F9/11 - Heat is on

[jrydberg]

Several items... first, according to the 9/11 commission's timeline, President Bush remained in the classroom for 5 to 7 minutes, not 11. Getting into interpretations about what the look on his face meant is a fairly pointless exercise IMO.

Second, the chartered flights were appropriately screened by the FBI. Appropriately screened does not mean they had to question every one of the passengers.

Third, airspace was opened. After going through an appropriate screening process, why should they not be allowed to leave?

 

[faithinkarma]

Airspace was not open to charter flights. Except for these people, no one was allowed to fly on charter flights.

They did not need to question all the passengers? Wow, I'm not that trusting, sorry. We're not talking thousands of people here...less than 100 who were alowed to leave without questioning....how long would questioning have taken?

Respectfully, I would ask, if this hapened under a different president, would you still take it so lightly?

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by acepepper
He sat there for eleven minutes, ELEVEN MINUTES. This is the President of the USA, who's just heard his country is under attack. In that context eleven minutes is an eternity. He didn't have to jump up and start running around like a headless chicken, he could have quietly made his excuses and left in a dignified manner. Not sat there like a frightened rabbit waiting for someone else to make a decision for him.

I guess you missed this post...

first, according to the 9/11 commission's timeline, President Bush remained in the classroom for 5 to 7 minutes, not 11.

Please stop trying to rewrite history.

 

[faithinkarma]

in fairness to Acepepper, it should be noted that jrydberg posted the corrected time frame 12 minutes after acepepper posted the incorrect one....hardly seems right to accuse someone of rewriting history under these circumstances does it?

 

[Disney Enthusiast]

faithinkarma: Sorry for the misunderstanding. I honestly thought you were directing your post at me. However, I do agree w/ the other posters that believe one can give an opinion on a movie he/she has not seen yet. For example, if I didn't care for Pulp Fiction, then I might not care for Reservoir Dogs or Kill Bill because I would know that Quentin Tarrantino has a propensity to use a lot of violence in his films. Unless, he made a point to tell his audience that the movie was of a different genre or something, I would probably end up skipping it from my previous experience. That's all. MM's track record has proven himself thus far to me, and unless he makes some changes, I'll probably feel the same way about him for a long time. I just can't trust him, and I don't like that he makes me believe something, and then I find out he faked me out. Like the bank incident he staged. I don't like the tricks he plays.

Nancy: I'm sorry that you are getting upset by the posts of recent days. Although, he has made a point to get political as of late, I personally don't think discussing MM movies to be political bashing threads. A lot of people have issues w/ his tactics in Columbine and that horrible massacre occured on Clinton's watch. I know this new movie deals w/ the Bush Administration, and he has said he wants Bush out of office, but I think most people, like myself, are upset w/ MM's tactics and truth of content, rather than political persuasion. MM said w/ Matt Lauer the other day that he bashed Clinton, bashed Gore, and now Bush, and that he didn't vote for any one of them. Maybe he does hate all politicians... I don't know. But he has bashed both ends of the spectrum, and I, for one, dislike MM's tactics towards both ends of the spectrum, not just his bashing of President Bush. If he did this to ExPresident Clinton, I'd still be upset w/ his tactics. JMO. Sorry you are so upset.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by faithinkarma
in fairness to Acepepper, it should be noted that jrydberg posted the corrected time frame 12 minutes after acepepper posted the incorrect one....hardly seems right to accuse someone of rewriting history under these circumstances does it?

This info is also public record. While jrydberg's post did come after acepepper's, I still object to the attempts to rewrite history, regardless of the time stamps on the posts.

 

[momof2inPA]

Michael Moore's website has a list of theaters scheduled to show F 9/11, if anyone hasn't checked yet.

http://www.f911tix.com/

 

[jrydberg]

Respectfully, I would ask, if this hapened under a different president, would you still take it so lightly?

It's not that I'm taking it lightly. My point is that Moore leads one to believe there was no scrutiny at all for these people. That's not the case.

