Fool on the Hill: You Can't Cheat Quality

[Baileymouse]

We've been going to Disney steadily since 1995. My son has gone from 10 to 16 in that time period. Here are our impressions:

1. Customer service was always wonderful (except for a really bad Planet Hollywood incident in 95) but now it's not quite as great. I think understaffing is becoming a problem. I was disappointed this past January when one of my guests (I brought a friends to Disney) experienced a sick stomach on Star Tours. We couldn't get a CM to help us out of the park, the parade was starting, and no one offered assistance. One young CM who was on her break did try to help us but couldn't get security or a supervisor to help. We had to walk the long way around and take the bus back to OKW (which is a nightmare). That subjected all of the lovely people on the bus to my poor friend's stench. This was also the first time I was given a hard time about passes when buying with the DVC discount, too. Some of the CM at the window had never heard of it.

2. Rides - some of the newer rides have been good, some have been a disaster. My son, for all of his age 15-16 bravado, still looks forward to almost everything. He doesn't identify with the Mouse but he always finds other things he loves. The entire family HATED the new Journey into Imagination ride. My son and husband like the Buzz Lightyear ride. Most teens don't seem to want to sit through the stage shows or parades. They're not appealing. Here's the kid's take on the parks:

Animal Kingdom - 1/2 day at most, not to be done on a short trip. Water ride is cool, dino ride is too much like UofE.

MGM - TOT is a must do, someone please change the ST story, the new Aerosmith Coaster is good but over way too fast, the Indiana Jones show needs to be redone. Another 1/2 day park but at least ToT you can do again and again!

EPCOT - Should have made Innoventions more like Disney Quest. Add more Already discussed the Imagination debacle. UofA is getting way too long in the tooth. Most of it is a been there, done that but he still enjoys ending the day in Spaceship Earth! It's sort of a good wind-down.

In the World Showcase, someone add more countries, please! Update the Mexico show. Always have to see Norway. He likes seeing the different countries - as a kid he had the passport, now that he's older he's very interested in learning about the people. He loves Morocco - could be the belly dancer in the restaurant, I don't know ...he doesn't like the latest advent of Illuminations. He likes fireworks and he really liked it a few years ago, but he thinks the update is pretentious.

MK - Best done on E-Ticket night, do all the E-Ticket open rides. Gotta go on Space Mountain and the Haunted Mansion. Splash Mountain, too. Coolest place for retro fun is New Tomorrowland but it could use more rides. The Buzz ride is the best kiddie ride they have now. It's not worth going when it's crowded because you can't get on the good stuff and there's too many little kids.

His other favorite things to do? Go to Downtown Disney to shop (every teen's dream) because there's merchandise other than Disney park trinkets, go to Disney Quest, eat at someplace fun, and enjoy the evening. He also loves to spend a day at both Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach. He's also noted that he thinks that Disney's 14 month marketing ploys - the 25th anniversary, the millennium celebration, etc. waste too much money on advertising and stupidity "like making the castle a big pink cake, get real" than putting in rides or attractions which can serve to commemmorate the event.

HOWEVER, in January he did go over to IofA with my Mother. I wasn't interested because we went to Universal 5 years ago and I thought it was awful. Poor service, mediocre rides, etc. Josh and Mom both said it's changed completely - IofA is wonderful! Josh loved the attractions and rides, and the 'tude. Mom said the service was definitely much better. She booked a room at the Portofino and loved every minute.

Mom lives near SFGA and never goes there. My son does and he likes the big rides but he doesn't compare it to Disney. I do think you'll see increases in regional parks this year (the Jersey Shore is having a banner year) and this is definitely due to the economy.

As for the movies - he didn't like Pearl Harbor, he grudgingly liked Atlantis - he was very interested in Atlantis because of the artwork - and he enjoyed Shrek. His friends made him see Shrek - he had no intention of seeing it but he came home saying "it's a non-Disney Disney movie! It's awesome!"

So that's our teen's view. Anyone in marketing listening? I'm going without him in September and I am looking forward to it but there's stuff I'll definitely skip.

Baileymouse

 

[YoHo]

To be quite honest with everyone, I'm over the testimonials about who likes what and how much. I trust that Disney knows what the global numbers are and will act if they aren't in line with expectations. (Note, I didn't say they'd act well)

The reason I'm fed up is that there are so many people that want so many different things from Disney. You know what, they have added a whole heck of a lot in the past 10-15 years.

