FastPass Policy 'Change'?

[t_catt11]

First of all, I never saw any of the other threads regarding this.

At least two sizeable threads per week. The "fastpass is changing" rumors have had threads posted all the way back to at least 2008.

I'll do a quick summary of WHY using a fastpass late is not "bad".

1. As a PP stated, a FP is not an agreement to come back at a given time. It is a reservation in a virtual queue. If you come back late, you do not impact anyone, though the uneducated might believe so. Don't believe me?

Say you have a pass with a 12:00-1:00 return time, and come back at 2:00. At 2:00, you get in line behind 30 people. The guy behind you sees your supposedly expired pass and grumbles that you have made the line longer... but had you come back during the window, you'd have still gone before him - he just wouldn't have known it.

Using a FP late is exactly like getting in the standby line but letting others go ahead of you. The impact is completely invisible unless a very large number use their passes at one time (most succeptible - end of the day). The periods prior have gone quicker... it's a net sum of zero.

2. Disney's written operational policies do not allow for guests to use fastpasses early - but ALWAYS allow for them to be used "late" (unless specific operational criteria are met, where the attraction manager can refuse them - but this is exceedingly rare).



The point of fastpasses is to spread out some of the line throughout the day. There is a ton of math involved, but suffice it to say that while early passes break the system, late ones do not (and are factored in).



There, logic done. I fully expect to be ignored. Cue the sanctimonious who choose to follow an imagined rule, and look down their noses at all who do not.

 

[mesaboy2]

First of all, I never saw any of the other threads regarding this.

Secondly, since I had to ask for clarification on what was being discussed, I would think it would be obvious that I hadn't.

Thirdly, I didn't insult anyone. Though looking back at the post I made, I should have said arrogance, not ignorance. Not sure if that makes you feel any better about it though.

Finally, I am sorry I have a difference of opinion than you but if you have reserved a time to be there and take that time from someone else who could have used it just so you can come back when you want, then that isn't right and it defeats the purpose of the system.

Either way, I'm sorry you thought I insulted you and I am done with this topic.

Let me help, if you're still here.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2796112

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2794066

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2793666

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2783661

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2782623

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2782399

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2780811

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2780028

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2774136

And thanks for the concise summary, t_catt11. It never ends, does it?

 

[Disfamguy]

At least two sizeable threads per week. The "fastpass is changing" rumors have had threads posted all the way back to at least 2008.

I'll do a quick summary of WHY using a fastpass late is not "bad".

1. As a PP stated, a FP is not an agreement to come back at a given time. It is a reservation in a virtual queue. If you come back late, you do not impact anyone, though the uneducated might believe so. Don't believe me?

Say you have a pass with a 12:00-1:00 return time, and come back at 2:00. At 2:00, you get in line behind 30 people. The guy behind you sees your supposedly expired pass and grumbles that you have made the line longer... but had you come back during the window, you'd have still gone before him - he just wouldn't have known it.

Using a FP late is exactly like getting in the standby line but letting others go ahead of you. The impact is completely invisible unless a very large number use their passes at one time (most succeptible - end of the day). The periods prior have gone quicker... it's a net sum of zero.

2. Disney's written operational policies do not allow for guests to use fastpasses early - but ALWAYS allow for them to be used "late" (unless specific operational criteria are met, where the attraction manager can refuse them - but this is exceedingly rare).



The point of fastpasses is to spread out some of the line throughout the day. There is a ton of math involved, but suffice it to say that while early passes break the system, late ones do not (and are factored in).



There, logic done. I fully expect to be ignored. Cue the sanctimonious who choose to follow an imagined rule, and look down their noses at all who do not.

Well, I have less that 200 posts in over two years so I don't spend my every waking moment scanning this forum for Fast pass threads.

If indeed the policy says that you can come back later and still use the fast pass, then I am good with it. That is why I asked the question earlier because I wasn't aware they were thinking of changing the policy.

But I was mistakenly under the impression that this was a reservation for a specific time period. So if that's not the case, I apologize to those who got upset with my position.

Of course, someone simply stating the policy and correcting me would have gone a long way as well, instead of getting their undies in a bunch.

 

[Disfamguy]

Let me help, if you're still here.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2796112

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2794066

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2793666

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2783661

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2782623

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2782399

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2780811

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2780028

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2774136

And thanks for the concise summary, t_catt11. It never ends, does it?

Like I said, it;s not my life's work to scour the forums for fast pass threads.

Also, I apologized for not knowing that the policy said you can use them late so you can pull your panties out from wherever they are bunched up at.

 

[goofy's_gurl]

Wow! Then what's the point of the fast pass? I mean if you miss your time you should have to get another or wait like everyone else. Otherwise it's kinda pointless.

