Explosions and shootings in Paris

[asta]

Of course not. But, statistics would tell me that I have a MUCH greater chance of being killed by a homegrown American terrorist than a refugee or foreign terrorist. I'm just saying that people are losing sight of what the ACTUAL risk is in favor of hysteria over a perceived risk.

So far this year, more than 11,000 people have died from gun violence in this country, 616 of them small children. (http://www.gunviolencearchive.org). That's a lot. How many Americans have died from terrorist attacks this year? Way, way less. Even counting 9-11, the Boston Marathon bombing, and the Fort Hood shooting, we've lost many, many times that many lives to gun violence.

Now, should we worry about terrorism? Sure. But, let's keep the hysteria in check.

Once again, why deflect from the issue at hand by bringing up other instances of evil? Deaths of all innocents are horrible but that does not mean that we should be any less horrified by ISIS and try to prevent their evil. I fully support ending gun violence. It has cost us a horrendous amount of loss. But that is another issue that does not take away from the horror we are facing with ISIS.

 

[RedAngie]

What I don't understand is how normal people (not psychopaths, etc) are attracted to organizations like ISIS. Then again, I didn't understand who people joined groups like Jim Jones' People's Temple and the Branch Davidians. I think there must be a cult-like aspect to all of them.

"Normal" people aren't attracted to such organizations. Those who are attracted are already seriously flawed and sign up because they find the ideologies of such groups quite palatable.

 

[rickybobby]

The answer to your question is obvious. White, anglo-saxon lives are more important than those other lives. I hate to say that. But, we all know it's true.

I don't think you hate saying it. I think you rather enjoy saying it. And you seem to believe everything is about skin color.

 

[nanienamou]

I think this anonymous lifestyle you describe is a break down in society that allows these people to exist. This is not the way many Americans live. I know my neighbors and suspicions would be raised if the illogical lifestyle of these terrorists was taking place next door. I have no problems with what my neighbors know. My next door neighbor has a key to my home, no secrets. Maybe we are just dull people but I have nothing to hide.

Seriously? So you investigate your neighbors to be aware of their employment status, their social activities, their affiliations, their religion, their financial status, their health? This is just nonsensical. We live in a free society. You can't give yourself the right to impede on their freedom of others. When you chose to live in a free society, you must learn to live and let live. You want to be free, you need to let others be free too.

 

[gwynne]

Once again, why deflect from the issue at hand by bringing up other instances of evil? Deaths of all innocents are horrible but that does not mean that we should be any less horrified by ISIS and try to prevent their evil. I fully support ending gun violence. It has cost us a horrendous amount of loss. But that is another issue that does not take away from the horror we are facing with ISIS.

I think it comes up because of the sheer numbers. Not deflecting, just point out one often only merits a shrug, the other gets our full attention. They both should matter.
Hopefully we can work on both, at the same time. We need to.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

I think this anonymous lifestyle you describe is a break down in society that allows these people to exist. This is not the way many Americans live. I know my neighbors and suspicions would be raised if the illogical lifestyle of these terrorists was taking place next door. I have no problems with what my neighbors know. My next door neighbor has a key to my home, no secrets. Maybe we are just dull people but I have nothing to hide.

If you live in a big city there is no way to get to know all of your neighbours. Nor would you want to.

Plus the thought of one of my neighbours having a key to my home makes me shudder in horror.

 

[Suger Mag]

Boston marathon bombers were refugees.

So what? Millions of our citizens are refugees or immigrants... Einstein was a refugee. My family who came over with the Puritans were refugees. Is your point really because of these two nut jobs (marathon bombers) happened to have immigrated to this county, that ALL refugees or immigrants are universally bad?

this might be interesting to you:

http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c74-page4.html

 

[asta]

If you live in a big city there is no way to get to know all of your neighbours. Nor would you want to.

Plus the thought of one of my neighbours having a key to my home makes me shudder in horror.

That is sad.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I don't think you hate saying it. I think you rather enjoy saying it. And you seem to believe everything is about skin color.

Sadly, it is for some because they are taught to hate. And, it not always the ones some suspect.

 

[pat fan]

So what? Millions of our citizens are refugees or immigrants... Einstein was a refugee. My family who came over with the Puritans were refugees. Is your point really because of these two nut jobs (marathon bombers) happened to have immigrated to this county, that ALL refugees or immigrants are universally bad?

this might be interesting to you:

http://www.unhcr.org/pages/49c3646c74-page4.html

I was replying to the statement asking for a terrorist in the last 35 years who was a refugee.

 

[AnnaFloridaLover]

That is sad.

Why is that sad? My neighbour is an alcoholic nutcase. I doubt if you would be handing over your house keys to him.

 

[luvsJack]

There was an interview on CNN the other day with a man that was an Islamic Extremist but has conformed (if that is the right word?) and apparently lives in England. It was interesting to hear his take on why so many join. For himself, he had experienced a lot in his life that made him want to hear what these folks had to say. Racism, anti-Muslim bullying, etc. Those things got him to listen and then it was easy to get swept up in it. He seems completely sane and very intelligent. I don't remember his name, wish I had a link but wasn't able to find it.

 

[asta]

CNN later today will air an interview with the brother of one of the terrorists and the one on the run. Should be interesting. Among the things I picked up in the tease was that these guys still lived at home with parents. Of course they had no idea of anything their precious sons were up to (sarcasm). They are also not sure that the son on the run had anything to do with the attacks (even more sarcasm). Brother thinks it would be a good idea for him to call police and tell them he is innocent.

