Flying with children?

[maxiesmom]

But they do. You read stories about it all the time - about child suicide bombers. It's considered a godly act.

I hate to say it but I do think we need to start profiling - depending on the decency of another culture isn't going to work for us long term.

I think you have misunderstood my post. I know they will use children, if they so choose. And the USA coming out and saying there is ANY group they won't scan is the perfect opportunity to use that group as a weapon.

As far as the pat down being uncomfortable, I can see that it is. But I would rather be uncomfortable for a moment then maybe blown up and dead. Uncomfortable is always a better option than dead.

 

[clanmcculloch]

‘Furious’ Chaffetz pushes ban on patting down minors

The Salt Lake Tribune

Apr 14, 2011 02:59PM

Washington • After his 15-year-old daughter was whisked away from her mother for a pat down at Ronald Reagan International Airport, Rep. Jason Chaffetz says he’s had enough and introduced legislation this week to bar pat downs of minors without parental consent.

Chaffetz, the chairman of an Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee overseeing the TSA, says his wife and two daughters were flying back to Utah from Washington a few weeks ago when they refused to go through whole-body imaging machines, which the congressman has railed against as intrusive.

Click through for the rest

So let me get this straight. Rep. Chaffetz is the chairman of an Oversight and Government Reform subcommittee overseeing the TSA. Clearly he and his family knew that in order to fly each individual has to either go through the scan are subject themselves to a patdown. They refused the scan. Now he's upset that his kids had to undergo the patdown? Is it just me or does this scream publicity stunt at the expense of his kids?

I do agree that a request for a parent to stay with a minor child should ALWAYS be granted. The article doesn't say that his wife asked to stay with her. It just says that she was occupied with her own screening. They knew they'd all get a pat down. How is it possible to NOT ask? How about some personal responsibility?

 

[iheartdisney]

Then maybe the parents should have done a better job of reassuring her, and letting her know what was going on. And parent worthy of the title knows that the more calm you stay the more calm your child stays. You don't amp things up and make them worse. Unless your child is not your primary consideration, but taping the TSA is.

You have to live under a rock to not know about the enhanced screenings. A parent shouldn't be ready to roll tape trying to catch the TSA doing something wrong, but should be standing there ready to reassure their little one.

Or if you really object the screenings then find another way to get where you want to go.

By no means do i live under a rock, and all I have ever heard was having the choice between the scan OR the patdown, not both, which is what happened in this girl's case. She was rubbed down AFTER being scanned, which is why the mom was asking "Why can't you just rescan her?"

 

[CPT Tripss]

But they do. You read stories about it all the time - about child suicide bombers. It's considered a godly act.

I hate to say it but I do think we need to start profiling - depending on the decency of another culture isn't going to work for us long term.

The Godly young bombers must be running amok . . . here's another. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-mother-outraged-over-TSA-screening-119816969.html

 

[lost*in*cyberspace]

By no means do i live under a rock, and all I have ever heard was having the choice between the scan OR the patdown, not both,

Sometimes you do not have a choice. I have had a patdown both after going through xray and the new scanners. And I never set off the xray machine, nor have anything suspicious on my body.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Scanning only people over a certain age at the airport does nothing to keep us safe at all. We either need totally random screening, or a way to profile. And we all know profiling is never going to happen. There is nothing "decent" about terroists. We cannot hope they have a shred of decency and would not use a child to do their dirty work.

Do you think that everyone that enters into the "secure area" of an airport should be screened before entering?

 

[maxiesmom]

By no means do i live under a rock, and all I have ever heard was having the choice between the scan OR the patdown, not both, which is what happened in this girl's case. She was rubbed down AFTER being scanned, which is why the mom was asking "Why can't you just rescan her?"

I have read that if you move too much, the scanner will not read correctly, and you are then subject to a pat down.

I know in my home airport they only give you 2 shots with the metal detector, and then you are wanded. Maybe because of the uproar about radiation they have decided to only do the scan one time, and then if you fail it for whatever reason they are doing the pat down.

