Feel really down as DD4 goes to school and Head says no holidays

[kev kendall]

As a headteacher, please can I add the following:-

My summer holidays are largely spent re-energising myself. I arrive in school at 7:30 and leave at 6 and work from home most nights! The holidays are not paid for. I believe teaching is one of the most stressful jobs and least paid on the professional scales!! So yea - we are lucky to have long breaks - but we work mighily hard too!!!!

Holidays - the other way of looking at it is that if the school marks the absences down as unathorised - are you that bothered. If the child has otherwise perfect attendance then it is unlikely that the authorities will actually prosecute anyway! Best to check with the school's policy - popular schools may have it in their policy to withdraw a child's place if holidays are taken against the school's wishes.

I personally authorise upto 10 days if it's the only opportunity to have the time as a family. Having said that though - education is important!!!

 

[pixiepower04]

It also causes no end of problems when people take their children out of school when their doing SAT's, we've had to accomadate 5 sets of parents during various nights of week as they were away during parents evening. I know not everyone is like that.

Well if your allowed to take YOUR child out of school whilst we're teaching the rest of them why on earth would i take time off my holidays??Also most people get paid for extra time, i work about 42 hours a week and only get paid for 32.5, i do that because things need to be done. I dont get paid for parents evening, induction evenings, the residential im going on with 29 5 year olds this week...i do them so the children in my class have a good quality of school life. I enjoy my job and i knew what i was coming into when i started the job, but it annoys me when they think teachers are having 'all these holidays'. Yeah i am, but im not paid for the either!

Besides i work as a nursery nurse in a school, i probably earn half of what the parents in my class are earning

Stop bringing pay into the equation, if you feel that hard done by qualify as a teacher or get a job that pays you well enough.

I think what Obi was trying to say was that we may only want to take our children out of school for a week but your inset days and training days are more than a week so why is it okay for teachers but not for us.

Also, without trying to cause an argument and whilst I do think that education is important it is not the be all and end all. I missed many days at school because of a bad childhood, being in a childrens home etc but I am a healthy, happy, fairly intelligent 36 year old with two very bright children, a husband who works for the Ambulance Service and I also own my own business.

There is more to life than school and whilst it may not be ideal they do learn many skills when they are away from school that school just cannot teach, they are also able to keep practising their maths, english, geography etc.

I think nursery nurse's do a great job and my kids adore their teachers but there has to be give and take and I don't know about anyone else children but my kids get 'brain tired' about two weeks before the school holidays and end up tetchy and ready for a break.

 

[Danauk]

I do not usually comment on taking children out of school threads but I really feel I need to get a teachers view across here.

In regard to the teacher training days, I personally would not have a problem having them all at once at the start of the new school year, however we are told when we have to have our training days so the decision is out of our hands.

I realise that teachers do seem to have a lot of time off work, and yes I agree that is can be a perk of the job but it is not like we sit at home for the 6 weeks doing nothing. Out of the 6 weeks break I will probably spend 1 week actually in school and a further 2 weeks actually doing school work (planning, looking at the assessment data for my new class and looking at their targets so I can plan my lessons to meet the needs of the targets etc.) I am by no means moaning about my work just pointing out that teaching is a lot more that teaching children in a classrooom from 9am - 3pm. The same is said for half terms, Easter and Christmas breaks. I do end up doing a lot of school work during those times as well.

As for the taking time off school. I teach year 6 so my class have to sit their SATs at the end of the year. The way we are currently expected to teach (and this is set out by the government) for literacy and numeracy is that we teach units in 3 - 5 week blocks. Especially in literacy where we often spend a week studying texts in detail before doing our own writing in a similar style. If you miss the detailed reading week you can not do the written tasks as well as the rest of the class. This is something you can not catch up on.

In previous years I did not mind children taking a week of for holiday with their family. However with the new ways we have to teach children are at a great disadvantage if they miss school. However our school policy still allows children to have 10 days holiday a year.

 

[kev kendall]

There are only 5 inset days a year. In my authority a year ago we had to take them in our holidays - it did not go down well......

 

[emily1982]

Stop bringing pay into the equation, if you feel that hard done by qualify as a teacher or get a job that pays you well enough.

