Fastpass Enforcement coming?

[livndisney]

I blame space lizards.

Be careful, they are cruel and they do NOT come in peace. The best way to defend yourself is with

(PORTIONS OF THIS POST HAVE BEEN REDACTED)

But are the space lizards using their fastpass during the stated return time?

 

[Dawgdad]

Originally Posted by StephSalyer View Post
I just wanted to share what happened to me last week re: Fastpass

We arrived at RnR at our specified time window to ride RnR and much to our dismay, about 30 seconds before we got there, a VERY large tour group arrived. There were literally over 100 people in this group and they all had a Fastpasses. When I asked the CM how long the wait would now be she said over 45 minutes (standby was only 30). I asked how they all managed to get a Fastpass for the same time she replied "They didn't, it just so happens all of their return times have already occurred and they hold on to them knowing that most of them can arrive late and ride together." The CM also informed me that one leader from the group will take all of the tickets and get Fastpasses for all of them at the same time.

Sooo as far as my experience goes I am in favor of the enforcement. I admit that I too have held on to Fastpasses knowing we can show up late with no problem but really, is that fair?? We would never expect to arrive 2 or 3 hours late for an ADR and expect to be seated, why is the Fastpass system any different? Personally, I think enforcement will better regulate crowd control and make everyone's experience more magical.

Just think of all the people in the standby ride who got to ride BEFORE those 100 people showed up. Remember RnR runs at capacity - all cars are filled. So for every one of those 100 that don't show up between their "time", 1 standby rider can ride. Approx the same number of people can ride RnR in a day - what difference does it make when the FP user's butt is in the seat and when a standby rider's butt is in the seat?

 

[nytimez]

Those of you arguing are arguing about the wrong thing.

This is NOT about Fastpass. This is about Xpass.

 

[RalphinSC]

I blame space lizards.

Be careful, they are cruel and they do NOT come in peace. The best way to defend yourself is with

(PORTIONS OF THIS POST HAVE BEEN REDACTED)

I Always knew the Space Lizards were behind Next Gen.......

 

[WillAustin]

Approx the same number of people can ride RnR in a day - what difference does it make when the FP user's butt is in the seat and when a standby rider's butt is in the seat?

You are right. It makes no difference. For every person that might feel like they are waiting longer due to a FastPass user, there will be one who absolutely has a shorter wait.

 

[Senator Tressel]

Unfortunately I think that many guests at WDW have become spoiled.

What a hilariously ridiculous premise that people who are CONSUMERS to a vacation destination expressing displeasure at a hypothetical policy change of the destination they are paying to visit are spoiled. Some people are in such a "bubble" when it comes to Disney that they don't get that the consumer is the boss. That's how the free market works. A consumer cannot be spoiled. It's not a charity.

 

[StephSalyer]

Again I will use the ADR example:

When getting a Fastpass you are in a way making a "reservation" for a time to experience the attraction. If you miss your 'reservation" you don't get seated for your ADR. I read the one argument that some attractions operate at capacity all day so what difference does it make? Still using the ADR example, many restaurants operate at capacity all day and the ADRs are enforced to help with crowd control. Same idea with the Fastpass.

Someone help me understand the difference???

I too have used Fastpasses outside of the window but, completely understand if Disney enforces the Fastpass time window. I just look at it that we have been spoiled that we have been allowed to do so for so long. It certainly will not be a deciding factor as to how or where we vacation.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Your argument makes no sense. Disney only gives out "x" amount in a certain period. That way , when you return, you should have a small wait. If there is no set return time, you can have a mad crunch and it makes the FP line 30 min, and makes the line for stand by even longer.
Just because it always runs at full capacity earlier is irrelevant.

In the previous posters example, if 100 extra people show up at RRC in the FP line at the same time, then 4 full cars will be devoted to FP people. The FP line will not get longer, in fact, it gets shorter as they shuttle the line through to keep the waits down.

