Explosions and shootings in Paris

[ronandannette]

I think the mentality is the same.
The mentality that your "cause" is ordained by God, that you will be rewarded in the afterlife and that any means is justifiable and anyone who disagrees is evil to be eradicated. i have no doubt in my mind that the Women's clinic attackers would blow up every center in the US and kill every Dr who provided these services if they could.

Yes the scope is smaller, the people who commit the attacks are absolutely cut from the same evil cloth.

Careful verbiage, but I think you can still use the word abortion on here.

 

[mnrose]

One of the terrorists involved in the Paris attacks was a refugee. Or at least hid among the refugees, which is a distinction that really doesn't matter. The result is the same- a terrorist imported into the country.

One is SUSPECTED of being a refugee. I don't know of any reputable news source who has identified this as a fact.

 

[sunshinemelody]

I'm struggling to find the words to say this without causing offense, but perhaps consider some personal responsibility in addressing self admitted gaps in your knowledge of history rather than laying it at the feet of your fellow citizens. Public libraries all over the United States of America have an ample supply of books you can borrow for free to get you up to speed. Some of those books will no doubt give backstory to recent comments about France possibly being America's oldest friend and might give some different shades of understanding to the magnified expression of grief.

No, I know about America and France being old friends, but OK.

The answer to your question is obvious. White, anglo-saxon lives are more important than those other lives. I hate to say that. But, we all know it's true.

This is what I came here to say. But I'm going to leave this discussion to alleviate myself of the grief of having to read this any longer.

 

[WIcruizer]

One is SUSPECTED of being a refugee. I don't know of any reputable news source who has identified this as a fact.

Please read my comment again.

 

[Geoff_M]

What I don't understand is how normal people (not psychopaths, etc) are attracted to organizations like ISIS. Then again, I didn't understand who people joined groups like Jim Jones' People's Temple and the Branch Davidians. I think there must be a cult-like aspect to all of them.

Yes, if you compare the history of other Millenarian groups (including the ones you mention) and ISIS you'll see they are two sides of the same coin. This one just happens to be the largest of our times and the first one of the global internet age. It may be a crude analogy, but a declared "caliphate" is going to act like a homing beacon for those that adhere to a specific interpretation of Islam. As long as ISIS acts like a "caliphate", says it's one, talks like one, smells like one, tastes like one, etc.... it's going to draw members from other places. In their minds, it's their theological "duty" to join it, and to not heed the call and pledge your allegiance to the group is a ticket to apostasy. Note that many of the ISIS fighters do not come from "war torn" countries. The main role that Syria and Iraq played is that they created the power vacuum that allowed ISIS to bloom and claim the title of "caliphate".
Wood, in the Atlantic piece, was amazed that when he interviewed ISIS supporters in various places, they all clearly had done their theological "homework". Every one of them had a quick answer for any question he posed that questioned the theological basis for ISIS's actions, and he had to admit that often times their answers seemed quite "reasoned". Never once did any of them stumble over Wood's questioning.

 

[asta]

I still don't understand how these terrorists pass through life without people noticing. Something is very wrong with their lifestyles and how they exist in western society. Unless I am missing something these guys never have jobs, no normal way of paying for their travel, where they live, cars they rent, food they eat. Obviously they are funded by other terrorists. But you would think their families or others would automatically know something is very wrong. People thriving in our midst with no rational means of support should be a red flag.

 

[BadgerGirl84]

They are all terrorist attacks, the only difference is the "religion" behind the attacks.

I know I'm late to respond (busy with my daughter and work last night...and the conversation has probably gone off in a totally different direction), but to put a handful of US-based Christian terrorist attacks (Army of God group, possibly the Olympic bomber) in the same league as this world-wide militant islamic extremist type of terrorism is just absurd. I'm not denying that there hasn't been a handful of US-based terrorists who are supposedly "Christian," but you certainly don't see world-wide panic about closing the extreme Christian terrorists. You just don't. Although I think it makes people with a certain world-view feel better about the state of things to lump them all together.

