Fastpass return or replacement?

[ChipnDale79]

I've gone at least once a year for the past 22 years and have no desire to buy DVC. I really don't care about "luxury" amenities, villas, nice pools, etc., and that goes for everywhere not just Disney. Spending time at my hotel always makes me feel antsy because I should be out doing stuff. So I genuinely like Pop for the good buses (only one stop! efficient!), Skyliner, and being a clean place to sleep and shower.

i could have swore i wrote this lol.

You're like me, i cant stand to sit in a hotel room or hang out at a resort. There's too much to do and see.

 

[Moliphino]

i could have swore i wrote this lol.

You're like me, i cant stand to sit in a hotel room or hang out at a resort. There's too much to do and see.

When I was younger we did big family trips and often stayed with my aunt and uncle who own DVC. It always involved going back to the room for hours in the middle of the day (frequently not making it back to the park at all) and it drove me and my sister bonkers - such a relief when we started leaving them behind and going to the parks ourselves. Now most of my trips are just me and my sister. Some people enjoy relaxing on vacation, but it's not for me.

 

[Narcoossee11]

remember, someone is only taking your place if hotels and parks are at 100% capacity at all the time. no one is taking your place if they arent, disney just isnt getting that money.

doesnt mean they wont make up for that money by charging more for others though...they'll always get their money.

EXACTLY.... If I or you don't go, there are plenty behind us willing to pay . Just look at the last 13 months , Disney can't keep up with demand.

 

[ChipnDale79]

EXACTLY.... If I or you don't go, there are plenty behind us willing to pay . Just look at the last 13 months , Disney can't keep up with demand.

ehh that demand isnt normal...they havent had all resorts open for those 13 months, and there is pent up travel demand. I cant imagine that demand is long term though.

 

[Wandering Oaken]

ehh that demand isnt normal...they havent had all resorts open for those 13 months, and there is pent up travel demand. I cant imagine that demand is long term though.

True. It is like a shaken bottle of Coke. Pull the cap off and you're going to have an explosion but it will not last. This will die back down to normal crowd levels once they get back to full operations and the revenge travelers stop going so often.

 

[ChipnDale79]

True. It is like a shaken bottle of Coke. Pull the cap off and you're going to have an explosion but it will not last. This will die back down to normal crowd levels once they get back to full operations and the revenge travelers stop going so often.

great analogy.

 

[Marionnette]

You are applying traditional business models to Disney, and that's your flaw. What you say is absolutely correct for local businesses. When I was 14, I had a job at a hardware store. It was impressed upon me (and rightly so) that it costs us over $50 to bring in a new customer. At a profit margin of 20%, that means that individual had to spend almost $2,000 with us before we started to see any money from them. What you say is TRUE for DLP or DLC.

That business model is NOT TRUE for a destination resort such as WDW. My father was the Director of Tourism for Bermuda for a while - which has a similar model to Disney. You do not get a majority of money from repeat customers in a destination location. Disney knows (I guarantee you) that the majority of their business at WDW are not repeat customers AND NEVER WILL BE.

They depend on word of mouth from first time visitors to bring in new first time visitors. You can rant and rave all you want about how you think that business model does not work to your traditional mind, but the fact is Disney has been employing it for 50 years now at WDW and the business is still booming - and NOT with repeat customers.

Again, I am not making any of this up. Just look up for yourself the number of visitors at WDW are repeat vs first time. Now look up how long WDW has been open (hint... 1971 and their 50th anniversary is right around the corner). You can't argue with the facts that 50 years into this gig, they are at 70% new or twice in a lifetime visitors and the parks are already TOO busy - they do not need to attract more people to fill what they have right now.

In the battle of who Disney needs to please at WDW, it's first time visitors over annuals EVERY TIME. (As mentioned, this is different at locations such as DLP or DLC which is why they have to employ different tactics at those places)

I'm not disputing your numbers but I would like to see the source because I enjoy delving into statistical analysis. The only credible information that I have been able to find online points to a 70% return rate among first-time visitors, not that 70% of WDW visitors are first-timers. I've read message board posts that assert that it's 80% first-timers but there was nothing to back it up other than "I was told by Disney University..."

 

[Spankymclovin]

I just checked MDE app and there are 16 rides that have a hour wait or longer. This is getting out of hand.

 

[Wandering Oaken]

I just checked MDE app and there are 16 rides that have a hour wait or longer. This is getting out of hand.

Remember that the MDE app has inflated wait times as well. That 60 min wait may actually be 35-45 minutes. Still, it doesn't bode well for anyone going right now. Not enough stuff open.

 

[Cabius]

I just checked MDE app and there are 16 rides that have a hour wait or longer. This is getting out of hand.

If it helps, they probably don't really all have 60-minute waits. Disney is overstating wait times because they don't have the physical space in standby queues to manage the whole ride's capacity, and they're trying to keep lines from spilling into the park too much. POTC is often posted as 45-60 minutes when the actual wait is more like 20-25 minutes, for example.

 

[Marionnette]

Remember that the MDE app has inflated wait times as well. That 60 min wait may actually be 35-45 minutes. Still, it doesn't bode well for anyone going right now. Not enough stuff open.

