Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[Ed5781]

Wow - people creating new DIS IDs just so they can personally attack other posters? That's really low. That's when I wish the DIS would engage in some banning based on ISP addresses (which they can and do sometimes, I believe).

Someone probably lurked, and the holier-than-thou attitude of some caused them to finally sign up.

 

[savannahcat]

So you break the rules, and now that it's enforced...you're going to throw a fit? Really?

I don't believe I've ever broken a rule by using a fastpass outside the return window. If I did, I did it with Disney's approval. Choosing to take my vacation dollars elsewhere because of policy changes does not equate to throwing a fit.

 

[FozzieFan]

Clearly, you don't eat at tables services enough, or been in line at Test Track enough, to have experienced a problem (I am teasing, but I have had TS reservations and not gotten seated on time, and I am NOT going to rush my meals because of their issues...and I HAVE been stuck in the queue at Test Track for nearly an hour...and stuck on an attraction without any option to leave for nearly half an hour...

I absolutely eat at table service during my trips, most of the time at the signature restaurants, which aren't exactly zippy. I wouldn't ever grab a FP with a return window within 2 hours of a dinner adr. But that's me. Being stuck in line for another ride is an entirely different issue. At that point though you've made a choice, you've chosen to ride Test track instead of using your FP.

Maybe I'm just too easy going... I don't see a Fast Pass as an entitlement (this is not directed at you doconeill, just the discussion in general), I didn't pay extra for it, if I get to use it great, but if I didn't make it back I missed out.

 

[phillyteamhater]

The big thing that I'm seeing with this is the possibility of the FP line getting overloaded with people. Yes, those with FPs are supposed to get through quicker (and before those in the standby line), however we know that that doesn't always happen. They also don't let all FPs through all the time; they let a certain number through, then make the FP line stop while they let some of the standby line through.

Why do I think this? Each FP ride gives "X" number of FPs for a certain return time (for argument's sake, let's say you are there at rope drop and get the first return time of 9:45 and that there are 120 available FPs per return time). Once the 120 FPs are distributed, the increment changes by 5 minutes (I think a couple do it in 3-minute increments). So, now you have your FP and you return at 9:45 to get on the ride. As the rule is now, the 120 people that have a window of 9:45 - 10:45 can return ANY TIME between 9:45 and park closing, 120 more people can return ANY TIME between 9:50 and closing, etc. Right now, you'd probably get right on if you walked up with your 9:45 FP return at 9:45. Now, if the rigid enforcement takes place, there are 120 people that MUST return between 9:45 - 10:45, 120 people that MUST return between 9:50 - 10:50, etc. This could create a bottleneck in the FP line with everyone trying to return at the same time because they are forced to. Not to mention that it goes against Disney's original intent to allow people the freedom to spend $$$ at other places.

Maybe if they added more FPs to a return window, but then also made the gaps bigger. In other words, maybe give 200-250 FPs at 9:45, but then make the next return window 15 minutes later.

This is a good example, I think this will clog the FP line more because everyone will feel obligated to return for their 1 hr return window and being that the new times get put out every 5 mins that creates huge overlapping of people with overlapping times and if some people arrive early & some just make deadlines, this will create more clogs in FP line and if Disney rushes to get FP people thru will create longer wait for SB line. I am going in June and I was unaware until I found this board that you could even use FP past expiration window as I haven't been to Disney since 2000 and FP was just this new awesome thing when I last went and we always made sure to be at the window asap, was planning on doing the same this time even after I found out about the non-expiration window but at the same time I knew if something came up I didn't have to rush or get a new FP time which was a nice piece of mind for someone going who hasn't been in a long time plus going over the summer as well. This is kind of a bummer but not the end of the world, will just have to plan more carefully and it shouldn't be too hard unless a ride breaks down as we have no ADRs, no kids, and no plans on going back to hotel for afternoon breaks.

 

[DVCLuver82]

Wow - people creating new DIS IDs just so they can personally attack other posters? That's really low. That's when I wish the DIS would engage in some banning based on ISP addresses (which they can and do sometimes, I believe).

I didn't create an account just to bash someone on DisBoards....well I guess in theory I did but this is my only account. My husband has an account and like usual he was reading a thread. Typically I just laugh at the ridiculous responses that people post, but the fact that people are mad that Disney is finally enforcing something that people should have abided to long before is plain crazy to me.

 

[livndisney]

Clearly, you don't eat at tables services enough, or been in line at Test Track enough, to have experienced a problem (I am teasing, but I have had TS reservations and not gotten seated on time, and I am NOT going to rush my meals because of their issues...and I HAVE been stuck in the queue at Test Track for nearly an hour...and stuck on an attraction without any option to leave for nearly half an hour...



If enforcement was needed for the system to work correctly, I guess the system has been broken for many, many years...

Yes, the system has been broken for a long time. I for one am glad WDW is starting to enforce some of their own policies. I hope it continues into some other areas. Too many people are taking advantage and encouraging others to do the same.