 

[mnrose]

Please read my comment again.

Ok. Fair enough.

But 5/6 of the attackers currently identified were NOT refugees. They were EU nationals (i.e., homegrown terrorists). Homegrown. We could have ZERO refugees and the attack would still have been quite deadly, no?

 

[mnrose]

I still don't understand how these terrorists pass through life without people noticing. Something is very wrong with their lifestyles and how they exist in western society. Unless I am missing something these guys never have jobs, no normal way of paying for their travel, where they live, cars they rent, food they eat. Obviously they are funded by other terrorists. But you would think their families or others would automatically know something is very wrong. People thriving in our midst with no rational means of support should be a red flag.

The same way the gunmen who shoot up schools in this country pass through life. Tell me honestly, how many of YOUR neighbors do you know well enough to know where their money comes from? Really comes from?

Landlords do a cursory review of prospective tenants. The big thing to a landlord is "is the rent being paid?" If it is, I venture to say most landlords DO NOT know where the money comes from.

I see my neighbors. I wave at them. I know their names. I know what they "claim" to do for a living, but honestly, I have no idea whether they are telling the truth. LOL. I live miles away from any of my family members. I could be engaging in lots of nefarious activities without anyone the wiser.

I think we live in a world where it is "live and let live" and most of us don't know much about the people we see moving through our lives. And, if truth be told, we LIKE it like that. You sure wouldn't want one of your neighbors prying into the details behind your life, would you?

 

[taitai]

I still don't understand how these terrorists pass through life without people noticing. Something is very wrong with their lifestyles and how they exist in western society. Unless I am missing something these guys never have jobs, no normal way of paying for their travel, where they live, cars they rent, food they eat. Obviously they are funded by other terrorists. But you would think their families or others would automatically know something is very wrong. People thriving in our midst with no rational means of support should be a red flag.

They had jobs. Two of them (brothers) owned a cafe and a grocer. They were pillars of their community, so to speak. Some were young and in school. The whole point of these little cells is to stay under the radar until the last moment. Several had become radicalized in recent months and were reported to the authorities.

 

[wilkeliza]

I still don't understand how these terrorists pass through life without people noticing. Something is very wrong with their lifestyles and how they exist in western society. Unless I am missing something these guys never have jobs, no normal way of paying for their travel, where they live, cars they rent, food they eat. Obviously they are funded by other terrorists. But you would think their families or others would automatically know something is very wrong. People thriving in our midst with no rational means of support should be a red flag.

Some of them do have jobs others are teenagers who save their allowance or steal to get what they need. Many are from more affluent families where slipping a few hundred out of a parents safe is no big deal. In Europe it is much easier because they just walk or hitch a ride with other supporters who then pay for their plane tickets.

 

[TLSnell1981]

One is SUSPECTED of being a refugee. I don't know of any reputable news source who has identified this as a fact.

It doesn't really matter. At least one entered through Greece on a Syrian passport.

 

[bcla]

No, I know about America and France being old friends, but OK.

The French were a huge air in the American Revolution, although part of it was to stick it to the British. They also gave a certain statue currently in New York Harbor.

 

[CPanther95]

Ok. Fair enough.

But 5/6 of the attackers currently identified were NOT refugees. They were EU nationals (i.e., homegrown terrorists). Homegrown. We could have ZERO refugees and the attack would still have been quite deadly, no?

Are you really suggesting that it's ok to let terrorists come in as refugees because they are no more deadly than terrorists that are already here or that come in via a different path?

 

[asta]

The same way the gunmen who shoot up schools in this country pass through life. Tell me honestly, how many of YOUR neighbors do you know well enough to know where their money comes from? Really comes from?

Landlords do a cursory review of prospective tenants. The big thing to a landlord is "is the rent being paid?" If it is, I venture to say most landlords DO NOT know where the money comes from.