As for how long the standby line does or doesn't wait, it's irrelevant. They're in standby, the priority is to seat with FP people, fill in with standby. When you get in standby, you know that's how it works. Just like on a plane. You take what ticketed passagers don't take. If you wanted to, for sure, get on the flight... Buy a ticket. Just as if you wanted to not wait in line longer, you should have gotten a FP. The priority in this system is not, never has been, nor should it be standby. It's the FP line.

Your situation was another that was something beyond your control. What I am talking about is people that before they get a FP, no matter what the return time is, are planning to not use it at that time. They just want to be able to do the parks, go to their resort do pool/nap time and then use them at the end of the day.

Sometimes people need to do this. Small kids being what they are (heck, bigger kids being what they are), sometimes breaks need to happen. Otherwise we get the posts about the horrible kids that parents drag through the parks. FP was supposed to level the playing field, make the park less of a challenge, make it more inclusive for families, not make people pick and choose so much. This is the opposite of the whole point of the FP system and does not make it easier for families to enjoy the park.

 

[WillAustin]

Those of you arguing are arguing about the wrong thing.

This is NOT about Fastpass. This is about Xpass.

We could be arguing about whether the XPasses will only be available to those who stay on-property. Or if deluxe resort guests will be able to make more advance ride reservations than guests at other resorts.

 

[doconeill]

Nope. This from my earlier post...
To answer the question about why they print an end time and not simply the earliest time you may enter the FP line:
Because someone realized that people need guidelines. Seriously, it is because having a start and finish gives an appearance of a "reservation" instead of just giving you a time to return (which just seems like you're still waiting, just not in the line). People like an appointment. I am not kidding – it is no more scientific than that.
As stated by others, the original patent amd the oringinal concept of the FP was never predicated upon an end time. The idea of the FP was created because Disney understands that the ONLY time you cannot spend money in the park is when you are a)riding or b)in line. Since they can't do anything about "a", they began to focus on "b". Thus the FP concept. Allow people to spend time doing other things while they would normally be in line. Things like buying food or shopping - anything but standing in a 100% unprofitable line.

I pretty much surmised the same thing...people find it easier to understand they have a variable time to show up in if you actually show a range, rather than say "come back after X:XX"...psychology. Sure, plenty of people here will say they wouldn't see it that way, but I'm sure we can all agree that people are are a bit higher up on the DQ (Disney Quotient, not DisneyQuest) than the average guest...

Your argument makes no sense. Disney only gives out "x" amount in a certain period. That way , when you return, you should have a small wait. If there is no set return time, you can have a mad crunch and it makes the FP line 30 min, and makes the line for stand by even longer.
Just because it always runs at full capacity earlier is irrelevant.

Even in an enforced window, hundreds of FP holders, ALL WITHIN THEIR WINDOW, can show up at exactly the same time, and have the EXACT same effect.

But the odds don't favor it happening. In either case...

I ran across some numbers, which are unverified but I expect to be close to reality, that 80% of all FP users use them within the first 10 minutes of the window. A very small percentage are used after the window. Now what portion of those hold out until the last 30 minutes of park hours in order to have an effect?

Those of you arguing are arguing about the wrong thing.

This is NOT about Fastpass. This is about Xpass.

But it is about changes to Fastpass supposedly (and thus far, only anecdotally) due to X-Pass. And I have yet to see anything about X-Pass that I can see that would necessitate enforcement.

X-Passes requiring enforcement? Sure. I think if you are allowed to select your return time, you should have more restrictions.

 

[iluvwesties]

Awww man.. we arrive on March 7! Our first day in the parks is on the 8th.. so I won't get a chance to find out what really is going on until we get there!
I was counting on using the late FPs. I guess people will have to pay attention to return times so they don't coincide with ADRs. It will be a bummer to walk all the way over to an attraction to find out the FP return time won't work for you.

This has me thinking.. is there a phone app with FastPass return times listed?

Same dates for me, think my touring plan has gone down the toilet!