Do I think everyone in the secure area should be scanned? I actually think yes. But I know before I fly that that is not what they do, so I am making the choice to be ok with what they are doing. If I ever became too disturbed over security clearance, wether too much for not enough, I would just not fly.

 

[kaffinito]

I think you have misunderstood my post. I know they will use children, if they so choose. And the USA coming out and saying there is ANY group they won't scan is the perfect opportunity to use that group as a weapon.As far as the pat down being uncomfortable, I can see that it is. But I would rather be uncomfortable for a moment then maybe blown up and dead. Uncomfortable is always a better option than dead.

Actually I agreed with your post - I just went off on a little tangent of my own. Sorry I didn't respond to your post a little more "on point" I just started thinking about child bombers and went off from there.

I've agreed with all of your points, and think you have some very good points, especially the bolded part above.

The Godly young bombers must be running amok . . . here's another. http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-mother-outraged-over-TSA-screening-119816969.html

There are going to be parents who are upset that someone they don't know is touching their child. And adults who are upset by being touched during a screening.

But I would much rather have those security methods in place than not have them at all.

And for what it's worth, both my kids caught a flight to Dallas this afternoon. The oldest had an enhanced pat down - which he knew was going to happen, and the youngest didn't. They are both high functioning ASD and they both did just fine.

 

[PatsMom]

I don't see a problem with the pat down I saw on the video. I would not be upset if my child failed the screening and was subject to pat down in the same way. My own daughter is 19 and knows all about the screenings. We travelled with my niece who is 8 last September. Her mother is a nervous wreck and had never flown either. She had to take Valium just to walk into the airport.

We prepared the 8 year old by explaining about security. We also told her that we were sending her mother through first, then my husband (who never has a problem). Then the child who was told to go to where her mother or uncle were. And if the TSA stopped her and asked her for anything that Uncle or Mom would be right there and would be staying with her. She should just do as she was told and all would be well - the people in uniform had a job to do.

I went last and she was prepared for me to be taken aside and patted down. I travel with liquid medications, needles, ice packs and set off the metal detectors at our local airport due to extensive repairs to my leg and jaw. I always get a pat down! We didn't want her to be scared that I was being arrested or was in trouble for something.

Children who are prepared should do just fine with screening. Children with a parent tossing a fit are apt to get upset. JMHO.

 

[CPT Tripss]

I have read that if you move too much, the scanner will not read correctly, and you are then subject to a pat down. I know in my home airport they only give you 2 shots with the metal detector, and then you are wanded. Maybe because of the uproar about radiation they have decided to only do the scan one time, and then if you fail it for whatever reason they are doing the pat down.

Do I think everyone in the secure area should be scanned? I actually think yes. But I know before I fly that that is not what they do, so I am making the choice to be ok with what they are doing. If I ever became too disturbed over security clearance, wether too much for not enough, I would just not fly.

That seems to be a problem for a fair number of small kids.

As far as screening ALL, TSAers get no screening transiting the secure area before their shift and after breaks and the employees of concessions inside the secure area get only cursory screening.

"As travelers, you shouldn't have to check your dignity at the security gate. We shouldn't have to choose between two undesirable options, which unfortunately are the only options for travelers nowadays." Chris Calabrese, legislative counsel, ACLU . . .

 

[N965VJ]

I know in my home airport they only give you 2 shots with the metal detector, and then you are wanded.

The hand held metal detectors have been phased out. That's the plan for the WTMDs as well. The TSA lied about the Nude-O-Scopes not being used for primary screening.

And the USA coming out and saying there is ANY group they won't scan is the perfect opportunity to use that group as a weapon.

TSA employees, airline employees, and airport workers can airport workers can all bypass the checkpoint for administrative convenience. Members of these groups have been caught bringing weapons such as firearms into the sterile area.

 

[N965VJ]

But I would much rather have those security methods in place than not have them at all.

I've never advocated no screening at all. Security Theatre is another story.

