Explains a lot of US citizens' financial woes

That's not the case any more in most states - each month, the cash is loaded onto electronic benefit transfer (EBT) cards -people can then use the cards either as debit cards at a point of sale or as direct withdrawal cards at any ATM for whatever they want to buy.

Not true in PA. While the funds are loaded onto an EBT card, the food stamp portion can only be used at a POS for food. If you try to withdraw the FS funds at an ATM, your request will be declined. You can however, withdraw any cash assistance amount at an ATM.
 
Luvs jack- sorry I can't quote from my phone but while it may not be as easy to see eBay cards for cash what I see is people take another person buy their groceries and then the "friend" gives cash in exchange and yes I have heard coworkers talk about doing this. Also 400 for 4? Go to Indiana food stamp application and it is 800.09 for a family of 5. Free lunch at my child's school requires food stamp assistance as a qualification so yes food stamps at home and free breakfast and lunch at school. Guess what food stamps qualify you for a free cell phone plan, heat assistance, rent assistance, free schooling, free free free. 400.00 a month is what my family of 5 spends on groceries but it is NOT what state aid gives. Hand up is not the same as a hand out and with all the perks of assistance there is little incentive but pride for people to get off. Come live in a Chicago suburb and see all the scammers scam. Read some of the fine print "free/reduced for those receiving assistance"
 
Oh yeah and our town sets up free lunches at locations all over town so the kids won't starve during the summer. To be fair that is open to all children under 18 regardless of family income.
 
Luvs jack- sorry I can't quote from my phone but while it may not be as easy to see eBay cards for cash what I see is people take another person buy their groceries and then the "friend" gives cash in exchange and yes I have heard coworkers talk about doing this. Also 400 for 4? Go to Indiana food stamp application and it is 800.09 for a family of 5. Free lunch at my child's school requires food stamp assistance as a qualification so yes food stamps at home and free breakfast and lunch at school. Guess what food stamps qualify you for a free cell phone plan, heat assistance, rent assistance, free schooling, free free free. 400.00 a month is what my family of 5 spends on groceries but it is NOT what state aid gives. Hand up is not the same as a hand out and with all the perks of assistance there is little incentive but pride for people to get off. Come live in a Chicago suburb and see all the scammers scam. Read some of the fine print "free/reduced for those receiving assistance"

The only one of those things that you list that a food stamp recipient would automatically qualify for here in MS is the free lunch/breakfast program.

Other assistance requires less income than the food stamp program. A person would have to have no job at all to qualify (which sadly is why so many single moms find it better for them to just quit work)

Dil was able to do it on the $400 but it wasn't easy.

I am sure we have scammers here too but I remember when food stamps were actual pieces of paper. My dad owned a small grocery store and people would come in wanting to sell him the stamps or get him to let them buy beer. He threw them out of the store. He said that for every one that tried that though, there were 10 more that actually were in need and needed every stamp they got to buy food for their family.

We don't have the free lunch set up that you have either. There are a couple of schools that open their cafeteria in the summer for the free lunch program to continue, but there are huge numbers of kids that cannot get to those schools without transportation so it doesn't serve a wide need.
 

Luvs jack- sorry I can't quote from my phone but while it may not be as easy to see eBay cards for cash what I see is people take another person buy their groceries and then the "friend" gives cash in exchange and yes I have heard coworkers talk about doing this. Also 400 for 4? Go to Indiana food stamp application and it is 800.09 for a family of 5. Free lunch at my child's school requires food stamp assistance as a qualification so yes food stamps at home and free breakfast and lunch at school. Guess what food stamps qualify you for a free cell phone plan, heat assistance, rent assistance, free schooling, free free free. 400.00 a month is what my family of 5 spends on groceries but it is NOT what state aid gives. Hand up is not the same as a hand out and with all the perks of assistance there is little incentive but pride for people to get off. Come live in a Chicago suburb and see all the scammers scam. Read some of the fine print "free/reduced for those receiving assistance"

Food stamps are an automatic qualifier for free/reduced lunch, but not the only way to qualify. The income limits for the lunch program are much higher than food stamp cutoffs, but families who receive food stamps have a different application process since their income and assets have already been verified.

I don't know much about the free cell phone plan but my impression was that it is the same - if you get food stamps you automatically qualify, as you've already proven the low income element, but I believe there is an application process for those who don't receive other aid. And automatic qualification doesn't mean every food stamp applicant gets it - many don't apply even though they qualify.