And how many first-timers are going to know that 60 minutes actually means 35? Instead, they're going to see a 60 minute wait for Buzz on MDE and they're going to accept it at face value while Lines currently shows a 42-minute wait. So much for making first-timers happy!

 

[Cabius]

And how many first-timers are going to know that 60 minutes actually means 35? Instead, they're going to see a 60 minute wait for Buzz on MDE and they're going to accept it at face value while Lines currently shows a 42-minute wait. So much for making first-timers happy!

Oh, I agree. They've got to use their full physical queue capacity, either by bringing back some form of FastPass or expanding boarding groups, or restructuring the physical space (where possible).

In their greed, they've chosen to expand reservation capacity far ahead of their ability to delivery enough attraction, dining, and entertainment capacity to support those crowds. I know staffing is a challenge, and a lot of folks will have a pretty good experience anyway (I sure did!) but it's a rough time. They need to keep ramping up, and stop expanding park capacity.

 

[Spankymclovin]

We go at least every other year. We love the FP+ system. I like the idea of knowing you can knock out your 3 most desirable rides with no wait and and allowing you to book more if you choose is great. We always spend 10 days in the park and we've gotten accustomed to using them and not having to stand in any stand by lines more than 20 minutes.

 

[Karin1984]

I just posted this in the general news thread as well, but people here might want to think about this as well.
Everyone who visits Disneyland Paris at the moment is considered 'healthy'. Everyone has either had their 2 shots, or has been tested in the last 48 hours.

This measure of the pass sanitaire, health pass, was introduced last week, and it caused a decline in visitors in all French themeparks, 20 - 50%, max 70%.
While the announcement did get a lot of French people make their vaccine appoints, it also makes that people decide to wait till they have had their shots, or decide to wait till the measures are over.

There are no exact numbers for Disney, but what I did notice today. It's the height of summer holidays and at midday the longest queues were for Space & Big Thunder Mountain 45 minutes (no FP available).
Because of everyone being tested / vaccinated, rides can work at full capacity. (side note, DLP still has a mask mandate, indoors and outdoors)

This will influence the introduction of the new Premier Access passes next week, because with these waiting times, FP are a nice to have, but definitely not a necessity.

I leave for DLP tomorrow, I'll have a look how the free standby pass works, if single rider lines are open and see what else is new

 

[Marionnette]

I just posted this in the general news thread as well, but people here might want to think about this as well.
Everyone who visits Disneyland Paris at the moment is considered 'healthy'. Everyone has either had their 2 shots, or has been tested in the last 48 hours.

This measure of the pass sanitaire, health pass, was introduced last week, and it caused a decline in visitors in all French themeparks, 20 - 50%, max 70%.
While the announcement did get a lot of French people make their vaccine appoints, it also makes that people decide to wait till they have had their shots, or decide to wait till the measures are over.

There are no exact numbers for Disney, but what I did notice today. It's the height of summer holidays and at midday the longest queues were for Space & Big Thunder Mountain 45 minutes (no FP available).
Because of everyone being tested / vaccinated, rides can work at full capacity.

This will influence the introduction of the new Premier Access passes next week, because with these waiting times, FP are a nice to have, but definitely not a necessity.

I leave for DLP tomorrow, I'll have a look how the free standby pass works, if single rider lines are open and see what else is new

I look forward to reading about your experience. Have a good time and stay safe!

 

[dez1978]

We are DVC and will be looking closely at what they offer. I don't think they want a bunch of owners feeling priced out and selling contracts. Some have made the point that Disney is most focused on attracting first time visitors and that may be true. But I'd argue a lot of money could be spent over the next two decades by people who feel like they've "prepaid" their room and tickets through DVC or APs.

I don't know. Disney can snap up those contracts on ROFR at a bargain then resell them as new, full priced points. They can do that for a couple of years then slap some new "perks" in and they'll have more people willing to pay full price for those points.

 

[Marionnette]

I don't know. Disney can snap up those contracts on ROFR at a bargain then resell them as new, full priced points. They can do that for a couple of years then slap some new "perks" in and they'll have more people willing to pay full price for those points.

You assume that owners will sell at bargain prices and that Disney has any interest in tying up large amounts in capital for points/rooms that they have to pay maintenance fees on until sold.

 

[AnnaKristoff2013]

I would add Ratatouille to that list. I fully expect to see boarding passes for it as well.

Is there any reason to believe Ratatouille will be any more popular then MMRR? They're basically the same ride system. MMRR didn't use boarding passes. I mean I guess ROTR is the same kind of ride system too, but it's on a different level.

 

[ChipnDale79]

Is there any reason to believe Ratatouille will be any more popular then MMRR? They're basically the same ride system. MMRR didn't use boarding passes. I mean I guess ROTR is the same kind of ride system too, but it's on a different level.

I wonder if they didnt use the boarding pass on MMRR because DHS already had an attraction with the boarding pass system.

 

[Cabius]

I wonder if they didnt use the boarding pass on MMRR because DHS already had an attraction with the boarding pass system.

I think MMRR has higher capacity and is less prone to breakdowns. But also, while it's a super fun ride, nobody would stand in line for 4-6 hours to see it.

People would absolutely do that for RotR. Right?