Fastpass Enforcement coming?

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What I can't figure out is......... how does everyone KNOW that the late FP users contributed to a "long-ish" wait later in the day? Did they survey all the guests in line to see if they had used their FPs late?

We hardly ever use a FP "on time". But we don't use them all late at night either. Mostly we picked them up as we toured the park, then went used them throughout the day as we were near a given attraction again.

To be honest, in all the times we've used one "late" in the day, I've never noticed a backup or wait any longer than our typical fastpass return wait earlier in the day.

I think the only potentially credible report I've heard was about a big tour group using them en masse late. And I'm STILL not convinced the tour groups won't get special treatment under the new rules anyway.
 
I didn't read the whole thread :guilty:, but I think we're just going to take a wait and see attitude. We're going in May. If we don't think we can get back during our window, we won't get FPs for that ride at that time. If its a ride worth waiting for, we'll wait. If not, there's plenty of other wonderful experiences waiting for us so we'll move on!
 
When I went to Disney for the first time after the introduction of FP (about 6 or so years ago) we had no idea you couldn't use them after the time printed, so we scheduled our day around fastpasses. If we got to a machine and saw that the return time was while we had an ADR, we had to pass on that FP. It really did work out fine for us and I don't really see a huge problem going back to that method.
 
Fastpasses, as they exist, are actually a total failure.

One reason they were inaugurated was the expectation that instead of lining up for an attraction, people would go to food service or merchandise locations and spend money. However, after a year it was found that the only increase in sales was due to price increases and not an actual increase in volume.

Also, the Parks were designed with the expectation that (other than for parades and fireworks) a certain percentage of Guests would be in queues for the attractions at all times. Since the advent of the Fastpass, there are more people aimlessly wandering the Parks making them appear to be more crowded.

So if Disney were to totally eliminate the Fastpass, average waits for attractions would remain about the same or even go down, and the Parks would not appear to be as crowded.

Although it could be considered a failure (and Disney would never admit it), I'm not sure that it had NO effect. At least some guests are going and getting food, etc. while they wait. We certainly do sometimes (not all the time). We probably get a bit more food, instead of splitting something between too people because we have to rush. It may not come close to covering the expense of the system itself however. And it may just redistribute when people spend, instead of spending more in most of those cases anyways.

But there is also the customer satisfaction side. I firmly believe that I can do more things because I'm not spending time in the lines, so we can do things we otherwise wouldn't do, including just "enjoying it". I am much more satisfied with my trips with Fastpass.

DISers represent only a fraction (very tiny) of guests.
There are many ways a guest could have learned of the FP "loophole"
The guest might have run late for a FP and realised that late FP worked. He could have been told by a friend or someone in the know. He could have been informed by a caring guest at the FP machines. Or he could have read it anywhere over the internet, and even get to this info by mere accident while browsing for something totally unrelated.

And even if DISers represent a tiny fraction of guests, they still represent a pretty good snapshot of the guests using FPs
Using FP require at least a tiny bit of preparation and planning. Want proof ? Read the threads here and there on DIS, you'll come across accounts of guests not even knowing FPs were free and not daring to use them at all.
So you need to get information before using FPs, and if you get such information, the late return perk becomes obvious pretty soon, as it the info is all over the internet.

So I would question your "single digit" asumption. And even if we consider that DIS is a "special place on planet Mickey" if might be a safe bet to say that half of FP users do actually intend on using them later than the scheduled return time

I've said before - if it was really as rampant as the polls show, we'd see FAR MORE complaints about the lines getting clogged up at the end of the day, etc. I do NOT believe the DIS reflects the overall makeup of guests in terms of knowledge, planning, etc. We can see it when new people join the boards and say, "I didn't know that!".

In an attraction with a 2000 guests/hour capacity, open for a 12 hour park day, that's 24,000 guests. Say half of that is FP, or 12,000. If just 10% of the FP users intentionally use them late, say in the last two hours, that's 1,200 additional Fastpass users in that time, on top of the 2,000 FP users using them on time. That is a significant difference.


Sorry, don't see how that one passes the basic logic test. If you have 20k guest in the park, regardless if they are in one line or another, you have the same number of guests in the park. If FP makes them "wander aimlessy" and the park appear more crowded, that means the wait times are actually less. So eliminating the FP would make wait times increase and the park seem less crowded. If FP system helps reduce wait times by making people "wander aimlessly" that is a customer service bonus because while the park might seem crowded in public areas, guest wait times are reduced.

Actually, in theory it shouldn't have affected wait times at all on average, although because you have to defer your ride time there is a bit of change for the better at least early on.

But once you think about it, there is a sizable fraction of guests that grab a Fastpass, but then get in line somewhere else, or even the same attraction. So it does increase the wait times a bit. Eliminating Fastpass would eliminate the "wait in two lines at the same time aspect". But even that is mitigated to a point by the fact that you can't get another FP for a certain amount of time. (mathematically, if you grab a Fastpass, and then go to another line, you have a negative effect if the time you spend in that line is longer than the time it takes to get another FP, plus the time it would take you to get through the standby line of the attraction you have the FP for - a bit difficult to explain - but that's more of a problem earlier than later when your "next fastpass" times are shorter.)
 