Not really, not a lot of people know that though. And the FP lines are never uber long.

 

[mesaboy2]

Well, I have less that 200 posts in over two years so I don't spend my every waking moment scanning this forum for Fast pass threads.

1. If indeed the policy says that you can come back later and still use the fast pass, then I am good with it. That is why I asked the question earlier because I wasn't aware they were thinking of changing the policy.

But I was mistakenly under the impression that this was a reservation for a specific time period. So if that's not the case, I apologize to those who got upset with my position.

Of course, someone simply stating the policy and correcting me would have gone a long way as well, 2. instead of getting their undies in a bunch.

1. It does.

2. I found you're use of the word "ignorance" particularly ironic, given you jumped into the discussion without bothering to understand the topic. That's a great way to get my "undies in a bunch", as you say.

Why do I sound more and more like bicker?

 

[goofy's_gurl]

Keep on bringing it!

 

[csharpwv]

I think that the only change that needs to happen to FastPass policy is that it should be an on-property only perk for WDW resort hotel guests - OR - moderate and deluxe resort hotel guests should get 2 'anytime-instant' fastpasses for every day of their stay.

Disney has a habit of making views, space, good seats, and other perks 'more valuable' to them- so it is bound to happen to fastpass at some point or another.

The use of expired fastpasses is somewhat of a null and void point - some will use their passes as soon as they can, some will wait till the end of the time period, and others will not use them at all - so people using expired fastpasses really has no impact - OR - very minimal impact on fastpass line wait times.

I REALLY don't think that Disney would change their fastpass policy without significant research - such as printing bar codes on the ticket and then scanning the ticket into a computer system to compile data on fastpass usage, usage outside of assigned time window, and unused fastpasses.

Disney doesn't do much in a knee-jerk fashion, they usually pull together all the facts, and make a decision - unless of course it involved raising ticket prices every year, raising ticket prices will always be the right thing to do

 

[Cafeen]

Wow! Then what's the point of the fast pass? I mean if you miss your time you should have to get another or wait like everyone else. Otherwise it's kinda pointless.

At the risk of typing a bunch that will go unread and bumping this old tired debate, I will attempt to actually answer this question..

The key factor in the distribution of people in relation to FPs (rather than the distribution of FPs themselves) is the Start Time. Staggering the start time is what makes FPs work. The end time is just there for psychological reasons and as a fallback in very rare extreme circumstances. Even in the official policies taught to every CM at training, they are good until the end of the day.

There's a lot of math behind the reasoning of this, that I won't get into, but you can check Doconeil's link in his sig for much of the detail there.

The psychological factor is two-fold. The suggested window with a return time is easier on most people to manage. Also, for those that don't know the actual policy, it helps to fine tune the distribution of people throughout the day.

It's perfectly understandable to look at a FP and assume that you must return by that time. It's designed with that in mind. That assumption isn't correct though.

And to edit. The latest change rumor was slated to hit on Sept 1. It didn't, as many expected it not to. These rumors have been circulating for several years, and each time they are unfounded. I'm thinking that Disney's continued research tends to trigger these responses and rumors, since they DO survey about them from time to time, and that generally precedes these types of rumors. (Perhaps even Disney themselves are starting the rumors to judge reaction? While I doubt it, I wouldn't put it past them).

 

[t_catt11]

Well, I have less that 200 posts in over two years so I don't spend my every waking moment scanning this forum for Fast pass threads.

If indeed the policy says that you can come back later and still use the fast pass, then I am good with it. That is why I asked the question earlier because I wasn't aware they were thinking of changing the policy.

But I was mistakenly under the impression that this was a reservation for a specific time period. So if that's not the case, I apologize to those who got upset with my position.

Of course, someone simply stating the policy and correcting me would have gone a long way as well, instead of getting their undies in a bunch.

Understand, my post was intended to be clarifying and informative, not insulting or attacking.

I make similar posts pretty regularly, and frequently am the recipient of vitrol and scorn from those that believe they are somehow morally superior by using all fastpasses within the window - or, if not possible, they don't use them at all. I'll be honest, I use 95% of my fastpasses in the window, too - I want to ride NOW, not later... but it's nice to know that I CAN use them later, if need be.

I think that is the height of ignorance.

This is where people get irritated. It's okay to ask questions or to state opinions, even if others don't agree with them - or if you are factually incorrect, as in this case. If we all had the same opinions and information, we couldn't discuss much. But accusing others of ignorance when you yourself don't have the correct facts makes you look bad.

Well, I have less that 200 posts in over two years so I don't spend my every waking moment scanning this forum for Fast pass threads.

