Food for Thought - Political Thread

[peachgirl]

Actually you can Elliot to the list of those who can't be believed. He was the one who says he meant it, then whoops, no he didn't, then well yeah, but they made me do it and then, least in the latest version of his story I can remember he turns around and says he was "mis-quoted" he did say it and mean it after all.

I guess this was a multiple choice test and I just didn't know it.

It will take time to prove the remainder either to be not involved or flat out lying....

After all, every single one of them refuses to make their military records public so that the truth can be uncovered. The media is having to force them to and that takes time.

Their hope I suppose is that it will take long enough that the damage will already have been done by the time their exposed.

In the meantime, they're getting rich off their book. Scum??? Yea, I think I had it right the first time.

 

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by peachgirl
Actually you can Elliot to the list of those who can't be believed. He was the one who says he meant it, then whoops, no he didn't, then well yeah, but they made me do it and then, least in the latest version of his story I can remember he turns around and says he was "mis-quoted" he did say it and mean it after all.

Right, that was in the article by the reporter who swears he didn't write the introduction to the Kerry-Edwards book, even though Amazon says he did. Doesn't count.

 

[peachgirl]

I count 13 affidavits accompanying the original letter.

I've been reading on that site quite a bit and I find it fascinating that there are very, very few that are actually questioning the medals that Kerry received.

A huge majority simply don't like the opinions he expressed when he came home.

Fine, argue that point all day long. But to use his service as a way to pay him back for his actions when he came home is yet another cheap shot.

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[WillyJ]

I just heard Thurlow call in to a show on Fox. . basically he has a citation that says on the day Kerry jumped in and saved the life of the man on his boat and the situation was the result of a confrontation with the enemy. . Thurlow swears there was no enemy fire and that his citation reflects someone taking Kerry's word for the circumstances. .

Thurlow claims he recieved the citation, but "through it in a draw and never looked at it. . and still hasn't. . "


Host John Kacich asked him how he knows the informatin came from Kerry if he hadn't even looked at it. . and he stammered around and said; "I just know. . "

And then Kachich asked him why Kerry and the man he saved said there was enemy fire if there wasn't. . Thurlow said because they are liars. .

Then Kachich asked how sure he was that there was no enemy fire or confrontation that day surrounding Kerry's saving of his fellow soldiers life. . and Thurlow said; "I know because I was there. . I was knocked into the water from my boat and had to be saved myself. . "


So, in order to believe Thurlow you'd have to believe that the soldier on Kerry's boat just fell overboard and had to be saved by Kerry. . and this Thurlow in the same place at the same time went overboard and had to be saved. . and at no time that day did either confront the enemy or enemy fire. . .

And that Thurlow recieved a citation for bravery under fire and never read it. . .


PUUUUUUUUUU. . LLLL. . EEEE. . SSSSS. .EEEEE. . . !!!


My goodness, how lame do these lies have to be in order for all sane people to admit they are nothing but a disgusting smear?


And having a problem with Kerry's statements after he came home or Kerry making his sevice a main part of his campaign does not give anyone the right to make up lies about his service!!

And Bush sent his stooge out to call for an end to all soft money ads; he didn't condemn the ad and ask the "Swift Boat Scumbags" to stop running it. . Kerry condemned the MoveOn ad and asked them to stop running it. .



Oh, and hi TeeJay!


They find those WMD's yet?

 

[Peter Pirate]

Seriously, are ANY of you republicans really buying this crap? Tell me you're just playing devils advocate...Please...

 

[WillyJ]

I heard from a reliable sourse that Chris Matthews ripped Thurlow apart like a chicken on Hardball tonight and took a couple other of the "Un-Swift Bushies" to the mat as well. .

The re-run is at 11pm EST tonight . . can't wait to see it!!

 

[treesinger]

Originally posted by peachgirl
I've been reading on that site quite a bit and I find it fascinating that there are very, very few that are actually questioning the medals that Kerry received.

A huge majority simply don't like the opinions he expressed when he came home.

Fine, argue that point all day long. But to use his service as a way to pay him back for his actions when he came home is yet another cheap shot.

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I'm one of the few Bushies who actually despise what the SBVT people are doing. I agree with your assessment that the disagreement is almost completely because of his statements after his tour. I even have to turn off Hannity for extended stretches now because he can really carry on with the SBVT stuff. And I'm an avid listener.

 

[WillyJ]

Thank you for your post Jason. I admire your candor and appreciate it.

 

[Teejay32]

Originally posted by WillyJ
Oh, and hi TeeJay!


They find those WMD's yet?

Yeah, the one named Saddam. Wink, bounce, wink....

Originally posted by Peter Pirate
Seriously, are ANY of you republicans really buying this crap? Tell me you're just playing devils advocate...Please...

Other than what I've posted, I have no idea what's going on. Kerry says it's a front for the Bush campaign. Mmmkay...

 

[peachgirl]

Kerry says it's a front for the Bush campaign

No he didn't. I just got through listening to his speech. He said that President Bush said that he wouldn't criticize Kerry's service but was willing to stand by while a group that was funded by Republicans did that very thing.