And I don't think it particularly matters who the president is. I'm not into partisan politics. I tend to be more libertarian than anything.

I've got plenty of problems with George W. Bush... notably spending, immigration, stem cell research, legislating morality, etc. I'm not his biggest fan. But I don't see any cause to fault him for his actions regarding 9/11.

 

[acepepper]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954
I guess you missed this post... Please stop trying to rewrite history.

I took the 11 minutes from the review of the film posted by faithinkarma. If that's wrong, then I accept my mistake. But even 5-7 minutes is far too long to be sitting there doing sweet FA when the United States of America is under attack.

 

[Disney Enthusiast]

I may be incorrect here..... but did any of us think we were under attack when the first plane hit? I mean I heard a lot of people who thought it was a mistake, it was a smaller plane (not a commercial flight), whatever, but few of us jumped to the conclusion that the entire United States was under attack..... until #2 hit. Maybe his Chief of Staff was apprising him of the situation, which in turn allowed him to keep interacting w/ the kids and not scare them, and was getting to the bottom of it. Like disneydad2 said... I doubt any President of the U.S. is more than seconds away from his cabinet. And Dr. Rice admitted that she told the President a smaller plane hit the WTC leaning more towards a horrible accident rather than an extreme terrorist attack. JMO.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by acepepper
I took the 11 minutes from the review of the film posted by faithinkarma. If that's wrong, then I accept my mistake. But even 5-7 minutes is far too long to be sitting there doing sweet FA when the United States of America is under attack.

Of course we all know that everything in this film is 100% accurate. By all means, let's treat anything MM says as absolute truth and ignore the real facts.

5-7 minutes was too long to sit there -- this was the announcement of the FIRST plane flying into the WTC. That's all the information anyone had ... there was no way to draw a conclusion that "the United States of America is under attack." At that point in time, no one knew the extent of what was going to happen on that day. It took several minutes for most media outlets to report it was a passenger plane and even more minutes to identify the flight. Therefore, your hindsight criticism is completely without merit. Nice try, though.

 

[faithinkarma]

I believe he was being informed of the second plane hitting. Once that second plane crashed few had any doubt of what was happening.

 

[Disney Enthusiast]

I TIVOed the Today Show and guess who was interviewed by Katie..... none other than our Michael Moore. He said a few interesting tidbits I thought were appropriate for this thread....

"..... and we haven't heard the other side of the story.... We haven't seen the truth.... at least what I think is the truth."

Katie then said, "The world according to Michael Moore?"

Katie said that the MM hired a lawyer (MM corrected her and said 3 lawyers) to defend him against the White House, but that so far, they are ignoring him. But MM stated that he did get one review from a White House Rep who called MM's movie outrageously false, but when MM asked if he saw the movie, he said, "No."

He then said after watching the film himself, he should've been tougher on Bush citing the school incident and the "7 minutes" and how he should not have sat there for that length of time. Then he said the President stayed at the school for another 1/2 hour. Katie said he was in the conference room talking w/ his people, and MM said, but if the country was being attacked, the President is a prime target and was endangering the kids.

Then MM told Katie the media was not doing their job and asking the right questions. She differed in opinion and was visibly miffed. They talked about that for a few minutes and then she moved him along to some viewer questions ..... One of which was what he does w/ all the money he makes and that he should give some to charities for the victims like Stephen Spielberg did for Schindler's List. MM said he does just that (which I heard that he does not so I don't know if I got inaccurate info or if he is lying)...

AND this is the kicker, he said he spends the rest of the money (after giving to the victim's funds) on buying more big yachts and larger mansions for myself. Ha ha. And Katie said, "Well, you are obviously not spending it on your wardrobe." And he and she laughed! And then he went "Whoa!" And struck a pose for the camera.

