Fifth Park Theme?

[WDW_lover_in_SC]

I would hate to see a marvel park, personally. This is coming from someone who grew up close to Six Flags Great Adventure which is all super hero themed (trashy park). I know it wouldn't be trashy lol, I'm just personally sick of them.

Disney COULD use some more boy marketing to challenge Universal, but I don't think they need it since 10 little girls will buy princess costumes for every one boy that would whine enough to be in a super hero costume.

My vote would go to Disney Sea as well. Not that I think it would happen that's just what I would personally like haha.

That's odd because Six Flags Over Georgia is nice. But anyways a 5th park will come one day but Disney will have to find the inspiration. As of right now I would put my money on "Sea" also. It could hurt Sea World if they did do this which is what Disney should be trying to do.

 

[Melpuff]

That's odd because Six Flags Over Georgia is nice. But anyways a 5th park will come one day but Disney will have to find the inspiration. As of right now I would put my money on "Sea" also. It could hurt Sea World if they did do this which is what Disney should be trying to do.

Well mostly I think it has to do with it's proximity to NYC. There's a bus from Port Authority that goes RIGHT to Six Flags only. I mean it's nice rides but when people ask me why I don't go to Universal it cites my reason- I go to Disney for experience not thrills, Six Flags is around the corner anyway.

I think taking a stab at Sea World would be much easier than Universal. I don't think Disney cares about Universal so much because it's nothing they have any interest putting money into (the big thrill rides). A Disney "Sea World" would compliment Animal Kingdom nicely too. I would love to see a "Disney Sea" meets "Atlantis". That resort is SO COOL and so fun, and an aquarium water park.

 

[WDW_lover_in_SC]

The main reason Disney won't go after Universal is because there's nothing to go after. I'm willing to bet a majority of people who go to Universal go to Disney also. Sea World offers up something different that WDW doesn't have. So I agree if the were pushed to open a 5th gate for some reason it would be a Sea type of place.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

The main reason Disney won't go after Universal is because there's nothing to go after. I'm willing to bet a majority of people who go to Universal go to Disney also. Sea World offers up something different that WDW doesn't have. So I agree if the were pushed to open a 5th gate for some reason it would be a Sea type of place.

Disney has no interest in the Sea World market (I know this for a fact). They are generally unhappy they ventured into AK with all of the on going overhead and libility such a park brings. They absolutely do not want anymore interaction with live animals or on going costs associated with Zoo like experiences.

 

[skier_pete]

There will not be a 5th park in the next 10 years, and quite possibly never.

Here's why...the average vacationer if going to spend 7 to 10 days in Central Florida - yes some people stay longer, especially folks from foreign lands, but the strong majority spends that amount of time.

Right now - it is quite easy to fill up that 7 to 10 days with all things Disney, though many people do other things as well (Universal, Sea World, Cape Canaveral).

If Disney expands further with another park, people won't expand their vacation time. They MAY spend more time at Disney, but those that want to go to Universal/Sea World will still go.

Therefore, a 5th gate will, for the most part, will mostly be self-cannabilizing to Disney. It will take away people from the other parks. So, the only way you need that 5th gate is if you want to accomodate more people in general at Disney World, not to get people to stay longer. And the billions of dollars it would take to open a new park would be much more efficiently spent to expand the existing parks...which would still increase capacity without the huge infrastructure costs of Building another theme park.

The ONLY logical 5th park concept for Disney is the "Night Kingdom" concept....modeled after Sea World's Discovery Cove. A small park with a high-price that while it wouldn't get people to add a day on to their Disney vacation, it WOULD get them to spend $200+ extra for that day. The small footprint on the park would limit start-up costs, and the income would be justifiable.

That said, Disney had plans for Night Kingdom...then they downsized the plans...then they scrapped it completely. Tells me they are in no hurry for that 5th gate.

BTW...The whole Reedy Creek report you refer to said the same thing 10 years ago - a 5th gate in 5 to 10 years....this is a CYA move in case they ever decide to put one in.

And really...shouldn't we call it a 7th gate? Because WDW really has 6 theme parks. A Night Kingdom concept park would be of similar size to the existing water parks.

A villians park is never going to happen. Neither is a Marvel Park.

 

[ChrisFL]

That's odd because Six Flags Over Georgia is nice. But anyways a 5th park will come one day but Disney will have to find the inspiration. As of right now I would put my money on "Sea" also. It could hurt Sea World if they did do this which is what Disney should be trying to do.