I think what Obi was trying to say was that we may only want to take our children out of school for a week but your inset days and training days are more than a week so why is it okay for teachers but not for us.

Also, without trying to cause an argument and whilst I do think that education is important it is not the be all and end all. I missed many days at school because of a bad childhood, being in a childrens home etc but I am a healthy, happy, fairly intelligent 36 year old with two very bright children, a husband who works for the Ambulance Service and I also own my own business.

There is more to life than school and whilst it may not be ideal they do learn many skills when they are away from school that school just cannot teach, they are also able to keep practising their maths, english, geography etc.

I think nursery nurse's do a great job and my kids adore their teachers but there has to be give and take and I don't know about anyone else children but my kids get 'brain tired' about two weeks before the school holidays and end up tetchy and ready for a break.

I'm bringing pay into the equation because at the end of the day this argument is about money and people going on holidays because it is cheaper during term time. I wouldn't want to train as a teacher as i love my job. Teachers aren't having holidays during inset days, there working!! Their training to teach your children!

 

[tashasdad]

As a headteacher, please can I add the following:-

My summer holidays are largely spent re-energising myself. I arrive in school at 7:30 and leave at 6 and work from home most nights! The holidays are not paid for. I believe teaching is one of the most stressful jobs and least paid on the professional scales!! So yea - we are lucky to have long breaks - but we work mighily hard too!!!!

Holidays - the other way of looking at it is that if the school marks the absences down as unathorised - are you that bothered. If the child has otherwise perfect attendance then it is unlikely that the authorities will actually prosecute anyway! Best to check with the school's policy - popular schools may have it in their policy to withdraw a child's place if holidays are taken against the school's wishes.

I personally authorise upto 10 days if it's the only opportunity to have the time as a family. Having said that though - education is important!!!

I would like to have the chance to spend 6 weeks re-energising myself, however a standard day for myself is 7 till 7, however in my profession (Engineering which at the lower grades has lower pay scales than teaching)
we regularly have to get up at 4.00-5.00 in the morning to get to sites or meetings and are back at 9-10.00 at night (with no overtime payments) We sit in traffic jams or on packed trains travelling the country, working on tighter and tighter deadlines for lower and lower fees with less people entering the industry so staffing is a major problem. We get 20 days holiday a year of which usually 3 have to be saved for Christmas.

Yes teaching is stressful but so are so many other professions, how many Doctors, Nurses, Police and Fire men and women would like 6 weeks to re-energise. I understand that during the 6 weeks you sit at home to plan lessons etc, but you are still sat at home. In addition at a recent parents evening we were talking to a teacher about the summer holidays and she said she gets bored during them as she doesn't have much to do.

I cannot believe the comment that holidays are not paid for, you tell me teachers have 10 weeks unpaid leave a year.

However in the last two weeks of school my DD, who goes into her final year of secondary school has done minimal lessons, we have had two school trips (non-educational), a sports day, DVD watching, Enterprise Day and the final day they finish at lunch.

 

[mark&sue]

This is not about money for us. Both me and DH left school at 16 but have very well paid jobs but because I work with other parents with school age children we all want the same time off work and obviously cannot get it.

It is as simple as that. The whole country can't take the same time off work (apart from teachers!)

We are buying a holiday home in Spain (probably driving our own car) and have DVC points (DVC points are lower in many of our UK school holidays) so accommodation is already paid this is so not about money.



Susan

 

[emily1982]

This is not about money for us. Both me and DH left school at 16 but have very well paid jobs but because I work with other parents with school age children we all want the same time off work and obviously cannot get it.

It is as simple as that. The whole country can't take the same time off work (apart from teachers!)

We are buying a holiday home in Spain (probably driving our own car) and have DVC points (DVC points are lower in many of our UK school holidays) so accommodation is already paid this is so not about money.



Susan

Fair play Sue it might not be for you,im quite sure it is for alot of other people.

I honestly dont have a problem with people taking a few days or a long weekend, but we have children off for a full fortnight.

Also i dont get paid for all my holidays, just the minimum holiday. I've tried getting another job for the summer but as im going in for a few days over the summer to sort classrooms out then ive got some paperwork to do, i couldn't do it.