 

[DisGirl1971]

I'm not sure how I'm coming off "clueless", but I was referring to the concept that was behind the fast pass. I understand that in the operational reminder it states that someone can use it past the window, but again this was placed in as a courtesy for people who missed their original window...if it was policy to just get a fast pass and come back whenever you wanted then it wasn't necessary to place a window on it or write an SOP on how to handle the situation when someone comes up with an expired pass. The fact of the matter is my main post was in response to people boycotting Disney because they decided to enforcing the original intent which should be a non-issue.

You are coming off clueless because you think Fastpasses or Fastpass return times are given out as a courtesy to guests at Walt Disney World. They were created to make Disney more money than they were previously making with everyone standing around in 2 hour + lines. And if you did take the time to Google those Fastpass patents and guidelines you would see that Disney has numerous way to use their Fastpass system and by enforcing the Fastpass return time they are simply using one of the many scenarios, not "using Fastpass the way it was designed," indicating that you think that is the one and only way it should implemented. When, in fact, Fastpass was designed to be used in a number of different ways - none more moral or lawabiding than the other, contrary to what the "rule followers" around here think. Disney isn't making this descision to cut down on all those "rule breakers" that are being reprimanded in this thread, they are doing this because: 1) They feel it will have a better affect on their bottom line and/or 2) it's to implement the new Gen-X, Xpass, or whatever the hell it is.

You may also want to check out Post #158 of this thread.

And the whole "dropped on your head" thing wasn't clueless, just sh*tty.

 

[TLSnell1981]

The WDW Magic report even implies all this, which has also been suggested in previous reports of the Next Gen system.

And, that's another can of worms. If, some of the rumored changes are true? There will be fireworks of a different kind.

 

[nytimez]

We could be arguing about whether the XPasses will only be available to those who stay on-property. Or if deluxe resort guests will be able to make more advance ride reservations than guests at other resorts.

Indeed, it would be a much more productive argument at this point.

But it is about changes to Fastpass supposedly (and thus far, only anecdotally) due to X-Pass. And I have yet to see anything about X-Pass that I can see that would necessitate enforcement.

X-Passes requiring enforcement? Sure. I think if you are allowed to select your return time, you should have more restrictions.

If true, it's to set things up for Xpass. It will need enforcement because they aren't just giving people a ticket to a couple of rides and telling them when to come back -- that, as you know better than anyone, doesn't require people returning on time.

Xpass will require people setting their own times (to a point -- times will be booked and unavailable of course), to multiple attractions -- the bulk of all major attractions -- in advance. It will require moving large numbers of people to specific places at specific times.

It will suck. That's the argument that should be had.

Anyone who thinks the supposed enforcement of FP return times -- IF it happens -- is because Disney suddenly decided it can't handle late returns after more than a decade of doing so just fine is smokin' something.

 

[jjk3]

As stated by others, the original patent amd the oringinal concept of the FP was never predicated upon an end time. The idea of the FP was created because Disney understands that the ONLY time you cannot spend money in the park is when you are a)riding or b)in line. Since they can't do anything about "a", they began to focus on "b". Thus the FP concept. Allow people to spend time doing other things while they would normally be in line. Things like buying food or shopping - anything but standing in a 100% unprofitable line.

Bingo. I have two small children (3 and 5). My wife and I seem to feel more at ease/willing to stroll through shops or stop for snacks when we feel like we have gotten to see experience some things. If we look at our watches and think "man, we have been here two hours and have been on two rides", we (besides feeling frustrated) will not be in the mood to linger at that point - and inevitably spend $$ on something for kids (or us).

We also really try to avoid long lines anyhow because we have small children. I know lines are fun for no one.

This is unfortunate as I finally convinced my wife to buy into the "ropedrop/morning fastpass collection/afternoon break" touring plan for our upcoming trip this June . I was looking forward to one of the more efficient trips we have had - which is really important because our past trips have all been in Feb, Oct, and Nov (much smaller crowds).

