Fastpass return or replacement?

[rainyvegandisney]

.

 

[Nabas]

After what we've endured this trip, I would GLADLY pay for FP+. !!! Bring it on !!!!

We were at WDW 2 weeks ago.

With many shows and other forms of entertainment still closed, it almost feels like Disney is intentionally creating chaos at the parks by letting too many as a way to justify paid FP+.

It was NOT like this earlier in 2021. Our March 2021 trip was the most enjoyable March in almost 2 decades, while January 2021 was even better.

But since then, Disney has increased theme park capacity several times, even though the parks are still not at 100%.

 

[TropicalDIS]

If it sells out too fast then they left a lot of $$ on the table, also to maintain satisfaction the paid fast passes have to remain generally available - ie. cant sell out within 5 minutes of the park opening. Also I think they care to some extent about the experience because they need the guests to return. Rise of the Resistance is a tough one because the demand for the ride way outstrips capacity...I think they should offer an earlier booking window for on property guests but I am sure a lot of people would disagree. Not sure what they can do with that one until the demand normalizes to the same as some of the other popular rides.

I could see Rise being excluded from paid FP for a while. Just like Harry Potter was excluded from Express Pass (and maybe still is).

 

[Marionnette]

I could see Rise being excluded from paid FP for a while. Just like Harry Potter was excluded from Express Pass (and maybe still is).

I would add Ratatouille to that list. I fully expect to see boarding passes for it as well.

 

[krybandt]

To all those who are saying $30 per person is too much look at what people are paying at Universal to get an idea of what these passes are worth. It has to be priced at a sufficient price so that everyone is not trying to buy it otherwise it is pointless as the line will get to be hours long just like the standby line, or the fast passes will sell out immediately...they will need to price the passes at a price where the supply and demand vs price curves meet.

$30pp per day turns into nearly $1,000 for our family next trip. I get that Universal and other theme parks price their version of fast pass aggressively, but it was always included in Disney's ticket cost. If they adopt that pricing structure - and obviously it's all speculation and I doubt it would look exactly like that - we'd go every 5-10 years or more likely stop going. There's only so many table service meals you can cut out of the budget.

 

[TreeFalls]

What about a paid/free hybrid? Planning ahead is a paid system, but day of works just like before.

FPs before arrival: They give a few free to resort guests, people can choose to buy them (or buy extras, if you are a resort guest).
Day of: Once you arrive in the park, you can book a FP if any are left. People would be able to get free FPs for less popular rides, but if they wanted the headliners they'd need to plan ahead and maybe pay.

 

[TiggerBouncy]

the “we only need first time visitors to be happy” is very flawed for any business.

here’s a quote from Inc about why that’s bad reasoning:
“The problem is that as the management team’s growth expectations (my emphasize: stockholders) increase, it gets increasingly harder to acquire more customers. As a result, customer acquisition costs go up and the quality of customers, in terms of how long they stick around, goes down.”

You are applying traditional business models to Disney, and that's your flaw. What you say is absolutely correct for local businesses. When I was 14, I had a job at a hardware store. It was impressed upon me (and rightly so) that it costs us over $50 to bring in a new customer. At a profit margin of 20%, that means that individual had to spend almost $2,000 with us before we started to see any money from them. What you say is TRUE for DLP or DLC.

That business model is NOT TRUE for a destination resort such as WDW. My father was the Director of Tourism for Bermuda for a while - which has a similar model to Disney. You do not get a majority of money from repeat customers in a destination location. Disney knows (I guarantee you) that the majority of their business at WDW are not repeat customers AND NEVER WILL BE.

They depend on word of mouth from first time visitors to bring in new first time visitors. You can rant and rave all you want about how you think that business model does not work to your traditional mind, but the fact is Disney has been employing it for 50 years now at WDW and the business is still booming - and NOT with repeat customers.

Again, I am not making any of this up. Just look up for yourself the number of visitors at WDW are repeat vs first time. Now look up how long WDW has been open (hint... 1971 and their 50th anniversary is right around the corner). You can't argue with the facts that 50 years into this gig, they are at 70% new or twice in a lifetime visitors and the parks are already TOO busy - they do not need to attract more people to fill what they have right now.