Splash mountain is the number one attraction at Disney according to my Debate board poll with ToT in the top 5 as well. So don't give me this they haven't done anything in the past 10 years, because its wrong and ignorant, they've created two of their most loved rides in the last 10 years.

I'm also going to go with the Landbaron view on things like Aladdin. Its nice, bravo, it's not a free license to let other aspects of the park slip.

Some people want a thrill park, some people want more shows, some people want no shows. Personally, they got rid of all the live shows I enjoy (except Indy) but based on numbers, I'm in the minority.


Finally, just an aside about MIB and Buzz, I don't care which was built first and which is better, but MIB was one Summer blockbuster movie and a terrible kids cartoon show. Toy Story is a bonified Classic. In 20 years, which theme do you think people will remember better?

 

[DisDuck]

Does anyone know what demographics Disney is courting? There is all this talk about losing age groups, etc. Of my family of 6 (4 children) 4 out of 6 do not like most coasters (loops, spins, backwards, etc). Only my 20 yo daughter and 22 yo son like coasters and only my daughter would still go to Disney. My 22 yo prefers Cancun. My 20 yo went to both IOA and Disney last year and liked both but still prefers Disney.

Disney is designed for everyone; therefore, cannot please everyone. If you prefer thrills then Disney does not have enough. Yes, if you don't have children what is there in Disney to capture you, maybe very little. However, what captures me is that I can be a child again and not considered crazy (except by my children). In the hustle and bustle of thrill-town called IOA I do not get that feeling.

So rather be a child and go to Disney.

 

[hopemax]

My Dad and my theory is that in Disney's quest to expand, they saw an untapped market of people who tradionally like entertainment but don't spend their money with Disney. And tried to get a piece of that market with the feeling that "Disney people" would stay regardless of what Disney looked like, but because it was Disney.

Thus the new Disney Store design and merchandise selection that de-emphasized characters or using them in a more trendy manner.

Thus a theme park with less emphasis on characters, whimisical feel-good style attractions.

Thus a slate of animated movies without broadway style songs, princesses, cute sidekicks.

I think from the numbers, a lot of "Disney people" voted with their dollars and said it *does* matter what Disney looks like, and I don't know how many new people Disney attracted.

I think some people are never going to like Disney, if there is a mouse or the Disney name anywhere in sight, and a better strategy would be to use some of the other properties (ESPN, Touchtone, Miramax, ABC) to capture the audience that way. I don't think it's possible to find a one-size-fits-all product that will appeal to the "Disney people" and the people who never liked Disney before.

 

[F.C. Fan]

Yoho

I personally do not care for the M.I.B. cartoon show myself, but alot more kids watch it than Buzz Lightyear of Star Command.
I also can't stand the crappy animation of ALMOST all of Disney's TV and direct to home videos, compared to their beautiful movies, (and don't get me wrong I don't care for the M.I.B., Jumanji, etc. style of animation 1 bit either).

I would really love it if Disney and Pixar would do something computer animated for tv, like Max Steel, Action Man, or Starship Troopers, or perhaps something Toy Story related.

If M.I.B. was only a 1 summer movie then why would they make a sequel to it?

At least M.I.B. is based on stuff from the movie, in the Buzz attraction where's the Toy Story or Toy Story 2 references ,other than Buzz and Zurg????

 

[Another Voice]

I am not going to bicker here (but the part about Walt watching them build the Magic Kingdom was pretty good for a man who’d been dead for three years at that point). I’m firmly convinced that if Islands of Adventure and Animal Kingdom would have been built on opposite ends of I-4, many people here would be claiming that IOA was the greatest theme park in the world and that Universal’s Animal Kingdom was nothing but a half-day petting zoo.

Having been to all of the parks mentioned here (with the obvious exception of Tokyo DisneySea), Islands proves that Universal is capable of creating a park on par with Disney. Compared to California Adventure – vastly superior to Disney in almost all respects. And the public seems to agree since the first year attendance at California Adventure is now tracking to be much worse than the first year’s attendance at Islands. Brand loyalty may work for toothpaste, but it’s very hard to maintain for an entertainment company. People aren’t stupid and can see declining quality and value despite what Mr. Eisner believes.