Well DisneySea and SeaWorld are polar opposites as far as theming...

Sea World is focused on marine life, but DisneySea has nothing to do with marine life and instead is themed around historical ports for sea travel

 

[fannatic]

There will definately be a 5th park within the next 10 years. We can see that attendance is only rising a small percentage each year. The only time that WDW sees a huge increase in attendance is when a new park is open. I've had people tell me that they're done with WDW because there is never anything new. They've done all of the parks and feel that they have seen it all. Not everyone wants to go and see the same attractions year after year. The only way for Disney to reach out to guests who have lost interest is by opening a major new gate. With each new park Disney has added millions of new guests. The only way to sustain that kind of growth is to reinvent themselves with major new attractions. - The Night Kingdom concept was killed for two reasons 1. the Great Recession and 2. polled guests hated the idea. The recession is officially over. Disney projects a more substantial increase in attendance in 2011. They're running out of excuses to not start on the 5th park.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

There will not be a 5th park in the next 10 years, and quite possibly never.

Here's why...the average vacationer if going to spend 7 to 10 days in Central Florida - yes some people stay longer, especially folks from foreign lands, but the strong majority spends that amount of time.

Right now - it is quite easy to fill up that 7 to 10 days with all things Disney, though many people do other things as well (Universal, Sea World, Cape Canaveral).

If Disney expands further with another park, people won't expand their vacation time. They MAY spend more time at Disney, but those that want to go to Universal/Sea World will still go.

Therefore, a 5th gate will, for the most part, will mostly be self-cannabilizing to Disney. It will take away people from the other parks. So, the only way you need that 5th gate is if you want to accomodate more people in general at Disney World, not to get people to stay longer. And the billions of dollars it would take to open a new park would be much more efficiently spent to expand the existing parks...which would still increase capacity without the huge infrastructure costs of Building another theme park.

The ONLY logical 5th park concept for Disney is the "Night Kingdom" concept....modeled after Sea World's Discovery Cove. A small park with a high-price that while it wouldn't get people to add a day on to their Disney vacation, it WOULD get them to spend $200+ extra for that day. The small footprint on the park would limit start-up costs, and the income would be justifiable.

That said, Disney had plans for Night Kingdom...then they downsized the plans...then they scrapped it completely. Tells me they are in no hurry for that 5th gate.

BTW...The whole Reedy Creek report you refer to said the same thing 10 years ago - a 5th gate in 5 to 10 years....this is a CYA move in case they ever decide to put one in.

And really...shouldn't we call it a 7th gate? Because WDW really has 6 theme parks. A Night Kingdom concept park would be of similar size to the existing water parks.

A villians park is never going to happen. Neither is a Marvel Park.

Good post. I agree we will never see a 5th gate for all of the reasons you illuminated. That doesn't mean they won't continue to test the waters and dangle the carrot in our faces (that's just good marketing) but honestly the 5th park, it's just simply illogical with the current parks in so much need of improvement.

 

[fannatic]

The reason that I started this thread was not to argue the fact that there will be a 5th park, it is to let people tell of rumors about the theme of the 5th park. Feel free to fill us in.

 

[WDW_lover_in_SC]

Disney has no interest in the Sea World market (I know this for a fact). They are generally unhappy they ventured into AK with all of the on going overhead and libility such a park brings. They absolutely do not want anymore interaction with live animals or on going costs associated with Zoo like experiences.

I'm not saying this is what Disney should/will or are thinking about. I just meant it as if they were forced to hurry and open one for some reason this would stick out due to rivalry with other nearby parks. Either that or some kind of thrill park which I would love to see what the Imagineers could do with an actual roller coaster park! But still that being said I don't think these will happen. Just throwing them out there for fun.

Well DisneySea and SeaWorld are polar opposites as far as theming...

Sea World is focused on marine life, but DisneySea has nothing to do with marine life and instead is themed around historical ports for sea travel

Ah I've never been to DisneySea so I wasn't sure.

 

[skiingfast]

I doubt Disney is unhappy with AK because of the overhead that live animals added. It is still a polular park and they have added to it since they discovered that animals eat. If they didn't like that they would get rid of the Safari.

At AK I'm more surpised that EE was built. That blank area of the park is where I expected another land to go. I would think that a ocean or aurstralia theme would of fit the bill. Of course it could sit on the West side of the park and the back of house facilities moved.