 

[StephC1217]

We allow doctors, nurses, and other "strangers" to "grope" our children everyday. Should children not go to the doctor or the hospital because it may be "uncomfortable". No. We allow our children, as well as ourselves, to be checked over by people we do not know because for safety reasons and because it is in their best interest. We dont bring our child to the doctor, videotape them and then post it on You-Tube. Instead, most parents would explain exactly what is going to happen and try to help our children through what is an uncomfortable process. Kids do not like going to the hospital, may ask not to, may cry and yell when the doctors try to touch them, but we insist because it is in their best interest. Why is this so different? Kudos to the PP who said uncomfortable is always a better option than dead. If you do not agree than you do not have to fly. And to the person who said not to allow it on your child until you yourself have experienced the uncomfortabliity. Well, as a parent, there are uncomfortable experiences everyday that children go through that we may not have had to, especially for health reasons. My son has had to have medical testing done that I never have. Just because I havent experienced it doesnt mean i wouldnt allow my son to go through it. It is not like the TSA workers are bringing the child into a dark, secluded area without the parents. It is done in the public. Do i hope that my child has to go through this? Absolutely not. But if they have to, then I am ok with it because it is for everyone's safety, including my son.

 

[CPT Tripss]

Equating an Airport Security Screener to a physician, nurse or other medical professional is a bit of a stretch. About the only thing they have in common is rubber gloves.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Yes, sir!

How about this? PREPARE your children for any new or unfamiliar situation. Tell them what might happen and why - not to scare them, but to have them ready. Explain the most likely scenario but also that this or that may occur instead; in the case of airport security let them know you'll be right with them (or they with you - remember, adults are FAR more likely to undergo more intensive screening).

Or are you the parent who says, "C'mon kids, let's go for a ride!", and the next thing - surprise! - they find themselves in the dentist's chair?

 

[revdon64]

Well for those of you willing to forfeit your privacy and your dignity for a false sense of security, step right up and get patted down. But honestly, did a six year old girl flying on vacation with her parents hijack a plane and fly it into the pentagon? Did a ninety five year old grand mom traveling to visit family hijack her plane to Cuba? Profiling! It's the only answer that makes any sense. Anyone ever flown on El-Al (the national airline of Israel)? They don't have this kind of issue with passengers and when you get a steak dinner on the plane they give you a steak knife to cut your meat! Wanna know why? They profile every person getting on the plane. "Where are you flying to? For what reason? Who are you tavelling with?" Guess who never gets on an El-Al airplane. A terrorist! Wake up people. These are your God-given rights that you're throwing away in the name of security measures that do nothing to prevent terrorists. In fact, just by making us give up our rights and causing us to fly and live in fear, the terrorists have already won more than they ever planned to. Really, if this doesn't make you angry, especially if you have small children then you need a history lesson. Start with Germany circa 1925 and forward.

 

[iheartdisney]

Well for those of you willing to forfeit your privacy and your dignity for a false sense of security, step right up and get patted down. But honestly, did a six year old girl flying on vacation with her parents hijack a plane and fly it into the pentagon? Did a ninety five year old grand mom traveling to visit family hijack her plane to Cuba? Profiling! It's the only answer that makes any sense. Anyone ever flown on El-Al (the national airline of Israel)? They don't have this kind of issue with passengers and when you get a steak dinner on the plane they give you a steak knife to cut your meat! Wanna know why? They profile every person getting on the plane. "Where are you flying to? For what reason? Who are you tavelling with?" Guess who never gets on an El-Al airplane. A terrorist! Wake up people. These are your God-given rights that you're throwing away in the name of security measures that do nothing to prevent terrorists. In fact, just by making us give up our rights and causing us to fly and live in fear, the terrorists have already won more than they ever planned to. Really, if this doesn't make you angry, especially if you have small children then you need a history lesson. Start with Germany circa 1925 and forward.

Ditto!