One comment that really hit a nerve, though, was the “inspiration” generated by ‘Pearl Harbor’. No, it wasn’t. It was part of a cynical – and in my opinion, distasteful – marketing campaign for a hack-job of a movie. The film aspired to be nothing more than ‘Titanic’ with bigger explosions and it failed to live up to even that inane level. ‘Pearl’ is an example of sloppy, uncaring, low quality film making – and the public rightly rejected it. Thankfully, the movie was such an artistic, critical and financial failure that we were spared the planned 4th of July ad campaign.

 

[johare]

Quote of the day:

Disney is designed for everyone; therefore, cannot please everyone

 

[Sarangel]

...but if you go to Tokyo Disney instead of California Disney they will still get your money so why would they care?

Nope... Oriental Land Co gets most of it, Disney only gets a licensing fee of some sort. A deal that Disney kicks itself for daily, even though it made sense at the time.

Sarangel

 

[AFgirl325]

First of all, forgive me if this was already written but i couldn't take reading any more posts about how since teenagers hate Disney that is a factor in why Disney is taking a terrible turn.

I'm 14 years old and proudly say that I love Disney- the parks, the cruise line, the channel, its movies and everything else.

I have been to WDW 7 times in the past 8 years and will be going to DL/DCA for the first time next year. I can't wait. Plans for either a 4-days at land/3 days at sea or 7day cruise in 2003 are in the works. The idea of returning to Disney some many times was the idea of my brother (12 years old) and I- my parents just went along with it. It's us, the teenagers who want to return year after year.

I find it apalling that some of you think that all of us in the 'evil years' turn on Disney. Obviously, if Disney did have more thrill rides, it would even enhance the experience. But one of the great things I find about Disney is that it lets you be a kid again! I'm sure some of you may still consider 14 a kid, but believe me, my friends and I have had countless conversations about how we wish we could still be kids. By going to Disney, I am able to a be a kid again.

I know some of you may think that this is just my opinion- one of a nieve, young kid. But you could just look on the Teen Disney board here. I check it everyday and find new posts concerning disney and the excitement of upcoming trips. And it just so happens in my yearbook this year, the poll on favorite shows included the Disney Channel (May I add that MTV was not there?) Moreover, I can't tell you how many friends I have that are jealous that I go to Disney each year and how many friends I now have who are begging their parents to take them to Disney.

So maybe some of you will still think I'm in the minority of teenagers. That'd most of us would rather be at IOA. Sure that place is great, but I'd pick Disney over IOA anyday. And maybe you think we're immune to the loss of Disney magic- in the parks, in the movies, in the office of M. Eisner. But I don't care if the paint at the Haunted Mansion is chipped or it takes an extra 15 minutes to get into my room. I still want to go to Disney for the
experience.

So, in turn, I just hope this shows you that all of us in our 'evil years' do not necessarily dislike or have turned on Disney.

P.S. When I have children, there is no doubt in my mind my children will be taking annual trips to Disney.

 

[hopemax]

AFgirl,

Out of curiosity, what do your peers think of Disney? Not just your friends, but the other people in your classes that you don't hang out because you have different interests?

I too loved Disney when I was a teen, and my friends did too, but a lot of other teens in my classes thought Disney was stupid. They were too interested in keeping up with the hottest clothing styles and music groups, and the idea of doing something that their parents and younger siblings enjoyed would be a fate worse than death.

As much as I loved Disney, I would have to say I was in the minority in my age group.

 

[JeffH]

"Walt was very involved in the development of WDW, and stood on the construction site as the MK was being built. "
Sorry, I meant 'where the MK was to be built'. Walt was very involved in the land purchase and planning of WDW, which WAS the main point to begin with. Walt died 7 months before construction itself began...

" (Walt) Disney directed the purchase of 43 square miles of virgin land - twice the size of Manhattan Island - in the center of the state of Florida. Here, he master planned a whole new Disney World of entertainment, to include a new amusement theme park (MK), motel-hotel resort vacation center (Persian, Venetian, Asian, Poly and Contemporary), an industrial complex (Reedy Creek?), an airport of the future, and his Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow. After more than seven years of master planning and preparation, including 52 months of actual construction, Walt Disney World opened to the public as scheduled on October 1, 1971."

I'm not sure what those quotes from my post had to do with "Rose colored glasses". "Rose colored glasses" are worn by those who think the past was so rosy, which I thornfully showed wasn't.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Box office sales do not make a classic movie. Good scripts, actors and directors do.

If that was the case, then "It's a wonderful life", would never be in our vid cabinets today.

