceled or are harder to find due to an economic crisis with the airline industry. Just my 2 cents.

I'm with you we have a trip planned for this May paid for and promised to my kids, but it will be the last time I fly if this is not resolved. No way will I put my kids through molestation by a tsa agent more than once during thier childhood. Its funny that the people that are for this don't think it will affect them. The parks may be empty and hotels may be cheap everywhere, but this also means less supply and reduced quality. Personally I would rather see the planes full, the parks full, the hotels full, unemployment at 4% and the quality improved. It always irks me when I read comments on this board and people are happy the economies bad because they will get a better discount. I just don't get that selfish thinking.

 

[CJsMom]

Over Thanksgiving weekend, I'm flying out of Manchester, NH for an 11 night stay at WDW. I believe that the Manchester airport (MHT) hasn't installed the security scanners yet so no problems are anticipated. My concern is on the trip back through MCO. From what I understand is that when you are in the scanner, you cannot see your possessions on the conveyer belt. Keeping my eyes on my possessions has always been an issue so this new scanner really throws me. I have multiple health issues so I carry lots of medicine on me. When I travel, I put my medications in a gallon storage baggie and at the airport, TSA has always made me place my baggie in a plastic bin with my other possessions. When I pull my medications out of my carry on, I look like a walking pharmaceutical. Any recommendations on how I can keep my medications and other valuables from being grabbed by someone who may not be honest? I also read that even with a pat down, you are not near your possessions or have eyes on.

As for the actual screening, I haven't made a decision on whether to have a pat down or be scanned. I have cancer so I have frequent exposure to CT scans and x-rays. As for the physicality, I no longer have much modesty due to invasive medical exams. I just want to get through this experience without a lot of drama/trauma so I can enjoy my vacation.

Thanks for any advice.
Sharon

I have only experienced this in the Tampa airport, not MCO, so I don't know how helpful it will be...but the scanner was located next to the regular security line. The TSA guy told me to watch my possessions while the scan and pat down were happening (they had me stand facing the regular security line). I would have been able to see if someone else grabbed them.

 

[GraceLuvsWDW]

Personally, in America, I don't think people are going to stand for this for too long. I haven't read this whole thread but if I go through the metal detector and do not set it off I do not see ANY reason whatsoever why I should be made to go through the full body scanner. If I set it off, well that is another issue. If I refuse to go through the whole body scanner, which I absolutely would opt out of for many reasons which I don't need to go into, I absolutely WOULD become highly offended if ANYONE touched my private parts or the private parts of my child with their palm or the back of their hand or a wand or even a 10 foot pole. If that is what my options are in order to fly then I will be driving. And I venture to say I will not be the only one as I am not a "radical" person in any way. I just respect my own and my families private parts and would not subject any one of them to that sort of invasion of our privacy. If there is reasonable cause, well that's another matter. But if we pass metal detector, pass bag xray, and allow anyone to inspect any belonging we have then why on earth would we need to be body scanned or patted down? I once had a TSA agent come up and swab my fingers with a Qtip. No warning, no explanation. What if I had an allergy to whatever substance they were swabbing me with? This is just out of control and I for one hope that people get annoyed and protest. Unless it is a 100% reliable, noninvasive, safe, secure method of screening, I will not agree.

 

[Super 27]

I looked up the case (US vs. A?????) and there was a line in the courts finding about once you have gone through a screening or even put your bags on the belt that you have given consent..

U.S. v. Aukai. 2007 ruling from the US Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit.

 

[kaytieeldr]

That's being pretty generous. There are a lot of TSA employees. I'd bet SOME are definitely doing it for some sort of rush....most likely a power trip.

Lift breasts, grabbing testicles is groping, pure and simple.

Something like 85% of us wear the wrong size bra; if we wore bras that fit and supported as they were designed, the TSOs wouldn't have to lift anything - the bras would be doing that already!!

 

[Super 27]

But if we pass metal detector, pass bag xray, and allow anyone to inspect any belonging we have then why on earth would we need to be body scanned or patted down?