Heat assistance, rent assistance, car repair assistance in my state all have lower income limits than food stamps and very limited amounts both per-recipient and in total. Section 8 housing is something different and all I know about that program is that the waiting list for approved rentals is so long that it is only useful to those in chronic poverty but offers practically nothing to the laid off or the working poor.

And $400 for groceries for a family of 5? There is no way I could feed my family anything resembling a healthy diet on that little, even if I excluded breakfast and lunch on school days. I grow a big garden, cook from scratch, shop sales, buy locally and in bulk whenever possible, and over the course of the year I average around $700/mo. Your kids are still very young, you'll see as they get older how the grocery bill shoots up. With a teen, a tween, and a preschooler, plus DH who works a physical job and comes home starving, $400/mo would be a ramen-and-hot-dogs menu if I wanted to keep everyone full.
 
As a teenager in the 90s, when the economy was good, I was slightly appalled at how people tried to use consumerism as a basis for a superiority complex. Now that the economy is not so good, it seems people are using frugality as a basis for a superiority complex. Not just here, but on other boards and real life conversations, I hear people repeatedly take a statistic and use it make judgments/statements about people's priorities, with a certain smugness. A sense that they feel intellectually and morally superior because they perceive themselves to have better values and financial sense.

This actual statistic tells us nothing about people's priorities. If the survey question had been whether people had opted to not pay a utility bill, or forego groceries in order to pay for a Smartphone, that would tell us something about priorities. As others have pointed out, there are several circumstances where it would be reasonable for a cell phone bill to be higher than a grocery bill--teenagers and young adults who have to pay their own cell phone but not their own groceries, people who just have a ton of money and can meet all of their grocery needs, and still have enough left over to easily afford the Cadillace cell phones for themselves and their four teen/adult children. I know families whose cell phone bill basically replaces land line, cell phone, and Internet, because they use smart phones in place of computers with Internet.

We are pretty frugal. We have a high income and do without things that I see people with much lower income do. I question it sometimes, in the sense of wondering if there are secrets we do not know about making your money go further. There is no doubt in my mind that some people have crappy spending habits. But I think reading this statistic in the way people here have is a stretch.
 
As a teenager in the 90s, when the economy was good, I was slightly appalled at how people tried to use consumerism as a basis for a superiority complex. Now that the economy is not so good, it seems people are using frugality as a basis for a superiority complex. Not just here, but on other boards and real life conversations, I hear people repeatedly take a statistic and use it make judgments/statements about people's priorities, with a certain smugness. A sense that they feel intellectually and morally superior because they perceive themselves to have better values and financial sense.

This actual statistic tells us nothing about people's priorities. If the survey question had been whether people had opted to not pay a utility bill, or forego groceries in order to pay for a Smartphone, that would tell us something about priorities. As others have pointed out, there are several circumstances where it would be reasonable for a cell phone bill to be higher than a grocery bill--teenagers and young adults who have to pay their own cell phone but not their own groceries, people who just have a ton of money and can meet all of their grocery needs, and still have enough left over to easily afford the Cadillace cell phones for themselves and their four teen/adult children. I know families whose cell phone bill basically replaces land line, cell phone, and Internet, because they use smart phones in place of computers with Internet.

We are pretty frugal. We have a high income and do without things that I see people with much lower income do. I question it sometimes, in the sense of wondering if there are secrets we do not know about making your money go further. There is no doubt in my mind that some people have crappy spending habits. But I think reading this statistic in the way people here have is a stretch.

Well said! Perfect response.

I only read the OP's comments and then skipped to the end to post so forgive me if I repeat...

OP, what's your point? So some people spend a lot on cell phones. That fact alone doesn't indicate some type of economic crisis explanation.

Our cell phone bill for 3 exceeds our electric bill but we're not sitting in the dark. Our cell phone bill is more than our Internet/cable package but I'm not sure what you think that means. Our grocery bill for a week is about equal to a month of cell phones. I can think of instances where more would be spent on a cell phone. My DS27 possibly spends more on his phone than groceries but as a single guy he doesn't cook. His kitchen is not very well stocked.

Not sure why you think this explains anyone's financial woes. To me it possibly makes the point that there is lots of competition and deals to be found in some areas while cell phone service has fewer good deals. My state is a "power to choose" state so electricity is cheap and there are now so many ways to watch TV that cable rates are pretty low around here.
 