 

[recmouse]

As someone who is guilty of coming after the FP Return time... I don't totally get it. There are only so many FP's given out... so does it really matter when they come back? The FP line is rarely long... and if it is... it's usually because of the time of year and the crowds.

I'm like other posters... I don't want to have to backtrack across the park several times to make my FP time. We do enough walking as it is.

JMO

 

[doconeill]

I absolutely eat at table service during my trips, most of the time at the signature restaurants, which aren't exactly zippy. I wouldn't ever grab a FP with a return window within 2 hours of a dinner adr. But that's me. Being stuck in line for another ride is an entirely different issue. At that point though you've made a choice, you've chosen to ride Test track instead of using your FP.

No, I made a choice based on the available information that I should be able to ride in plenty of time to be able to also use my FP. But though an unfortunate series of events, it takes a far longer time to get through the line, without good options to abandon the ride (and why should I? It's already eaten a fair amount of my available time), that I now miss the end of my return window...it wasn't ever an either-or choice.

 

[MichelleVW]

As someone who is guilty of coming after the FP Return time... I don't totally get it. There are only so many FP's given out... so does it really matter when they come back? The FP line is rarely long... and if it is... it's usually because of the time of year and the crowds.

I'm like other posters... I don't want to have to backtrack across the park several times to make my FP time. We do enough walking as it is.

JMO

I don't get it either...it doesn't make sense. I don't understand the "you get a 5 minute window BEFORE" your time starts. Those people that clog the FP entrance line drive me bonkers.

We use late FP's all the time and would have to rethink our touring style if this is true...and I would never go when it was busy if I couldn't use late FP's.

 

[doconeill]

Yes, the system has been broken for a long time. I for one am glad WDW is starting to enforce some of their own policies. I hope it continues into some other areas. Too many people are taking advantage and encouraging others to do the same.

In what way is it currently broken? Serious question.

 

[Dawgdad]

I've been out for a while but with this new development I thought I should return to see what's up...
It is still amazing to me that people consider it "getting away with" something when they used FP's beyond the window. But now it appears that the policy is changing - most likely as a result of new technology that is in the works to make waiting in line an ancient concept. I assure you that this change (firm FP window) has NOTHING to do with line management or because the other system wasn't working. This is just the next step in what is an ongoing process of improving wait times.

I have posted this many times, but here it is again - perhaps for the final time...

As the self-proclaimed Late Fastpass Expert, I submit the following:

By using your FP beyond the window, you are not "getting away" with something, you are not "breaking rules", you are simply using the FP as allowed. When I use my FP does not affect crowd control at WDW or the attraction. My use of the FP does not have any impact on 1)the number of people in the park, or 2)the number of people who can ride an attraction in a day. FP's are not intended to move you to the front of the line, they are to allow you to spend your waiting time somewhere else (like buying food or merchandise). Disney is a business and they understand that the only time you cannot spend money is when you are riding and when you are in line. FP is a win-win idea that reduces your standing in line time. If I use my FP during the time window, someone waiting in the standby line will just have to wait a little longer. If I use it later that day, that same person (and many others) will simply get to ride a little sooner. Either way, the same number of people still ride. Complicated? NO - just simple logistics and ride management.

I have do have firsthand information concerning "late" FP use. My cousin, Scott Bowden, works in Anaheim as a Senior Vice President in the Department of Planning, Revenue Management and Strategic Pricing - he and I have had a few conversations about this issue. It has now become a joke because whenever I call him, the first thing he says is "Fastpasses do not expire, what's up?"
Additionally, a father in our first China adoption travel group (Mike Lewinski) works for the outside firm in Buffalo that actually helped Disney design and implement the FP (they make some of the components in the machines and in the software). He is very familiar with the logistics of the FP and how they work to provide better guest movement in the parks.

To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.

I do hear the argument that if everyone holds their FP until later it will clog the system. Consider the following extreme example:

5000 people collect FP's for Space Mtn in the morning and ALL of them choose to return after their window. The people in the standby line just have to wait. Still, the same number of people ride the ride and it never stops - it runs at capacity. BUT - for every one of those people who hold their FP until later, 1 person gets to ride earlier in the day.

Simplest example: you and I are the only people in the park. I use my FP at 10am(earliest return time printed on the FP), you (standby rider) have to wait. OR, I use my FP at 5pm(well after the end of the stated window) and you were able to ride anytime before that - with me not getting in your way.

If you don't believe you should use the FP's past the time, then don't. The fact is this: If I choose to not ride during the 2 hour window, it only means that someone else will fill my magical spot on the ride (someone from the standby line). If I did enter during the 2 hr time, that same person (theoretically) will ride AFTER me. None of this is intended as a rationalization, it is just basic theme park logistics. FP's do not expire (on that day, of course) and I know that for a fact.

Well, well. it looks like the self-proclaimed FP expert needs to make a few calls. Unfortunately, Scott has moved towards more of the accounting side of Operations, but hopefully he will have some insight into the new policy. If I can get any reliable information, I will post it.

 

[doconeill]

Welcome back DD!