In the battle of who Disney needs to please at WDW, it's first time visitors over annuals EVERY TIME. (As mentioned, this is different at locations such as DLP or DLC which is why they have to employ different tactics at those places)

 

[ziravan]

I think that they’ll almost certainly tier it into on-site stays because that’s the best way to make a huge chunk of change without being very specific about how much they’re making.

It will be the “free dining” model. As most people know, free dining was never free. It required you to pay rack rates instead of the usual 20-25% discount.

If a significant part of the paid FP program we’re tied to the rooms, you’ll be paying much closer to rack rates for them.

You want those 3 free FP for Deluxe? Perfect, but your $550 AK studio for 5 nights is: $550 (not $550 with a 25% discount).

That one transaction alone is $138/day in pricing upcharge. If the average room count is 3, then those 9 FPs are about $15 each but more important, WDW doesn’t have to hang that $15 price tag on them. They’re “free” as part of the room charge.

And. If DVC qualifies and that’s a certainty (because if it didn’t, it would destroy their claims that DVC is deluxe accommodations), then that’s a huge new selling point. How can you make deluxe accommodations with their maximum FP allotment affordable for your whole family? DVC has your answer.

 

[ChipnDale79]

$30pp per day turns into nearly $1,000 for our family next trip. I get that Universal and other theme parks price their version of fast pass aggressively, but it was always included in Disney's ticket cost. If they adopt that pricing structure - and obviously it's all speculation and I doubt it would look exactly like that - we'd go every 5-10 years or more likely stop going. There's only so many table service meals you can cut out of the budget.

Universal also tends to be a shorter trip.

 

[malba2366]

Universal also tends to be a shorter trip.

I don't think Disney wants shorter trips, so I believe they will only do paid fast passes on the most popular rides and some variant of a free fastpass system for the less popular rides. As WDW gets capacity limited they probably want to cater more to guests who come every few years and spend a lot of money, rather than the guests who come all the time and spend less.

Even if they charge for fast passes waiting in line is always an option as well. Plenty of people at the other parks wait in the lines.

 

[ziravan]

If I were WDW, I’d add a 30 min booking advantage for on-site and AP guests to Rise tomorrow. And I’d make that the same for Tron, Guardians and the new rides.

Functionally, they’d all be booked up every day before being made avail to off-site, non-AP guests.

First regarding APs - there is no doubt when reintroduced the prices are going to be eye-popping. That deserves some service.

Since capacity is so limited, WDW has every incentive to preference their on-site and AP guests, and they should unrepentantly do so.

This is especially true if they do in fact intend to make the same distinction with FP availability.

 

[ChipnDale79]

I don't think Disney wants shorter trips, so I believe they will only do paid fast passes on the most popular rides and some variant of a free fastpass system for the less popular rides. As WDW gets capacity limited they probably want to cater more to guests who come every few years and spend a lot of money, rather than the guests who come all the time and spend less.

Even if they charge for fast passes waiting in line is always an option as well. Plenty of people at the other parks wait in the lines.

yeah i believe thats the direction they're heading in as well.

I also can't tell you how many people that dont go to disney often, that i've had to explain fast pass to, when talking disney, i've heard countless times from them.."yeah, but i dont want to go down there and wait an hour or two for every ride."

there are people that wont go because of lines.

 

[krybandt]

And. If DVC qualifies and that’s a certainty (because if it didn’t, it would destroy their claims that DVC is deluxe accommodations), then that’s a huge new selling point. How can you make deluxe accommodations with their maximum FP allotment affordable for your whole family? DVC has your answer.

We are DVC and will be looking closely at what they offer. I don't think they want a bunch of owners feeling priced out and selling contracts. Some have made the point that Disney is most focused on attracting first time visitors and that may be true. But I'd argue a lot of money could be spent over the next two decades by people who feel like they've "prepaid" their room and tickets through DVC or APs.

 

[ChipnDale79]

We are DVC and will be looking closely at what they offer. I don't think they want a bunch of owners feeling priced out and selling contracts. Some have made the point that Disney is most focused on attracting first time visitors and that may be true. But I'd argue a lot of money could be spent over the next two decades by people who feel like they've "prepaid" their room and tickets through DVC or APs.

there's also a lot of us that havent bought into DVC, but have continually gone for 15 years or so, and had planned to continue to go for more years. I feel like they just assume we'll continue to visit no matter what they do.