As a teenager in the 90s, when the economy was good, I was slightly appalled at how people tried to use consumerism as a basis for a superiority complex. Now that the economy is not so good, it seems people are using frugality as a basis for a superiority complex. Not just here, but on other boards and real life conversations, I hear people repeatedly take a statistic and use it make judgments/statements about people's priorities, with a certain smugness. A sense that they feel intellectually and morally superior because they perceive themselves to have better values and financial sense.

This actual statistic tells us nothing about people's priorities. If the survey question had been whether people had opted to not pay a utility bill, or forego groceries in order to pay for a Smartphone, that would tell us something about priorities. As others have pointed out, there are several circumstances where it would be reasonable for a cell phone bill to be higher than a grocery bill--teenagers and young adults who have to pay their own cell phone but not their own groceries, people who just have a ton of money and can meet all of their grocery needs, and still have enough left over to easily afford the Cadillace cell phones for themselves and their four teen/adult children. I know families whose cell phone bill basically replaces land line, cell phone, and Internet, because they use smart phones in place of computers with Internet.

We are pretty frugal. We have a high income and do without things that I see people with much lower income do. I question it sometimes, in the sense of wondering if there are secrets we do not know about making your money go further. There is no doubt in my mind that some people have crappy spending habits. But I think reading this statistic in the way people here have is a stretch.

Irony!!!

Many of us did not buy into the "consumerism as a basis for a superiority complex" and lived our life frugally. We still live our life the same way and now our way is helping us to weather the current economic situation.
 
While it speaks to messed up priorities more than anything else, I find it amusing that I work in a district of poverty and many kids on free lunch have iphones. It is always amusing to me what people choose as their priorities.
BTW my cellular bill for 5 lines (DH, me, DD, DS and Mom) and my cable/internet/house phone are half of my monthly food bill and equal to gas, electric and water bills.
 
I watched true life "i live in poverty" or something like that yesterday and I was shocked that this people were barely making it but the had cable bills.
Oh, I'm not surprised. I've frequently discussed my lazy, no-good cousin in discussions like this. He'd been out of work for a couple months, and when he found another job and got a paycheck, wht do you suspect he did first? Nope, didn't catch up the electricity bill, didn't fill the cupboards with food for his kids. Nope, his first move was to pay what he owed to the cable company so they'd cut his service back on.

Here are more surprising facts about Americans defined as “poor” by the Census Bureau, all taken from various government reports and included in my new paper from The Heritage Foundation called “Understanding Poverty in the United States”: . . . .

● Eighty percent of poor households have air conditioning. By contrast, in 1970, only 36 percent of the entire U.S. population enjoyed air conditioning. Yes, I grew up without air conditioning -- here in the South. I grew up without air conditioning. Yes, it was uncomfortable sometimes, but we learned to adapt: To plan to be indoors reading at mid-day, to cook plenty for dinner so we'd have leftovers without heating the kitchen at lunch, etc. I don't want to do without air conditioning now, but I can afford to pay for it.

● Fully 92 percent of poor households have a microwave; two-thirds have at least one DVD player and 70 percent have a VCR. I'd say that means nothing. These small luxuries have been out a long time, and they're now available very cheaply. I even got a portable DVD player for free once for buying some Dockers' clothing.

● Nearly 75 percent have a car or truck; 31 percent have two or more cars or trucks. This doesn't address whether these vehicles are in safe running condition.

● Four out of five poor adults assert they were never hungry at any time in the prior year due to lack of money for food. In my teens and early 20s I was frequently hungry because I couldn't afford to eat /wouldn't accept free school lunches. The long-term effect was that it made me work harder so that I wouldn't stay in that situation all my life.

● Nearly two-thirds have cable or satellite television.

● Half have a personal computer; one in seven have two or more computers. On the first day of school, one of the things I ask about on my classroom information sheet is whether the student has access to a computer to use at home /internet access at home. It's a rare student who doesn't have some computer access -- though often it's shared with the whole family.

● More than half of poor families with children have a video game system such as Xbox or PlayStation. Again, these have been out a long time, and these kids have had plenty of Christmases and birthdays to accumulate these luxuries. Even poor families have occasional moments of financial success, and extended family often buys these things as gifts. Also, poor families are likely to sell these things for a huge loss when they're in need, giving others a chance to pick them up cheaply. Anyway, I don't think one "expensive item" is particularly indicative of the family's financial status -- not in the same way that being able to qualify for a mortgage or car loan is indicative.