Because walk-through metal detectors and x-ray machines don't catch everything. Keep in mind, we were using those on 9/11, we were using those when the shoe bomber got through, and we were using those last Christmas when the underwear bomber got through. Not every security device is going to detect every possible threat.

I personally look at security threats the same way I look at any other airplane accident - there's always a chain of events leading up to the disaster. The theory is that if you can break that chain somewhere, you can likely prevent the disaster. Since Americans are never going to allow themselves to be subject to El Al style security, the best that we can do is use a LOT of different methods (intelligence, better policing, airport security, onboard security, etc) at different times and hope that we can "break the chain" somewhere and keep the bad guys from being able to do us harm. It's a game of probability. Take the ID checks for example. 99.999% of the time it's a complete waste of time. But if that .001% of the time they do actually uncover someone whose papers don't match and turns out to be a threat, then it's not a waste. Same with all of the technology - it's about being able to throw the enemy off their game and keep the odds on our side. That's my take, at least.

 

[ironz]

This may have not too much to do with this particular thread, but the comments I need to respond to are on locked threads.

The next time someone compares having a TSA agent look at your scan image or handle your body and you compare it to your medical professionals. Just. STOP. and THINK. It is NOT the same. If you honestly think that you can compare your physician, with 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-6 years of residency to a TSA agent with possibly a GED, I feel really sorry for your doctor. Yes, I'm a physician. And I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on the "enhanced" security here. But just get over the "oh, the TSA will be just AS professional as the doctor and no one could possibly feel less comfortable" crud. It's insulting.
I'm sure the Chef at V & A's would be happy to be compared to the CM at the popcorn cart, too.

 

[maxiesmom]

This may have not too much to do with this particular thread, but the comments I need to respond to are on locked threads.

The next time someone compares having a TSA agent look at your scan image or handle your body and you compare it to your medical professionals. Just. STOP. and THINK. It is NOT the same. If you honestly think that you can compare your physician, with 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-6 years of residency to a TSA agent with possibly a GED, I feel really sorry for your doctor. Yes, I'm a physician. And I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on the "enhanced" security here. But just get over the "oh, the TSA will be just AS professional as the doctor and no one could possibly feel less comfortable" crud. It's insulting.
I'm sure the Chef at V & A's would be happy to be compared to the CM at the popcorn cart, too.

As a physician, do you look at every naked body you see and go "oooooh, naked bodies. Oh boy oh boy!" I highly doubt it, but that seems to be what people are saying that the TSA agents will be doing. Why do you think a particular group of people will get the jollies off of the human form more than the others who see it all (or some of it) on any given day?

It has nothing to do with pay grade. I don't think any one profession has all the creeps and perverts in it. I'm sure there are some cops and doctors who get all wierd about what they do, but I am sure they are very few and far between too. But no one suggests police not be allowed to run their hands over someone they arrest.

There is no difference if you think about it without getting caught up in all of the hysteria. Just different groups of people trying to do their job the way they are told to do it.

 

[sam_gordon]

Wow, the board's been busy...

Yes, they do random "patdowns" (BTW, why are we calling it pat downs when it's in no way shape or form a pat down)

I wouldn't call it a "grope". So what do you want to call it that not inflamatory to either side?

I don't care if anyone thinks I'm fat or skinny, it's just plain wrong to have go thru this to get on a mode of transportation. It makes me think of the people (and kids) in line for the guillotine in POTC3 movie. Just blindly go where your gov't leads you.

So your fine with some security (that has let terrorists get through), but not others?

Who knows if the backscatter is dangerous. We won't know that for 20 years or so. I've had skin cancer cut out of me and don't want to go thru that again.

Agreed. We won't know for years if cell phones are dangerous (as some people claim). Does that mean we shouldn't be using cell phones?

It depends on if you moved while in the machine, left a kleenex in your pocket, or if the TSA person thinks you're hot.

Why does it matter if the TSA person thinks you're "hot"? Unless they are homosexual, they won't be the ones doing the scanning.