 

[scottishsue]

YES!

Teachers, like the majority of the workforce should have only 25 days a year off from work, not the months they currently have.

Training days, i.e. extra days out of school cause no end of problems for the families of the children they teach. Come back a week earlier from your 6 week summer holidays and have your training then.

I totally agree with you Obi !! When the rest of the country get 25 days PER YEAR, why do teachers have to have 30 in the summer, 10 at Easter, 10 at Christmas, 10 in October..... adding up to 60 while the rest of us get 25? (Never mind teacher training days, which is certainly more than 5 on my last count). Slight difference there, don't you think?

And don't complain about the pay - my next door neighbour teaches at secondary, and the man across the road taught at primary school, so I know what they earn !!

Our schools have been pretty good really, and we have never had a problem taking the boys on holidays. My husband works in the oil business and is extremely busy during the summer months, hence the reason we go in October. And it is educational taking them abroad anyway - so we have been told, by teachers here.

 

[Lisash]

This subject always causes the most arguments. I try to avoid term time as much as I can but have often taken my kids out of school for the odd few days before term finishes. As DD finished school with 9 GCSE passes at Grade C or above I would have to say her education hasn't suffered and she is a happier more well rounded adult for having spent time travelling the world and spending quality time with her family. I got so tired of the lecture from the schools receptionists I now just call them in as sick for a couple of days. It has lead to some very quick calls from the Manchester airport toilets whilst trying to avoid the giveaway passenger announcements on the tannoy system

 

[tennisfan]

Not wanting to argue but can I just step in here about teachers, yes the children are not in for about 6 weeks during the summer but the teachers are. My sister usually has about 3 to 3.5 weeks off during the summer as a teacher as they have to go in and plan & prepare for the next academic year. Also add up all the time they spend in meetings after 3.30pm.

Also she has to go in for a few days all the other holidays. The amount of people I speak to seem to have this view that teachers have loads of holidays but I know a few and know this is not the case.

Her school does tend to have training days attached to holidays to make it easier for the parents.

I can see it from a parents point of view but at the end of the day it is the local government who are inforcing the taking no time off during term time not the schools itself.

My advice would be to have a chat with the head teacher & explain your reasons why you want to do it.

 

[hildasmuriel]

In our school we have many children who take extended holidays - 4 or 6 weeks being quite common. They are tested before leaving and on return and nearly all have gone backwards after their holiday. None of them have ever made any progress in their absence. These are unauthorised absences, but the Education Authority do not have the bottle to take legal action - it might be seen as racist against a certain section of the local community.

Only 6 years ago I would have agreed about teachers having too much holiday, but once I started work in a school I really had my eyes opened. I never realised HOW MUCH work and time the good teachers put into their lessons.
They are also paid a set number of hours a year, but they ALL work far more than that. I know lots of other industries do (certainly all the rest of my family do) but they don't have the endless criticism levelled at them that teachers do. Their set hours are all worked in term times, so in essence their holidays are unpaid.
Support staff are only paid for term times plus a few holiday days - for example I am paid for 42.3 weeks of the year - the other 9.2 weeks are unpaid.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

I am sorry but there is a lot of nonsense talked about how hard done by teachers are.
Their trades union is threatening to strike unless they get a 10% pay rise and according to their own union this is around £3,000
They finish normal work by 15;30 and maybe put a couple of hours in after that, they start at what? at 8:30?

The amount of people in this country working more than 45 hours a week and on a damn sight less than teachers is growing all the time, the majority of teachers work is the same each year with minor changes to a set curriculum, they won't work after hours so all meetings are held in school time, our country is seeing less after school actrivites.
We ALL work more than our contracted hours a year, without having the benefits that teachers get, such as an inflation proof pension and if you look at a teachers hourly rate, its a LOT better than the wealth creating workers of this country that make the money to pay for these very good wages and benefits.
Yet still they are the only profession that moans on about how hard they work and the "poor" salaries they get and the extra hours they work and the "stress" of teaching.
Sorry but it just does not wash any more.

As for taking time off in school hours, well how many times has your child come back from school saying that their normal teacher is off and a substitute is in? How much does that effect their learning?