 

[Laurajean1014]

Teens like disney. I see alot of kids out with each other unsupervised. Which is great. The parents are allowing their kids to be kids. Disney offers that.

Who is Jumaji? Another bad movie from US? MIB was good, after the 4th time I saw it. Before that, I felt it pluck away at my brain cells.

As for MIB (the ride). They should have left it in the black..................Yuck.

Buzz Lightyear ride rocks! I see people go on it 3 to 4 times consecutively. Haven't yet seen someone do the MIB ride back to back!

Remember, there would be no US if it wasn't for WDW and DL!

 

[johare]

Remember, there would be no US if it wasn't for WDW and DL!

Really? You don't think anyone else would have come up with the idea for a well themed family amusement park if it wasn't for DL and WDW? I was surprised that you actually thought Buzz was better than MIB...until I read this comment.

 

[F.C. Fan]

Actually you couldn't be any more wrong about people not re-riding M.I.B. unless you're at the park with a large group of people, alot of people just get back in the single riders line and are back on and shooting within 10 mins or less.

Actually I was referring to Jumanji the animated show (not the movie) to compare it's animation style to Men in Black's( neither of which I personally care for.

I nor anyone else has ever said that Disney didn't revolutionize theme parks, but if you want to get technical about it. If it were not for the man who started and built Cypress Gardens( I think his last name was Pope) there would be no WDW where it now sits, since a good portion of the land was nothing more than a swamp, and thanks to him teaching, or lending his ideas, metheods, and equipment to Walt and Roy Disney to clear their newly aquired swamp land. He also helped the Disney brothers out in the horticulture growing and landscaping dept. with some of his metheods for the park as well.

You could go and on for years well this guy did this, and that guy did that, and this woman did this, and so on and so on. My point is that Disney is not the only game in town and that's good for everyone cause no matter which company's parks you like the competiton between them all gives us beter quality parks in the long run.

 

[YoHo]

Considering that Disneyland had been built for 15 years and was a horticultural dream, I wonder just how much the founder of Cypress gardens really helped. Oh not that he didn't help at all, but its not like Disney was ignorant in those areas.

 

[johare]

I wouldn't disagree with that entirely...Cypress Gardens probably had some good information on how things should be done in Central Florida, but I'm sure WDW could have been built without their help.

However, it's no more ridiculous to say that there would be no WDW without Cypress Gardens than it is to say that UF wouldn't exist if it wasn't for Disney. Universal could have built USF and IOA even if WDW never existed. Saying that we wouldn't have any decent theme parks without Disney is like saying that we wouldn't have operating systems for our computers without Microsoft.

 

[YoHo]

Uh, except that Walt Disney came up with the concept of the Theme park, so it is not rediculous.


The microsoft allusion is false, since no one group invented the Operating system.

One man invented the Theme park.

 

[F.C. Fan]

YoHo

Actually Cypress Gardens has been around since 1936 so that's a little before Mr. Disney's giant step into the attractions arena with DL.

California and Florida are a little different when it comes to weather.
As you know Florida is very tropical and that's part of the reason the Disney brothers met with the Cypress Gardens founder he'd been growing beautiful plants and flowers before they even got into the park business. Another reason they met with him was that he had already tackled and conquered how to turn a swamp into usable land for an attraction successfully. I'll admit that the CG accomplishment was no where near the scale of the task ahead of the Disney brothers, but had still been done first.

Also about the there wouldn't be any US if it weren't for Disney.
I might be wrong(and if I am then this thought will be inncorrect) but wasn't it US that stole Mr Disney's character Waldo the rabbit?
inwhich turn led him to draw and create the world's most recognizable mouse??? The 1 the only Mickey Mouse.
If my memory was correct(and that's a big IF) then without Mickey wouldn't it have been would have been a lot tougher sailing for Mr. Disney and most of his brilliant accomplishments.
Remember this all started with a mouse???

One more thing isn't the words theme park just a name thought more recently given to amusement parks. Growing up I never heard or referred to Disney, Sea World, and any other of the parks as theme parks. I can't exactly place the time when they started calling them that, but it definitely was more recent.

 

[hopemax]

I might be wrong(and if I am then this thought will be inncorrect) but wasn't it US that stole Mr Disney's character Waldo the rabbit?

Well, it was Oswald the Rabbit, not Waldo, but yes it was Charlie Mintz and Universal Pictures.