Hmm... I've always been a stickler for rules! :rotfl2:

I don't think it would bother me all that much. We tended to show up around the time given anyway.

But I'll keep an eye open on this thread for when we go in May.

Fore-warned is fore-armed etc.
 
What I can't figure out is......... how does everyone KNOW that the late FP users contributed to a "long-ish" wait later in the day? Did they survey all the guests in line to see if they had used their FPs late?

We hardly ever use a FP "on time". But we don't use them all late at night either. Mostly we picked them up as we toured the park, then went used them throughout the day as we were near a given attraction again.

To be honest, in all the times we've used one "late" in the day, I've never noticed a backup or wait any longer than our typical fastpass return wait earlier in the day.

I think the only potentially credible report I've heard was about a big tour group using them en masse late. And I'm STILL not convinced the tour groups won't get special treatment under the new rules anyway.

In all sincereity, we don't know how it will work if allowed to work as it's suppose to because it's never been that way. The backup you DO see may very well be only because of late returns. I'm not speculating. I'm just stating a possibility. We really won't know until it cleans up and we see what the net effect is. What we're all calling our norm never included a time when FP were enforced only as designed.
 
It's a fact, not speculation, come March 7th, Disney will enforce FP windows. Disney knows, they can exact a price for this benefit. Now, we can sit back and speculate.. How much will the XPass cost? Will it be available only to a select few? Maybe, it it will be part of a package?
.

I don't know anything more that anybody else on this subject, but in my business when I look to price something I look to the competition for starters. So I went to Universal's website and these are the numbers I came up with. (I should mention here that I have never gone to Universal. These numbers were obtained in about 5 minutes, so we may want to look to somebody with some actual experience.)

Universal has something called Express Pass, yep kid you not, right there on their website. Who came up with the X-Pass name was that Disboards or Disney? The Express pass allows you to ride each Express pass ride once anytime you want during that day. (Looks like their big ride Harry Potter is not an Express pass ride) It is $70 for both parks per day. Do they have something like fastpass for the people that do not buy Express pass?

Anyway that is what the competition is doing and their pricing.

Edit: It does look like that $70 price can vary depending on season. I just picked a date during July that we are going to WDW, so I guess that would be peak pricing (or as our family likes to call normal pricing:)
 
/
I don't know anything more that anybody else on this subject, but in my business when I look to price something I look to the competition for starters. So I went to Universal's website and these are the numbers I came up with. (I should mention here that I have never gone to Universal. These numbers were obtained in about 5 minutes, so we may want to look to somebody with some actual experience.)

Universal has something called Express Pass, yep kid you not, right there on their website. Who came up with the X-Pass name was that Disboards or Disney? The Express pass allows you to ride each Express pass ride once anytime you want during that day. (Looks like their big ride Harry Potter is not an Express pass ride) It is $70 for both parks per day. Do they have something like fastpass for the people that do not buy Express pass?

Anyway that is what the competition is doing and their pricing.

Edit: It does look like that $70 price can vary depending on season. I just picked a date during July that we are going to WDW, so I guess that would be peak pricing (or as our family likes to call normal pricing:)

We already know about the Express Pass. Actually it's called "Express Plus". And the price does vary on season (as low as $20 for one park/day). There is also an unlimited version they their resort guests get, and a VIP version that can be purchased that is also unlimited.

But that really doesn't have much bearing on what Disney is doing. Disney has all sorts of options, and we haven't seen exactly how it is to be used yet.

X-Pass is, as far as I know, at least the internal name of the new system. Whether it retains that name when released to the public is unknown, but I don't know any legal reason they can't call it that. There does not appear to be any trademark on it (or XPass) currently except for an electronic part.
 
Sorry, the FP rules we try to follow, but life happens. I don't feel like I should have to beg a CM to ride.[/QUOTE]

You don't have to beg. If you've missed your FP window, just step right into the SB line. Voila!
 
What I can't figure out is......... how does everyone KNOW that the late FP users contributed to a "long-ish" wait later in the day? Did they survey all the guests in line to see if they had used their FPs late?

We hardly ever use a FP "on time". But we don't use them all late at night either. Mostly we picked them up as we toured the park, then went used them throughout the day as we were near a given attraction again.

To be honest, in all the times we've used one "late" in the day, I've never noticed a backup or wait any longer than our typical fastpass return wait earlier in the day.

I think the only potentially credible report I've heard was about a big tour group using them en masse late. And I'm STILL not convinced the tour groups won't get special treatment under the new rules anyway.