And this makes you appear to be looking down your nose at those who are active on the forums. You make inflamatory remarks based off of bad info, then infer that those who are familiar with the issue are somehow inferior due to our activity? Yeah, not cool. The search feature doesn't have a post count requirement, to my knowledge, but I didn't mock you for not using it before you posted - I simply tried to post the correct info.

Ah, well. Typical fastpass thread devolution, no?

 

[waynesgirl]

Cafeen;42584225]
The end time is just there for psychological reasons and as a fallback in very rare extreme circumstances. Even in the official policies taught to every CM at training, they are good until the end of the day.

Ah, but Cafeen, you forgot to mention all the lovelies that, even when a CM tells them they can't return late, they still question or tell the Cm they are "ignorant"...

Disney has a habit of making views, space, good seats, and other perks 'more valuable' to them- so it is bound to happen to fastpass at some point or another.
QUOTE]

I do agree with this- but I think ultimately, they will begin charging for this.

I make similar posts pretty regularly, and frequently am the recipient of vitrol and scorn from those that believe they are somehow morally superior by using all fastpasses within the window -

Ah, well. Typical fastpass thread devolution, no?

Ah, t_catt...you do undervalue your place in the Circle of FP Life. Your vitrol is delicious. I always bring my Ritz Crackers to spread them on at the FP parties...don't forget the soda water at the next one. Sometimes the vitrol will stain.

 

[Senator Tressel]

If you miss your time, you already are waiting longer. Why do people insist on posting their opinions who have zero desire to understand the logic of how fastpass works?

 

[WillAustin]

if you miss your time you should have to get another or wait like everyone else.

Disney disagrees.

 

[t_catt11]

if you miss your time you should have to get another or wait like everyone else.

Sure, make an uneducated post as #1 on the forums. And why read anything?

Again, it's NOT a matter of missing your time, then waiting like everybody else - EVERYBODY can use a fastpass at any point after it becomes valid. This is Disney operational policy.

I've love to see the IP logs - who here actually thinks that leng is a new member?

Waynesgirl - if a CM told me that I couldn't use the FP, I would politely ask if there had been a policy change. Being rude is wrong. Not following something you know to be incorrect is not wrong.

If a CM tells me that the best way to get from the World Showcase to Hollywood Studios is to take a bus, I would be silly to listen to them, would I not?

 

[ses1230]

if you miss your time you should have to get another or wait like everyone else.

Why? Disney allows late returns.

 

[BrytEydBelle]

Sure, make an uneducated post as #1 on the forums. And why read anything?

Again, it's NOT a matter of missing your time, then waiting like everybody else - EVERYBODY can use a fastpass at any point after it becomes valid. This is Disney operational policy.

I've love to see the IP logs - who here actually thinks that leng is a new member?

Waynesgirl - if a CM told me that I couldn't use the FP, I would politely ask if there had been a policy change. Being rude is wrong. Not following something you know to be incorrect is not wrong.

If a CM tells me that the best way to get from the World Showcase to Hollywood Studios is to take a bus, I would be silly to listen to them, would I not?

Just out of curiousity, then why does the fastpass list a timeframe? Why not just list "anytime after noon" or something to that effect? Just because a cast member will look the other way to avoid a confrontation, that doesn't make it right. Maybe next trip, I'll try pool hopping and see if a CM kicks me out...if not, I guess it is fine.

 

[mom2rtk]

Let me help, if you're still here.

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2796112

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2794066

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2793666

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2783661

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2782623

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2782399

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2780811

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2780028

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=2774136

And thanks for the concise summary, t_catt11. It never ends, does it?

LOL! I needed a good chuckle long about now...... and there it is!

 

[Senator Tressel]

Maybe next trip, I'll try pool hopping and see if a CM kicks me out...if not, I guess it is fine.

Because pool hopping is against Disney policy. Using a late fastpass is not. CMs are trained to accept late fastpasses because mathematically, it doesn't matter when you use it after the beginning of the return time. There is zero difference between using it in the window or after the window.

The time is there in case they need to unexpectedly enforce the time for some reason. It gives them that option.

 

[bwilcox]

Just out of curiousity, then why does the fastpass list a timeframe? Why not just list "anytime after noon" or something to that effect? Just because a cast member will look the other way to avoid a confrontation, that doesn't make it right. Maybe next trip, I'll try pool hopping and see if a CM kicks me out...if not, I guess it is fine.

The difference between pool hopping and late FP use is that late FP use is actually WDW's policy. It is not a CM looking the other way-CM's are actually TRAINED to accept late FPs.

 

[mesaboy2]

I would so love a pulling-my-hair-out smiley about now.