I wasnt in a place to purchase DVC when we first started going, but we're in a place to do so now, but it's not something we're going to entertain because of the direction things are going.

 

[bookgirl2632]

And I’m not eve4 going to purchase DVC, but we go to Disney every other year. I will take my money elsewhere and go less frequently depending on how things go. I’m not naive enough to think that’ll make much of a difference to Disney. Someone else will come in my place. But Disney is slowly pricing me out of the way I like to travel.

 

[krybandt]

there's also a lot of us that havent bought into DVC, but have continually gone for 15 years or so, and had planned to continue to go for more years. I feel like they just assume we'll continue to visit no matter what they do.

I wasnt in a place to purchase DVC when we first started going, but we're in a place to do so now, but it's not something we're going to entertain because of the direction things are going.

I completely understand. We have definitely felt more disenchanted over the last five years or so. It has paid for itself in terms of what we would have spent on deluxe or even moderate resort rooms and I'd love to keep it so my kids can take their families one day. But yeah, there is a breaking point. I wouldn't recommend buying in until we see what's coming with FP.

 

[ChipnDale79]

And I’m not eve4 going to purchase DVC, but we go to Disney every other year. I will take my money elsewhere and go less frequently depending on how things go. I’m not naive enough to think that’ll make much of a difference to Disney. Someone else will come in my place. But Disney is slowly pricing me out of the way I like to travel.

remember, someone is only taking your place if hotels and parks are at 100% capacity at all the time. no one is taking your place if they arent, disney just isnt getting that money.

doesnt mean they wont make up for that money by charging more for others though...they'll always get their money.

 

[Moliphino]

there's also a lot of us that havent bought into DVC, but have continually gone for 15 years or so, and had planned to continue to go for more years. I feel like they just assume we'll continue to visit no matter what they do.

I wasnt in a place to purchase DVC when we first started going, but we're in a place to do so now, but it's not something we're going to entertain because of the direction things are going.

I've gone at least once a year for the past 22 years and have no desire to buy DVC. I really don't care about "luxury" amenities, villas, nice pools, etc., and that goes for everywhere not just Disney. Spending time at my hotel always makes me feel antsy because I should be out doing stuff. So I genuinely like Pop for the good buses (only one stop! efficient!), Skyliner, and being a clean place to sleep and shower.

 

[CSLucas]

remember, someone is only taking your place if hotels and parks are at 100% capacity at all the time. no one is taking your place if they arent, disney just isnt getting that money.

doesnt mean they wont make up for that money by charging more for others though...they'll always get their money.

I think, though, that there really is because we are talking about a policy change. They aren't exchanging one guest for the exact same type of guest (which would require, as you said, 100% capacity or else guest B would have already just come since there was room). For every person who decides not to go to Disney because they don't like the new policy, though, I think there is probably another person who now would come to Disney (when they wouldn't before) because they DO like the new policy/environment.

 

[malba2366]

Since capacity is so limited, WDW has every incentive to preference their on-site and AP guests, and they should unrepentantly do so.

Annual pass guests are not who they want to cater to as the revenue per guest is very low vs the park capacity they use. I don't think the annual passes will get much more expensive, but they will be limited through the reservation system which is here to stay. If you follow DIS investor presentations/executive statements they say over and over that increasing guest volumes in the parks is not a viable option, and that their goal is to increase revenue per guest. The options they have are to raise ticket prices which is very visible and could impact bookings or to sell premium experiences like fast passes, premium seating at shows, reserved parade/fireworks viewing areas etc.

I don't see them giving any more free perks to resort guests as a matter of policy - they may do so as an incentive during certain periods though as they used to do with the dining plans. The 30 min early theme park entry is a good perk because it lets you get on one long wait ride first thing...they should also open ROR an hour early or something for on park guests. Extended evening for Deluxe is a good selling point as well, since the parks will be very empty and shorts wait with only deluxe guests in the park vs extra magic which was all on property guests. If Extended Hours includes Fireworks one day a week at MK/Epcot that could be a huge benefit.