If there is in fact a change, any sort of reasoning for the change would be much appreciated! Me likes technical details

 

[bairdbeth]

Seriously?! You're going to stop going to Disney because they are finally enforcing the guidelines that people have been taking advantage of? Were you dropped on your head?! That's like saying you're never going grocery shopping again because they won't accept your expired coupons! I've gone to Disney at least once a year since I was born and I've never had a problem getting on all of the rides while following the fast pass windows. I understand that in their handbook they have a section that states that they should let people in past their window, but that was placed in as a courtousy for people who ran into an issue and absolutely couldn't make their time. The point of it was to help make someone's experience magical, not for people to store up on fast passes like a squirrel stores up on nuts and use them at the end of the day. I have no problem with the new rule and in fact I'm excited that they will finally be enforcing it as it will finally allow the fast pass system to work that way that it was meant to.

Unfortunately I think that many guests at WDW have become spoiled. Disney has offered big discounts to get guests to their resorts and have been lax on enforcing several policies during the economic downturn in order to keep guests happy. Well now that the resorts are filling up, many find it beyond comprehension to go to WDW without a 40% discount. It is a change that will take a while to get used to, but I had to pay rack rate for our Spring Break trip. Oh well, that is when we can go, so be it. WDW enforcing the original concept of fastpass is their perogative. Disney does not have to offer fastpass at all. It is free, too many complaints and maybe they decide to charge for it or do away with it all together? I knew people used their FP after the time frame, but I have not so this will not change our touring at all. We only took fastpasses that we knew we could use. The 2 or 3 fastpasses we ended up not using over our 19 trips were due to not feeling well, too many blisters or just being too tired and having to leave before the FP window. We did give them away as we left. No matter what Disney does, they will never make everyone happy. That is the way the world works. I drink the kool-aid, so I will just go with the flow

 

[livndisney]

In what way is it currently broken? Serious question.

You stated it was broken LOL

Personally, I never had a hard time understanding a piece of paper that states "return time between 1:30 and 2:00" (Or whatever the fastpass in your hand says.) Cleary WDW intended for FP to be used during that time-not hours later.

 

[DVCLuver82]

In what way is it currently broken? Serious question.

Basically in the way that people are now complaining that the lines will be clogged now that it is working effectively is precisely the problem now. Instead of 120 coming back at one time they now have 250 because everyone who didn't use their fastpasses is running onto Space Mountain at the end of the day. Which is nice for the people earlier in the day when those additional people never showed up, but it's unfair to for the group later. Although, regardless of what the actual problem is they have the times and now they are just sticking to them. Of all the theme parks I've been to Disney by far has the best fast pass system and once it is working correctly I think we'll see even more of an improvement.

 

[nytimez]

Haven't had a chance to read all nine pages... but my understanding is that these changes are not because the current system is "broken" or that it needs to be "fixed" or even that late arrivals are gumming up the system.

Not the case at all, and these changes -- IF they really happen this time -- have nothing to do with the system as it is.

It's because of what's coming next -- which will need to move larger groups of people to specific locations at once to make the whole "plan your trip in advance" stuff work.

The WDW Magic report even implies all this, which has also been suggested in previous reports of the Next Gen system.

 

[larryz]

I don't believe I've ever broken a rule by using a fastpass outside the return window. If I did, I did it with Disney's approval. Choosing to take my vacation dollars elsewhere because of policy changes does not equate to throwing a fit.

It's Disney's park, with Disney's rules. If Disney says it's ok to use a FP after the window, then you didn't break a rule, policy, law, corollary, axiom, or absolute. You broke a suggestion, one that even DISNEY didn't hold you to.

I just wish I were a cop with a laser speed gun tracking all these "rule followers" on the turnpike...

 

[DisGirl1971]

Seriously?! You're going to stop going to Disney because they are finally enforcing the guidelines that people have been taking advantage of? Were you dropped on your head?! That's like saying you're never going grocery shopping again because they won't accept your expired coupons! I've gone to Disney at least once a year since I was born and I've never had a problem getting on all of the rides while following the fast pass windows. I understand that in their handbook they have a section that states that they should let people in past their window, but that was placed in as a courtousy for people who ran into an issue and absolutely couldn't make their time. The point of it was to help make someone's experience magical, not for people to store up on fast passes like a squirrel stores up on nuts and use them at the end of the day. I have no problem with the new rule and in fact I'm excited that they will finally be enforcing it as it will finally allow the fast pass system to work that way that it was meant to.

I'm sorry but you are coming off as a bit clueless here. You should Google Original Disney Fastpass patent and take a nice long gander at all the verbage. There are no less than 10 different scenarios on how to use the Fastpass under that original patent.

 

[savannahcat]

It's Disney's park, with Disney's rules. If Disney says it's ok to use a FP after the window, then you didn't break a rule, policy, law, corollary, axiom, or absolute. You broke a suggestion, one that even DISNEY didn't hold you to.

I just wish I were a cop with a laser speed gun tracking all these "rule followers" on the turnpike...

Thank You!

 

[twokids0204]

Uggggg....

Hopefully this doesn't last to long.