For those that don't care...well you will care when flights get canceled or are harder to find due to an economic crisis with the airline industry. Just my 2 cents.

And how many "crisis" have the airlines gone through so far? (ie: high fuel charges), they're still flying, and personally, so will I. If you don't want to, fine.

If that is what my options are in order to fly then I will be driving. And I venture to say I will not be the only one as I am not a "radical" person in any way. I just respect my own and my families private parts and would not subject any one of them to that sort of invasion of our privacy.

More power to you. Enjoy the road.

Unless it is a 100% reliable, noninvasive, safe, secure method of screening, I will not agree.

Let's do away with the WTMD... they've been proven to NOT be reliable.

U.S. v. Aukai. 2007 ruling from the US Court of Appeals for the 9th Circuit.

Thanks!

The next time someone compares having a TSA agent look at your scan image or handle your body and you compare it to your medical professionals. Just. STOP. and THINK. It is NOT the same. If you honestly think that you can compare your physician, with 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-6 years of residency to a TSA agent with possibly a GED, I feel really sorry for your doctor.

How does the extra schooling = "professional"? I only have a 4 year degree. I guess I'm not a "professional". The doctors have gone through all the schooling to learn how to recognize and treat diseases. I'm sure it takes that long just for a start, and doctors continue to learn throughout their career. Screeners on the other hand might just need a couple months to recognize what plastic explosives, weapons, etc look like.

Yes, I'm a physician. And I'm not even going to go into my thoughts on the "enhanced" security here. But just get over the "oh, the TSA will be just AS professional as the doctor and no one could possibly feel less comfortable" crud. It's insulting.
I'm sure the Chef at V & A's would be happy to be compared to the CM at the popcorn cart, too.

Again, "professionalism" does NOT equal "skill". Or do you think the CM at the popcorn cart can't be courteous and professional?

 

[N965VJ]

Are airport employees (not on-board personal, but those who stay in the airport) subject to this as well? Both of my daughters used to work at the airport. In fact, my youngest used to work at the McDonalds inside security. I would hate for a Mickey D's employee to go through this, on a daily basis, just to get to work.

Airline and TSA employees can bypass the checkpoint for administrative convenience. I don't believe this would apply to people that work in the food court.

This is an example of what the images look like, from an article I read:

http://www.tsa.gov/graphics/images/approach/mmw_large.jpg

Here's the article:
http://www.tsa.gov/approach/tech/ait/privacy.shtm

Keep in mind that the TSA has refused to release specimen images in the same size and resolution as what the screener will see when he is alone in the viewing booth.

As a physician, do you look at every naked body you see and go "oooooh, naked bodies. Oh boy oh boy!" I highly doubt it, but that seems to be what people are saying that the TSA agents will be doing. Why do you think a particular group of people will get the jollies off of the human form more than the others who see it all (or some of it) on any given day?

The TSA is advertising for screener jobs on pizza boxes and gas pumps promising "x-ray vision". Now anyone with an x-ray fetish does not need to spend the time and money to become a medical technician to satisfy their kink.

Why does it matter if the TSA person thinks you're "hot"? Unless they are homosexual, they won't be the ones doing the scanning.

There are no dedicated Nude-O-Scopes for male and female passengers, and the person in the viewing booth is in radio contact with his fellow screeners at the checkpoint that are directing people into the machine.

 

[sam_gordon]

The TSA is advertising for screener jobs on pizza boxes and gas pumps promising "x-ray vision".

Of course, at least in the picture I saw, the "x-ray vision" it's promoting is for luggage.

Now anyone with an x-ray fetish does not need to spend the time and money to become a medical technician to satisfy their kink.

We now have to do away with medical x-rays and mammograms because even one person using those items for sexual gratification is too much.

There are no dedicated Nude-O-Scopes for male and female passengers, and the person in the viewing booth is in radio contact with his fellow screeners at the checkpoint that are directing people into the machine.

a) My point was about those who were being selected for the enhanced pat downs... not the new scopes.
b) Are you claiming a TSA agent "among the public" so to speak is picking people for the new scopes based on their attractiveness, and then getting on the radio (which presumably other TSA agents can hear) to the one "behind the screen" saying "hey, I got a hot one for you!"