I see my neighbors. I wave at them. I know their names. I know what they "claim" to do for a living, but honestly, I have no idea whether they are telling the truth. LOL. I live miles away from any of my family members. I could be engaging in lots of nefarious activities without anyone the wiser.

I think we live in a world where it is "live and let live" and most of us don't know much about the people we see moving through our lives. And, if truth be told, we LIKE it like that. You sure wouldn't want one of your neighbors prying into the details behind your life, would you?

I think this anonymous lifestyle you describe is a break down in society that allows these people to exist. This is not the way many Americans live. I know my neighbors and suspicions would be raised if the illogical lifestyle of these terrorists was taking place next door. I have no problems with what my neighbors know. My next door neighbor has a key to my home, no secrets. Maybe we are just dull people but I have nothing to hide.

 

[pat fan]

For some reason, I found my way to this thread, and I'm just feeling absolutely heartbroken, especially the comments about Syrians refugees. For the record, not one of the terrorist attacks in the past 35 years has been by a refugee. There are more than 6 million Muslims living in France. If 1% of them were jihadists, you would have 60,000 terrorists. Not for lack of trying - why do you think Daesh would planted a forged Syrian passport next to a bomber?

My son is a direct descendant of Holocaust survivors, specifically Auschwitz. His great grandfather lived every day until his death last year with the numbers tattooed on his arm.

In Canada, we had an atrocious record for providing refuge to Jews during the Holocaust. There was one boat, the St Louis, which came over with more than 900 people. They came to Havana, with the intent of settling in the US. They could see the lights of Miami. The USA, at the last minute, decided not to let them in. Many Jewish organizations tried to get them into South American countries, all of whom said no. They tried to get into Canada, and we said, with regards to Jews, "None is too many." They turned around, went back to Europe. More than a quarter of them, including women and children, were killed in concentration camps and burned in the ovens.

If anyone is going to talk about Hitler in this thread, you can't talk about how we failed to strike against him without talking about how we also failed to give his victims safe harbour.

Boston marathon bombers were refugees.

 

[rickybobby]

What happened in Paris in horrendous, but I've seen among some of my friends what I consider to be valid questions: Why didn't Facebook allow me to add a Beirut flag over my profile picture when 41 people died the day before? Or a Kenyan flag when 147 people were killed in a terrorist attack in April?

I'm not saying we shouldn't "stand with Paris". This isn't an either/or argument. I'm just saying why didn't Kenya's attack in April get 4 days of constant media attention?

The attack on Paris was an attack against a NATO country. According to the NATO charter, an attack against one is considered an attack on all. War has been declared on ISIS by France, it should be that for all of NATO unless we are once again just a "paper" tiger.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

The attack on Paris was an attack against a NATO country. According to the NATO charter, an attack against one is considered an attack on all. War has been declared on ISIS by France, it should be that for all of NATO unless we are once again just a "paper" tiger.

I didn't know Facebook was part of the NATO charter.

 

[mnrose]

Are you really suggesting that it's ok to let terrorists come in as refugees because they are no more deadly than terrorists that are already here or that come in via a different path?

Of course not. But, statistics would tell me that I have a MUCH greater chance of being killed by a homegrown American terrorist than a refugee or foreign terrorist. I'm just saying that people are losing sight of what the ACTUAL risk is in favor of hysteria over a perceived risk.

So far this year, more than 11,000 people have died from gun violence in this country, 616 of them small children. (http://www.gunviolencearchive.org). That's a lot. How many Americans have died from terrorist attacks this year? Way, way less. Even counting 9-11, the Boston Marathon bombing, and the Fort Hood shooting, we've lost many, many times that many lives to gun violence.

Now, should we worry about terrorism? Sure. But, let's keep the hysteria in check.

 

[TLSnell1981]

I still don't understand how these terrorists pass through life without people noticing. Something is very wrong with their lifestyles and how they exist in western society.

Lack of community interaction. Some do not communicate with or acknowledge anyone in the neighborhood. They have their own lifestyles and customs...not concerned with being cordial to their neighbors.