I also think DHS needs to spread out and be added it to. It's succesful but you can see it all in a day. Also it's reliance on movies causes it to get dated easily. Star Wars was pretty old until they made more. But Honey I shrunk the kids? I also would like them to have another fast attraction aka roller coaster. They could get rid of the actual studios. That was more an attempt to make media there for the sake of saying they could. A claim Universal studios in Berbank truly can make.

Making a 5th gate may need visits to the former three parks to be close to MK. At the DLR 3rd gate rumors have been around for about 20 years. Since they learned of plans for a 2nd gate. Resort official have stated that their current priorities is to raise attendance in 2nd park and then expand the crowded DL. All along this time their biggest concern has been parking spaces.

I would think that a fifth gate as in one park a day nests well in a week long trip. But I would like to see data on the average stay and average ticket length to see if what sounds right is actualy true.

 

[Lewisc]

Disney has no interest in the Sea World market (I know this for a fact). They are generally unhappy they ventured into AK with all of the on going overhead and libility such a park brings. They absolutely do not want anymore interaction with live animals or on going costs associated with Zoo like experiences.

Rumor has it that after the resulting drop in business after 9-11 Disney was considering not opening every park 7 days a week. Disney discovered there would be very little cost savings in closing AK for a day. The cost to feed the animals and the salaries of the CMs who take care of the animals is incurred even if the park is closed.

=============
Disney hired people from zoos. I'm sure they were planning on feeding the animals. Your comment was neither informative nor funny. You can't keep it as an animal park but then get rid of the animals (safari). Once Disney realized opening the park 5 days a week wouldn't make sense making the park popular was a given. Reason EE was added.

I thought Disney either got rid of the production at DHS, or all but got rid of it. Most of the newer attractions at DHS aren't linked to specific movies. Tower of Terror, Rock N Roller Coaster Lighst Motor Action. For the most part only the initianl attractions were linked to specific movies. Toy Story Mania doesn't really depend on the popularity of a movie.

People on DIS are the exception. A lot of people only go to WDW once or twice in their lifetime. The question is how many people would visit WDW only if a 5th park is opened. DHS may be a one day park. The point is most people can spend at least two days in either EPCOT or MK. Add a water park, WWoS or mini golf and you're up to 6 days. Enough for a 7 day vacation.

I doubt Disney is unhappy with AK because of the overhead that live animals added. It is still a polular park and they have added to it since they discovered that animals eat. If they didn't like that they would get rid of the Safari.

At AK I'm more surpised that EE was built. That blank area of the park is where I expected another land to go. I would think that a ocean or aurstralia theme would of fit the bill. Of course it could sit on the West side of the park and the back of house facilities moved.

I also think DHS needs to spread out and be added it to. It's succesful but you can see it all in a day. Also it's reliance on movies causes it to get dated easily. Star Wars was pretty old until they made more. But Honey I shrunk the kids? I also would like them to have another fast attraction aka roller coaster. They could get rid of the actual studios. That was more an attempt to make media there for the sake of saying they could. A claim Universal studios in Berbank truly can make.

Making a 5th gate may need visits to the former three parks to be close to MK. At the DLR 3rd gate rumors have been around for about 20 years. Since they learned of plans for a 2nd gate. Resort official have stated that their current priorities is to raise attendance in 2nd park and then expand the crowded DL. All along this time their biggest concern has been parking spaces.

I would think that a fifth gate as in one park a day nests well in a week long trip. But I would like to see data on the average stay and average ticket length to see if what sounds right is actualy true.

 

[Melpuff]

I would support the dreaded "There is going to be a park in my town!" theory before the 5th gate. I agree that it seems silly to add more financially. They are redoing fantasyland....a new park in itself.

How many people would travel to another part of the country to visit something new and Disney? I sure would.

Or a 3rd park for Disneyland. This would make sense since everyone sees it as a quick visit anyway. But that would be a while too since they are already redoing huge parts of CA.

 

[skiingfast]

How many people would travel to another part of the country to visit something new and Disney? I sure would.

QUOTE]

I think almost everyone would since the two US parks are at what could be seen as two corners of the US.

But I doubt this would happen because any new resorts would be built in the eastern part of the US where there are large populations. If you build a new resort in these areas you would suddenly have a lot of guest who used to fly to Orlando stay in a hotel maybe a disney hotel, maybe eat at disney resturaunts who can now drive visit and go home in a day.