 

[Dawgdad]

Your argument makes no sense. Disney only gives out "x" amount in a certain period. That way , when you return, you should have a small wait. If there is no set return time, you can have a mad crunch and it makes the FP line 30 min, and makes the line for stand by even longer.
Just because it always runs at full capacity earlier is irrelevant.

Umm. They give out "x" amount in a certain period to assure that some standby users can still ride. In a 100% FP world, the number of passes given out would equal the daily capacity for the ride - spaced out over the day. Which is what some people say is coming to all theme parks - basically some sort of real-time reservation system for popular rides.

But to say that full capacity is irrelevant ignores the most basic principles of theme park/crowd/ride management. Full capacity rides are exactly what drove the entire FP concept. To allow people to basically "wait in line" for a popular ride somewhere other than in line. Disney would much prefer you spend the 40 minute wait time in a store buying something rather than in a non revenue-generating ride queue.

In a perfect world for Disney, every person in the park would attain a FP and enter thru the FP line. This would result in the perfect scenario in regards to revenue where no one was standing around in line with their wallets in their pocket.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

As for those saying they won't return to Disney if this is enforced, this system has only been in place for a little over 10 years and I honestly don't even know how long the policy of accepting late FP has been in place. Did you never attend Disney before?

I did.

Is the FP system as implemented really the reason you go to Disney?

The knowledge that there is a system in place for me to ride the rides I like without having to stand in line 30, 40, 50, 60+ minutes plays a factor in my trips to Disney, yes. We don't go in summer because I don't want to compete for rides, FP's, rope drops, sit for 2 hours to see fireworks from a good vantage point, etc. We go in off or low seasons, use FP, ride the rides we want and pick out stuff we want to ride more than once and make it a priority without having to sacrafice the other parts of Disney we enjoy.

I dare say I'm not in the minority when I say that the amount of time they're spending in line is a key player in Disney vacation plans, juding by the trip outlines, travel plans, and crowd reports people ask about with regularity. I think it's fair to say people don't want to spend thousands of dollars on a vacation knowing that out of every hour, 2 minutes of it will be spent on a ride and 58 minutes of it in a line.

I have been going to Disney since 1972 and have been in short lines, long lines, stand by lines, and FP lines. Yes the FP system is a great convenience but, at least for me, it is only a minute thing compared to Disney as a whole.

Not for me. If I'm spending a majority of my day or vacation waiting, I'm not having fun, I'm not using my vacation time wisely, and I will not plan to go back.

 

[carrie6466]

I agree. I'd drop *everything* to ride Slash Mountain.

LOL I was thinking of the last time we ate at Crystal Palace and ended up not being seated until 45 minutes after our ADR time Thanks for noticing, because I didn't. Think Slash Mt. would be as much fun as Splash, even though it might be ??

It's a sad day in NE

Hi miprender!! Nice to see you here

We have owned DVC since 1997...best decision ever...and that was before fast pass. No regrets

I guess if families really feel this way(not going because of fastpass enforcement), the crowds should more manageable for the rest of us.

We've only owned DVC since last year, but ITA.

The enforcement, or the thread?

Both

 

[Dawgdad]

I think I will bow out at this point. It's been fun. Just remember, I'm just a Disney lover like everyone else - I really don't want to argue about this. I happen to be pretty close to someone who is pretty knowledgeable about the FP - Scott has been in Anaheim since before FP started and has been indirectly involved in its operations. I have personally seen charts and models that detail ride/rider statistics with and without FP. Once you view this from a simple numbers perspective and not as live people walking around in Goofy hats you begin to understand that FP is nothing more than a tool for maximizing the time that people (who want to ride a particular ride) spend OUTSIDE of the queue line. Again, the only time you are not an active potential revenue source that can potentially add to Disney's bottom line is when you are in a ride line.

 

[Dawgdad]

BTW - truth be told, I miss the old days when you stood in line for 2 hours in the hot Florida sun waiting to ride 20,000 Leagues. It was a much simpler time.