 

[kaytieeldr]

Well for those of you willing to forfeit your privacy and your dignity for a false sense of security, step right up and get patted down. But honestly, did a six year old girl flying on vacation with her parents hijack a plane and fly it into the pentagon? Did a ninety five year old grand mom traveling to visit family hijack her plane to Cuba? Profiling! It's the only answer that makes any sense. Anyone ever flown on El-Al (the national airline of Israel)? They don't have this kind of issue with passengers and when you get a steak dinner on the plane they give you a steak knife to cut your meat! Wanna know why? They profile every person getting on the plane. "Where are you flying to? For what reason? Who are you tavelling with?" Guess who never gets on an El-Al airplane. A terrorist! Wake up people. These are your God-given rights that you're throwing away in the name of security measures that do nothing to prevent terrorists. In fact, just by making us give up our rights and causing us to fly and live in fear, the terrorists have already won more than they ever planned to. Really, if this doesn't make you angry, especially if you have small children then you need a history lesson. Start with Germany circa 1925 and forward.

Do you read what you write? You start off complaining that a six year old girl or an elderly grandmother weren't the ones who crashed planes into buildings on 9/11, so we should profile, and search the type of people who did (despite numerous explanations in this thread and a similar one on the Community Board why that won't work).

Then you bring up El-Al and point out that they profile everyone. You can't have it both ways. Have you researched Israel's airports? Do you know how much less traffic each of their many fewer airports handles? Are you aware that passengers are required to arrive several hours early, and that the military personnel checking each potential passenger don't care if you miss your flight? Did you know the inspection starts as you drive into the airport? They can refuse to let you fly for any number of reasons. In Israel, every passenger is guilty until proven innocent.

Can you see that working in the United States, home of the self-entitled "I know I'm trustworthy and would never do anything like that, you simply must believe me because I'm me!" population?

 

[maxiesmom]

Well for those of you willing to forfeit your privacy and your dignity for a false sense of security, step right up and get patted down. But honestly, did a six year old girl flying on vacation with her parents hijack a plane and fly it into the pentagon? Did a ninety five year old grand mom traveling to visit family hijack her plane to Cuba? Profiling! It's the only answer that makes any sense. Anyone ever flown on El-Al (the national airline of Israel)? They don't have this kind of issue with passengers and when you get a steak dinner on the plane they give you a steak knife to cut your meat! Wanna know why? They profile every person getting on the plane. "Where are you flying to? For what reason? Who are you tavelling with?" Guess who never gets on an El-Al airplane. A terrorist! Wake up people. These are your God-given rights that you're throwing away in the name of security measures that do nothing to prevent terrorists. In fact, just by making us give up our rights and causing us to fly and live in fear, the terrorists have already won more than they ever planned to. Really, if this doesn't make you angry, especially if you have small children then you need a history lesson. Start with Germany circa 1925 and forward.

So are you against any type of screening, because screening means "the terrorists have already one!'? Or is it just this screening, because it bothers YOU? Maybe the wtmd bother someone else, does that mean we should shut them down? Or just the type of secutity checks that makes you uncomfortable?

 

[eliza61]

Do you read what you write? You start off complaining that a six year old girl or an elderly grandmother weren't the ones who crashed planes into buildings on 9/11, so we should profile, and search the type of people who did (despite numerous explanations in this thread and a similar one on the Community Board why that won't work).

Then you bring up El-Al and point out that they profile everyone. You can't have it both ways. Have you researched Israel's airports? Do you know how much less traffic each of their many fewer airports handles? Are you aware that passengers are required to arrive several hours early, and that the military personnel checking each potential passenger don't care if you miss your flight? Did you know the inspection starts as you drive into the airport? They can refuse to let you fly for any number of reasons. In Israel, every passenger is guilty until proven innocent.

Can you see that working in the United States, home of the self-entitled "I know I'm trustworthy and would never do anything like that, you simply must believe me because I'm me!" population?

LOL, Of course they want it both ways. So as a member of the african american population that will be the ones who get racially profiled, damn right I wont let it happen.

I love the poster who throw up history and the founding fathers who convienently forget the fact that pretty much this country was founded on principals we never ever upheld.
What's even more hysterical is that all supposedly all these evil tsa agents who are supposedly raping and groping people are the same ones who supposedly are going to profile correctly.

So watched the video, definitely didn't see any child molestation going on, sorry to disappoint you. Saw a little girl afraid of some thing new. oooh, how shocking.

I'm sure next week we'll have a new "evil empire" story. I'll stay tuned.