I wonder how much the teachers hourly contract rate is compared to the manufacturing industry for example?
Many manufacturing workers working over 45 hours are on the minimum wage and get only 25 days off a year
How is a teachers rate against a nurses or a Junior Doctor and the horrendous hours they work? or the Police Constable or even the poor damn squaddie having his head shot at in Afghanistan?

Come on Teachers, you KNOW you have it good compared to the majority in this country.

(Flame suit well and truly on)

 

[emily1982]

You really think we arrive at 8:30 and finish at 3:30? Blimey, so why was i at work the other day at 7:30am setting up equipment so my children could have a special day? mmm Also we don't get paid for staff meetings, so no, their not contracted into our day!

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start throwing comments.

 

[Obi Wan Kenobi]

You really think we arrive at 8:30 and finish at 3:30? Blimey, so why was i at work the other day at 7:30am setting up equipment so my children could have a special day? mmm Also we don't get paid for staff meetings, so no, their not contracted into our day!

Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start throwing comments.

Well, bully for you!
As someone who is at the office by 05:30 and home around 23:00 I am so very impressed with you being at school an hour earlier than normal.
I am sure you will be able to recover in the six weeks break you are having.
What time will you finish on Friday then? As I am informed my son's school want the children picked up at 14:00 instead of 15:15 as its last day!
Thats really useful to working parents!

 

[Frances999]

As I am informed my son's school want the children picked up at 14:00 instead of 15:15 as its last day!
Thats really useful to working parents!

That used to really annoy me about my children's school back in Bath - the last day of term they always finished at 12.30pm which was a pain in the backside for sorting out childcare arrangements when DH and I were at work.

I'm not going to get into the debate about teacher's pay. In my opinion, they are paid fairly - although I was disgusted to recently learn about the pay of some teaching assistants who seem to do almost as much work as the teacher for a disgraceful amount of money.

With regards to taking your children out of school, I've been dealing with it since my eldest was five. Their school never allowed time off for holiday, so we've had to get used to travelling in peak time.

 

[emily1982]

It's not my fault your child's school wants them picked up early!

Friday i will probably finish at 4pm since the day before i would have took 30 5year olds away for the night, but then ill go in on monday.

I'm not judgeing your job obi, so don't judge any of ours. Especially when you don't know the ins and outs.

 

[lawlesslovewdw]

Well said OBI. We run our own business, we work 7 days a week- if a client needs us we answer the phone etc etc, we even work on holiday, the lap top blackberry and phones come everywhere with us! We have 2 young children (one who is asd - and school meetings take up a lot of time). We start work when we wake up and I am known to be writing reports at midnight! How many days holiday do we get ZERO, NIL, ZILCH. One last point I had to pay for my uni education didnt get any free, dont teachers get more help there? Yes you teachers do us a service, and some of you are better than others, but unlike the low low paid care assistants etc you dont work bank holidays christmas day etc you knew the score why moan.

As for my children, yes we will try WDW for the last 2 weeks in August, if that doesnt work Oct half term plus a week it is

 

[mark&sue]

The thing is it is not teacher's fault. It is the government who feel the need to pick on middle class families as they can't control the pupils who truant.

Has truancy improved since these draconian rules have been brought in? I don't believe so. However the hard working parents are paying instead.

I am obsessed with holidays and feel I have made the right decision by only having one child as I really don't think I could go through all the arguments and agro I have to put up with at work to just get a few days off work during school holidays. Leave is no problem at all as I have 29 days basic and anonther 24 days as I work longer hours (flexi).

The whole situation is just not flexible. We cannot all take the same time off. We need to perhaps stagger the holidays. A more up-to-date and family friendly approach needs to be taken.

Sorry to vent


Susan

and Lisah I know exactly what you are talking about. For some reason I thought the toilets would be quiet!!!


Susan


I

 

[jonkatony]

Teaching is a noble profession and should not take the blame for individuals who can not get the their work/life to balance. They are not responsible for hikes in travel costs during peak times. We all are responsible for our own lives if you do not like yours change it, do not 'belly ache' and critise others.
This country needs well trained teachers and responsible parents.
Flame away!