 

[ToriLammy]

Originally posted by Disney Enthusiast
I may be incorrect here..... but did any of us think we were under attack when the first plane hit? I mean I heard a lot of people who thought it was a mistake, it was a smaller plane (not a commercial flight), whatever, but few of us jumped to the conclusion that the entire United States was under attack..... until #2 hit. Maybe his Chief of Staff was apprising him of the situation, which in turn allowed him to keep interacting w/ the kids and not scare them, and was getting to the bottom of it. Like disneydad2 said... I doubt any President of the U.S. is more than seconds away from his cabinet. And Dr. Rice admitted that she told the President a smaller plane hit the WTC leaning more towards a horrible accident rather than an extreme terrorist attack. JMO.

I think you are correct. I believe majority of individuals on the morning of 9/11 did not think it was an attack until the 2nd plane hit the world trade center. I remember it vividly, watching GMA as they reported the first strike and the amazement, horror, disbelief etc in their voices as the 2nd plane struck while they were on air. Until that point I think most believed it was just a horrible accident caused by pilot error or air traffic control problems. I think anyone who says otherwise is probably letting 20/20 hindsight cloud their memory.

 

[faithinkarma]

I don't believe anyone is saying they knew it was an attack after the first plane hit. What is being said, is that when the president is told in the classroom, he is being told about the second plane hitting. A quick search will bring up many sites giving the chronology.

http://www.cooperativeresearch.net/timeline/main/essayaninterestingday.html

http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/bush-911.htm

 

[charlie,nj]

I don’t think OUR president did any thing wrong with staying in the class for those few minutes. If my sons were in that class I would rather he stayed and left slowly..but like someone posted ..dammed if you do… dammed if you don’t.

I was standing at a rest stop on the NJ Turnpike about 2 miles away from the WTC watching the smoke from the first plane hitting and thinking my God what a horrible accident I hope not many people were hurt. Then as I watched I saw the second plane come in and hit…I was shocked but still didn’t think we were under attack. I thought something happened to our radar system.

I continued onto work as usual…listening to the radio and praying for the injured. If President Bush is bad for not running out of that classroom then I am the worst father in the world because I left my 2 sons in schools that were a very few miles away from the WTC.

PS - I did leave work later on to get my sons..

 

[Duck/Fish]

Originally posted by charlie,nj

I continued onto work as usual…listening to the radio and praying for the injured. If President Bush is bad for not running out of that classroom then I am the worst father in the world because I left my 2 sons in schools that were a very few miles away from the WTC.

The only difference is that Bush is the leader of our country. Even if it was "just" a radar problem, he needs to act quick and find out more information immediately. The WTC has been targeted before.

 

[shortbun]

Originally posted by Disney Enthusiast
I may be incorrect here..... but did any of us think we were under attack when the first plane hit? I mean I heard a lot of people who thought it was a mistake, it was a smaller plane (not a commercial flight), whatever, but few of us jumped to the conclusion that the entire United States was under attack..... until #2 hit. Maybe his Chief of Staff was apprising him of the situation, which in turn allowed him to keep interacting w/ the kids and not scare them, and was getting to the bottom of it. Like disneydad2 said... I doubt any President of the U.S. is more than seconds away from his cabinet. And Dr. Rice admitted that she told the President a smaller plane hit the WTC leaning more towards a horrible accident rather than an extreme terrorist attack. JMO.

Maybe I'm paranoid but in my office, when my boss said someone
flew a plane into the WTC, he and I discussed terrorist attack.
I was a travel agent at the time and knew the chances of accidently crashing into one of the biggest bldgs in the world and
a plane being in that air space to begin with meant nothing but
trouble. I'd think and hope the president knew these things too.
I mean-he's not some rookie imbecile, is he?

 

[charlie,nj]

A lot of people in this area (NYC) were thinking that it was an accident at first ..like this one…


1945 Plane Crash Rocked NYC
Empire State Building Hit
by Military Plane, 14 Killed


plane crash

 

[jrydberg]

Frankly, if the criticism people have of President Bush on September 11th, 2001 is that he spent a few too many minutes in a classroom, then he's doing pretty well. The nature of the position is that people will criticize you no matter what.