Agreed. That's exactly how we used them. Looked at the start time and then used them when we were back in the area again after that time. We also occasionally (twice, that I can think of) waited because the FastPass return line seemed currently too long. We just came back later when it was less crowded.

As for FastPass being a failure. If Disney did NOT implement something like this, they would have LOST money, because other theme/amusement parks had already pioneered the way-around-the-long-lines concept in various formats to great guest reaction. That No. 1 guest complaint about theme parks, in survey after survey, remains time spent waiting in line. Whether or not it actually increased food and souvenir revenue (which HAVE undoubtably, by Disney's own financial reports, gone exponentially up over the last decade by some means, be it cheaper productions costs, raised prices or more time to shop), it definitely increased guest satisfaction, as Disney's own polls have shown repeatedly, and that increases repeat business. A MUCH bigger revenue increase than any extra food and bev spending could ever hope to have.
 
Why is Disney doing this change anyway?? Will it really make a difference and what kind of difference is Disney looking for??

I don't see where it would matter when you used the pass...either you walk right on or wait a little while or maybe as long as stand by...not sure what this will do for the system??

BArb


Of course it matters when you use the FP. That's why it clearly tells you when to return. Otherwise it would say "Come back at your convenience." Then, what would be the point?

FP works best when ridership is evenly dispersed throughout the operating day. Guests who choose to ride at a time other than when their FP indicates (about 25% of users) make a significant impact. This is one reason Disney is returning to stricter enforcement. (I'm sure there are others.)
 
Sorry, the FP rules we try to follow, but life happens. I don't feel like I should have to beg a CM to ride.


You don't have to beg. If you've missed your FP window, just step right into the SB line. Voila![/QUOTE]

Agree completely. What gets me is that there's absolutely no legitimate excuse for missing a fast pass return time.
 
Of course it matters when you use the FP. That's why it clearly tells you when to return. Otherwise it would say "Come back at your convenience." Then, what would be the point?

FP works best when ridership is evenly dispersed throughout the operating day. Guests who choose to ride at a time other than when their FP indicates (about 25% of users) make a significant impact. This is one reason Disney is returning to stricter enforcement. (I'm sure there are others.)

Source, please. Or are we making up numbers?
 
Of course it matters when you use the FP. That's why it clearly tells you when to return. Otherwise it would say "Come back at your convenience." Then, what would be the point?

FP works best when ridership is evenly dispersed throughout the operating day. Guests who choose to ride at a time other than when their FP indicates (about 25% of users) make a significant impact. This is one reason Disney is returning to stricter enforcement. (I'm sure there are others.)

The significance of the impact is debatable. Where did you get 25% from? My poll? My poll does NOT reflect WDW guests as a whole, only those on the DIS, which even I have said does not reflect the WDW guest population as a whole, and if it was really that high, the lines at park close would be a DISASTER.

Numbers that have been batted around (but unverified) also don't really support it to be that high.
 
Agree completely. What gets me is that there's absolutely no legitimate excuse for missing a fast pass return time.

Where ya been? We've been missing you!

My favorite: no legitimate excuse. As in none, nada, zip, zilch, and zero? You missed the bulletproof golden ticket one pages and pages back. ;)
 
What I can't figure out is......... how does everyone KNOW that the late FP users contributed to a "long-ish" wait later in the day? Did they survey all the guests in line to see if they had used their FPs late?

There is a department at Disney that plans, monitors, evaluates, and tweaks the FP system at all parks/attractions. That's all they do. It's probably safe to guess that they have determined that late FP usage compromises the process, and are making changes accordingly.
 
Source, please. Or are we making up numbers?

Hello, Best DIS Avatar ever,

Friend was told at a staff meeting, just prior to the March 7 announcement.
My guess, though is this: On March 7, what will actually happen, are a lot of statements like this: (at the FP entrances) "Today, as a courtesy, we can admit you beyond your designated time. However, in the future, please return at the time indicated on your FP."
 
There is a department at Disney that plans, monitors, evaluates, and tweaks the FP system at all parks/attractions. That's all they do. It's probably safe to guess that they have determined that late FP usage compromises the process, and are making changes accordingly.

Or, laying the groundwork for a new system.
 
Where ya been? We've been missing you!

My favorite: no legitimate excuse. As in none, nada, zip, zilch, and zero? You missed the bulletproof golden ticket one pages and pages back. ;)

Work has gotten in the way of the board. You missed my post a page or so back. It was especially for you.
 
What gets me is that there's absolutely no legitimate excuse for missing a fast pass return time.

God forbid you ever have a medical emergency.

My favorite: no legitimate excuse. As in none, nada, zip, zilch, and zero? You missed the bulletproof golden ticket one pages and pages back. ;)

I forgot to mention - I actually HELD one of the REAL Wonka's Golden Tickets, the one that belonged to Julie Dawn Cole. So I get unlimited Fastpasses for life, right?

This original image is large, here is a thumbnail, but click for the whole thing. I stupidly didn't get a picture of me holding it...

 
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