He did not say they were a front for Bush and I would think at some point the lies would stop and a discussion of the issues could begin.

But, probably not.


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[Teejay32]

"They're a front for the Bush campaign. And the fact that the president won't denounce them tells you everything you need to know -- he wants them to do his dirty work," Kerry told a cheering crowd.

That's from CNN.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
AGAIN I say to you it has only been claimed that a small handfull of thse men actually served with Kerry. The ones who did are the ones who are being proven to be liars.

Wait...I thought people have been saying for weeks that the liars didn't serve with Kerry...

 

[peachgirl]

Originally posted by Teejay32
That's from CNN.

Well, unlike some people, when I'm wrong I'll admit it. I just saw what was the complete statement on tv and he did say it.

I was wrong and Kerry is right.

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[WillyJ]

Depends on how you define "with". . .


None of them served with Kerry on the boat he was on. . the men who did back the official military record on the incidents.


A few of them served at the same time as Kerry and in the same area. . . the rest just at the same time. . .

If you've seen the ad though, they all use the term; "I served with John Kerry. . " and it is intentionally misleading to say the least. . .




Hmmm.. may have to go back and find those old threads Tee. . but I don't recall Saddam being your definition of the "WMD's" back then. .

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by Teejay32
I have no idea what's going on.

With you on that, Teejay.

I did read the whole Post article--the vet claims the citations were given based on Kerry's report about what happened. If it can be proven that Thurlow made the report, certainly he's a liar. The Post said that of all the boat captains that day, only Kerry says there was gunfire--I dunno. The fog of war, it's hard to say.

I did hear something about Kerry's campaign admitting he wasn't in Cambodia--anyone else hear this?

I have no doubt that the vets are motivated in large part by Kerry's actions after the war. I think a lot of people get that.

But I think what people overlook is the nuance of the political expediency in what he did. And that's where the bitterness comes from. I think they see what he did as a means to a political end. That's a much deeper betrayal.

My question about Cambodia supports this--if he did lie about that, truly he wasn't just speaking out from his heart against these wartime atrocities. There was a political calculation--he said he was in Cambodia to make a political point against the administration.

I don't find his war record, good or bad, to be anything to base a vote on. Even if the worst of what the vets said was true, which I don't believe will turn out to be the case, I wouldn't base a vote on that.

What concerns me is the lifetime pattern of political expediency. Putting out there what he thinks the voters in that audience want to hear. And then managing to explain it away when confronted with the divergent themes. I mean, when he's saying something sometimes, he really seems to mean exactly that, but then later he backs off and changes it around to say he meant something different.

I have to say I'm wildly curious about how a Kerry presidency will go. He seems to really believe he has tremendous diplomatic skills and will be able to negotiate all these wonderful agreements--that would be great. I'll take it even if the other leaders are doing it just to thumb a nose at Bush. But for goodness sake, hold them to it--particularly North Korea and the Sudan.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by WillyJ
Depends on how you define "with". . .


None of them served with Kerry on the boat he was on. . the men who did back the official military record on the incidents.


A few of them served at the same time as Kerry and in the same area. . . the rest just at the same time. . .

If you've seen the ad though, they all use the term; "I served with John Kerry. . " and it is intentionally misleading to say the least. . .

For weeks people have said that the SBV didn't serve with Kerry and that plays into discrediting them.

Now we're hearing that the only SBV who count are being discredited and they count because they served with Kerry.

You're right--it does just seem to depend.

 

[Teejay32]

But it's not only that he made charges against "soldiers" - he implicated his own units and everyone he served with. I think I know what's going on now. Forget the Bush conspiracy stuff - John O'Neill has been saying the same thing for 30 years. Kerry made statements to the press back then in which he described atrocities that he actually took part in...destroying villages, killing civilians, etc. O'Neill and others who served with him immediately took offense and challenged him to prove those charges. Kerry wouldn't and it fades into the background over time.

It comes up again as Kerry is seeking the Democratic nomination, he distances himself from the charges he made earlier, saying he was "over the top" and whatever else. The other guys don't think this is quite good enough. And so here we are now, with those same people.

That's my .02

Originally posted by WillyJ
Hmmm.. may have to go back and find those old threads Tee. . but I don't recall Saddam being your definition of the "WMD's" back then. .

I have no objections. Just have someone else do it.

 

[kbeverina]

Originally posted by Teejay32
John O'Neill has been saying the same thing for 30 years. Kerry made statements to the press back then in which he described atrocities that he actually took part in...destroying villages, killing civilians, etc. O'Neill and others who served with him immediately took offense and challenged him to prove those charges.

Right--as I've said before, I don't think this is about politics for the vets--I saw a clip of Kerry and O'Neill debating this way back when. I think they're taking money from people who are in it for the politics, but the vets themselves aren't. Not saying that makes them more credible. Just my take on it.

 

[Teejay32]

There are some disputing how he got his medals though. I lost my appetite for discussion reading that stuff. Then I saw the CNN quote that it's all a front for the Bush campaign.

The DB would look like it was on crank today, if it was open.

 

[kbeverina]

Crank is going to sound really good in about two months.

Who am I kidding, it sounds good now.