 

[N965VJ]

Source please.

TSA advertising on gas pumps.

TSA advertising on pizza boxes.

We now have to do away with medical x-rays and mammograms because even one person using those items for sexual gratification is too much.

Medical professionals are held to a high standard, TSA employees fail to meet those standards.

Are you claiming a TSA agent "among the public" so to speak is picking people for the new scopes based on their attractiveness, and then getting on the radio (which presumably other TSA agents can hear) to the one "behind the screen" saying "hey, I got a hot one for you!"

That is one kind of abuse of the system that the TSA has set itself up for and has been confirmed in numerous anecdotal reports; Google is your friend.

 

[ccgirl]

You do realize they perform background checks on the TSA agents; correct? I fail to see why how much they make, or how they heard about the job should reflect treating them with respect and common courtesy. All people deserve that. I am just so sick of hearing that they (TSA screeners) only have GED's or only make x# of $'s. Does that make me a better person because I hold a college degree and make more money? NO! Nobody is better than anybody else. Imagine a world if we all treated people as we would like to be treated?? The TSA screener is doing their job that they were trained to do. I really do not see how going in there with a confrontational attitude is going to do anything but make the situation more difficult.

To each their own I guess.

 

[goofy4tink]

There will be no more bashing of TSA personel on this board. It shows an utter lack of respect for others when you color an entire group of people with one nasty brush. Anyone who truly believes that all TSA employess are nasty, rude, groping perverts is sadly mistaken. And it makes any argument you make all that much less believable.

Go ahead and discuss the proceedures at the security checkpoints..but there will be no more postings about what type individual is doing the screening, or pat down, or whatever.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Because walk-through metal detectors and x-ray machines don't catch everything. Keep in mind, we were using those on 9/11, we were using those when the shoe bomber got through, and we were using those last Christmas when the underwear bomber got through. Not every security device is going to detect every possible threat.

I personally look at security threats the same way I look at any other airplane accident - there's always a chain of events leading up to the disaster. The theory is that if you can break that chain somewhere, you can likely prevent the disaster. Since Americans are never going to allow themselves to be subject to El Al style security, the best that we can do is use a LOT of different methods (intelligence, better policing, airport security, onboard security, etc) at different times and hope that we can "break the chain" somewhere and keep the bad guys from being able to do us harm. It's a game of probability. Take the ID checks for example. 99.999% of the time it's a complete waste of time. But if that .001% of the time they do actually uncover someone whose papers don't match and turns out to be a threat, then it's not a waste. Same with all of the technology - it's about being able to throw the enemy off their game and keep the odds on our side. That's my take, at least.

Just wondering . . . what terrorist, or suspected terrorist, has been caught by the TSA during an ID check at the entrance to the secure area? I've read reports of bogus IDs, but what terrorist, suspected or otherwise?

You do realize they perform background checks on the TSA agents; correct? I fail to see why how much they make, or how they heard about the job should reflect treating them with respect and common courtesy. All people deserve that. I am just so sick of hearing that they (TSA screeners) only have GED's or only make x# of $'s. Does that make me a better person because I hold a college degree and make more money? NO! Nobody is better than anybody else. Imagine a world if we all treated people as we would like to be treated?? The TSA screener is doing their job that they were trained to do. I really do not see how going in there with a confrontational attitude is going to do anything but make the situation more difficult.

To each their own I guess.

The background checks of TSAers are no indication of future behavior . . . if they were, we wouldn't have all the arrests of TSAers for eiither on duty or off duty criminal acts.

I have only experienced this in the Tampa airport, not MCO, so I don't know how helpful it will be...but the scanner was located next to the regular security line. The TSA guy told me to watch my possessions while the scan and pat down were happening (they had me stand facing the regular security line). I would have been able to see if someone else grabbed them.

Did you get both the WBI and the body search?