Imagine if they built the Disney in America project in Virginia, all the people in the DC and Baltimore areas that could drive there. Plus Phiil and NY are not that far away they might turn into weekend trips instead of a week trip to WDW.

Despite CA being a big state with 10% of the countries population they go to DL not are not making up 10% of the visits to WDW.

 

[Melpuff]

So true.

About 6 months ago my mom sent me about emails about "Disney America" coming to Philadelphia and how I could work there summers between school....only for me to crush her and tell her it was a fake article and that those things have been going around forever.

 

[Minnie321]

What they should do for a 5th theme park is desgin one catering to teen and pre-teen boys. I believe with the Marvel acquisition mixed in with Star Wars, and maybe Indiana Jones and Prince of Persia (and maybe any new Disney action movies in the pipeline that cater to teen and pre-teen boys) Disney's imagineers could create enough rides/attractions to rival Universal's Island of Adventures. I believe that WDW in general, other than a limited amount of major roller-coasters, would benefit immensely from having a thrill-ride-centric theme park. Mix in some younger fare Pixar-theme attactions such as the Incredibles and some classic-Disney villain attractions, and the 5th theme park would be a hit with boys. Of course, Disney would have to overhaul DHS as well by maybe making it more about Pixar and the newer features that Disney has released. (They should also bring back Hunchback of Notre Dame - that is quietly one of my favorite, vastly under-rated Disney movies of all time). Just my two cents.

I agree - I have a teen age son and we were just there a couple of weeks ago - he stood with his arms crossed most of the time - all I could think was oh no - he's gotten too big for Disney. Something for teen boys would be great!

 

[eeyorepixie]

I would like to see the Magical Beast area added to AK...it needs a little more and Dinoland is pathetic....

I am not sure that a new park is needed I just feel that new rides need to be added...just my opinion

Would love to hear more than opinions...any info out there?

 

[Ryansdad0727]

I don't believe that any new Disney park will be built up north. It will need to be opened year around and there is too much snow and ice up north. I vote Texas....

 

[skiingfast]

I don't believe that any new Disney park will be built up north. It will need to be opened year around and there is too much snow and ice up north. I vote Texas....

I don't know about Texas for a new Disney Resort. I think it would be much better being moved North and East. It snows in Paris and Tokyo and those parks operate just fine.

I would guess that somewhere around Missouri and Illinois would be a good spot because it's closer to Dallas and Chicago than either are from Orlando.

I would also say Ohio/Pennsylvania because of it's proximity to the Northeast and Northern Midwest poulations centers.

I see the biggest dilemma of building a new resort in the US being that it will need to compete with WDW. It will require ten thousand acres along a freeway to build a dozen hotels and a few gates.

It would need to get new customers who can't make the longer trip to WDW. It would also need to keep the same revenue a guest who would of gone to WDW would of spent.

I think WDW is more poised for a 5th gate than a new Disney resort, because they keep adding rooms. They would need to stop growth at WDW for 5 or 10 years to build up demand for a new resort elsewhere in the US. But while continually investing in WDW they are more likely to build a fifth gate there.

 

[Lewisc]

I can't see Disney trying to duplicate WDW anywhere else in the United States. Airfare to Orlando is still competitive. Climate would almost certainly dictate a Texas location. Add me to the list of posters who think Disney would cannibalize their existing customers and not much more.

Disney was thinking of putting Disney Quest in cities throughout the United States. It didn't work.

Disney might try to do other projects. Isn't DVC building in Hawaii and in the DC area?

I wonder how well something like Great Wolf Lodge would have worked if it was a Disney operation.

There is a rumor Disney is bidding for the rights to the boat tours around Niagara Falls. I'm not going to take the time to check, this is the rumors and news board. I think it's a fact that Disney is bidding. Is it a reach to think a Disney hotel if Disney wins the bid?

This is nothing more then my personal speculation. Disney has their adventure program. Would it make sense to build Disney hotels near other attractions? Near the Grand Canyon for example. A couple of concessionaires handle tours, housing and restaurants in the various National Parks. Xanterra and one or two others. Is there enough profit for Disney to compete for this market. JMO but that makes more sense then trying to pick another US location for a Disney park.

edited to add--Previously Disney used their "resources" to purchase ABC, Pixar, produce Broadway Shows, purchase rights to Marvel etc. For whatever reason Disney decided not to allocate resources to parks/hotels in additional US locations.

I wonder if Great Wolf Lodge could be bought.