 

[gwynne]

There was an interview on CNN the other day with a man that was an Islamic Extremist but has conformed (if that is the right word?) and apparently lives in England. It was interesting to hear his take on why so many join. For himself, he had experienced a lot in his life that made him want to hear what these folks had to say. Racism, anti-Muslim bullying, etc. Those things got him to listen and then it was easy to get swept up in it. He seems completely sane and very intelligent. I don't remember his name, wish I had a link but wasn't able to find it.

I'm sure there are lots of similarities with young adults that live to join gangs. It makes them feel powerful, tough, in charge. They get a kick out of being criminals. They have a group of ready made best friends. With Islamic Extremists we can probably add in a sprinkle of highly controversial religiosity to the mix.
Ugly combination of stuff, overall.

 

[nanienamou]

I don't think you hate saying it. I think you rather enjoy saying it. And you seem to believe everything is about skin color.

When you say that you need to help Americans who are not fighting for their lives before you help refugees, you are basically saying that American lives are worth more than any other lives. Simple as that.

 

[ChloroformSdxn]

Boston marathon bombers were refugees.

No. They were the children of asylum-seekers, who came info the country on a tourist visa. They were never recognized as refugees.

Even so, within the 10 year period they came in, almost 2 million people also came in, either as refugees or asylum-seekers. These were two. 2 out of almost 2 million, who didnt gi throiyh refugee screening and who came over as children. The deceased bomber married an American who converted.

 

[Pea-n-Me]

When you say that you need to help Americans who are not fighting for their lives before you help refugees, you are basically saying that American lives are worth more than any other lives. Simple as that.

What??

More like, "Charity begins at home".

 

[asta]

When you say that you need to help Americans who are not fighting for their lives before you help refugees, you are basically saying that American lives are worth more than any other lives. Simple as that.

I posted this in the other thread about the Canadian response but it is worth bringing up here. Why are we judged as heartless while Saudi Arabia is given a pass? They are closer to the problem, share a way of life much closer to refugees and have plenty of ready made space. Much better conditions than in refugee camps. And moving these people into western civilization where they don't assimilate is being cited everywhere as a reason why their young men grow up and want to kill us.


Saudi Arabia and the Gulf States have taken ZERO refugees! Yes, they’re the logical and closest choice for the Syrian refugees but they’re letting Germany and other countries take in thousands upon thousands of the Muslim refugees. This is so wrong on so many levels but it is important to ask why…

The wealthiest nation of the Arab states near Syria will not admit a single refugee. But what does the situation look like in terms of their capacity?

For weeks now, Europe has been in a state of emergency. This has been the biggest mass of people wandering through Europe Since World War Two. Many western governments are under pressure. There are even allegations made that they don’t do enough.

But at the same time, there are huge capacities available on the Arabian continent.

There is, for example, Mina, a valley east of the city of Mecca. The area is reserved for pilgrims on the hajj and is capable of housing three million people in huge, climatized tent camps.

This tent city was built in the 1990s on twenty square kilometers.

The tents are eight by eight meters; there are kitchens and baths. Since 1997 the tents have even been fireproof.

As the website ‘Amusing Planet’ reports, “Mina is pretty much empty for the rest of the year.” These tents are occupied only five days out of the year, during the Hajj.

 

[CPanther95]

Of course not. But, statistics would tell me that I have a MUCH greater chance of being killed by a homegrown American terrorist than a refugee or foreign terrorist. I'm just saying that people are losing sight of what the ACTUAL risk is in favor of hysteria over a perceived risk.

So far this year, more than 11,000 people have died from gun violence in this country, 616 of them small children. (http://www.gunviolencearchive.org). That's a lot. How many Americans have died from terrorist attacks this year? Way, way less. Even counting 9-11, the Boston Marathon bombing, and the Fort Hood shooting, we've lost many, many times that many lives to gun violence.

Now, should we worry about terrorism? Sure. But, let's keep the hysteria in check.

Personally, I believe we should help as many refugees as possible. Any that can be adequately screened I have no problem with. I don't consider being prudent and cautious as hysteria. If anything the hysteria comes when it is suggested that we must bring them in immediately and any suggestion that there may be a couple bad apples is racist.

But this constant duck & weave diverting any rational discussion of screening potential terrorists by suggesting that there are worse terrorists than those that could come posing as refugees makes no sense.
>"Ignore terrorists coming as refugees because if they hadn't come in, they could just be replaced by other terrorists"
>"Ignore all foreign terrorists because American terrorists are worse"
>"Ignore all terrorists because gun violence is worse"

Why stop there? Why not ignore all the hysteria about guns because you're far more likely to die in an automobile accident than by a random shooting?

Can't we try to stop any and all terrorists attempting to cross our border? Isn't that common sense? Do we really wait until there are so many here and their death toll is so significant that it becomes a worthy enough problem to address?

 

[SparklePixie]

When you say that you need to help Americans who are not fighting for their lives before you help refugees, you are basically saying that American lives are worth more than any other lives. Simple as that.

Don't put words in my mouth or tell me what I am saying. I believe in helping fellow citizens of MY country first. When everyone in MY country goes to sleep in a warm bed in a safe home with a full tummy, then we have enough left over to give to others. Until then, I am a firm believer in 'charity begins at home'.