● Just under half — 43 percent — have Internet access.

● A third have a widescreen plasma or LCD TV. If my kids can be believed, ALL their friends have TVs larger than our family-room TV in their own bedrooms.

● One in every four has a digital video recorder such as TiVo.

As noted, TV newscasts about poverty in America usually picture the poor as homeless or as a destitute family living in an overcrowded, rundown trailer. The actual facts are far different: This probably varies by area. Here in the South, where winters are moderate, trailers are common.

● At a single point in time, only one in 70 poor persons is homeless.

● The vast majority of the houses or apartments of the poor are in good repair; only 6 percent are over-crowded.

● The average poor American has more living space than the average non-poor individual living in Sweden, France, Germany or the United Kingdom. This speaks to cultural expectations and has little to do with the poor in America.

● Only 10 percent of the poor live in mobile homes or trailers; half live in detached single-family houses or townhouses, while 40 percent live in apartments. I really suspect it's higher in my immediate area.

● Forty-two percent of all poor households own their home; on average, it’s a three-bedroom house with one-and-a-half baths, a garage, and a porch or patio Again, it may vary by area, but I know quite a few people who live in houses built by /inherited from their parents /grandparents -- this probably isn't all that widespread, but it is common in the rural farming community where I grew up. In fact, I grew up in my mother's childhood home. My brother owns it now. Anyway, the point is that the house may've been handed down rather than being something that the family can actually afford on its own.
I'm amazed this thread only took 5 pages to devolve into "blame the Escalade driving Welfare Queens."
You can't deny that SOME of that blame is well deserved. Just how much is anyone's guess, but that stereotype /assumption didn't come from nowhere.
While it speaks to messed up priorities more than anything else, I find it amusing that I work in a district of poverty and many kids on free lunch have iphones. It is always amusing to me what people choose as their priorities.
Yeah, I used to notice that, but I've purposefully stopped paying attention. I can't control it, and it just makes me feel bad.

Here's an oddity about teenagers and cell phones: I've seen kids flashing cell phones that have no service connected to them. Cell phones are the ultimate status symbol these days, and teens who don't have them will carry around someone else's old phone (or their own phone that's been disconnected for lack of payment) just for the look.
 
Irony!!!

Many of us did not buy into the "consumerism as a basis for a superiority complex" and lived our life frugally. We still live our life the same way and now our way is helping us to weather the current economic situation.

I am clarifying where I personally fall to proactively address the people who assume my viewpoint is defensiveness. We have a high income and have always been frugal, because I was raised to be that way for purely selfish reasons--to protect my future and alleviate stress. I do not see it as a moral issue or a better way to be, just the lifestyle I am personally comfortable with. I admit to curiosity about how others manage to afford a more luxurious lifestyle. But I cannot agree with the idea of going a few steps beyond that curiosity to make a value judgment on the individual, and attribute it to lower morals, values, priorities, financial sense, or intelligence.

Being frugal is a choice. Not a badge of honor, or something to feel superior about.
 
I think that those that have the choice to live frugal have a hard time seeing it from the side of those that have very little.

Yes, many of the things some buy is simply a status symbol; much like carrying the iphone that is disconnected.

For those that have so little, when they do get some money; they want the "nice" things that they think others have. They don't want to "look" as though they scrimp and save. They want that expensive pair of jeans or that iphone or that expensive purse or even that Escalade or those nails that everyone can see. Follow that Escalade home and you may find little more than a run-down 3 room house.

The priorities are wrong, I agree, but you have to live in that place to understand it.

Many can say "I grew up poor and it made me work harder to afford what I have". And that is great that it had that affect on you. It doesn't on everyone. Some just don't see a way out. Or they make the same choices their parents made and continue the circle. Doesn't mean they don't WANT out, just that they don't see a way out. There has to be that person that shows them how they can get out and so many do not have parents that can show them that way.

For so many that people assume are lying or tricking the system to get assistance because of the car they see them drive or the clothes they have on; don't realize that they do, in fact, meet the income requirements to get that assistance, they are just spending every dime they have to make those car payments or pay for those clothes or one whole paycheck just pays for that iphone.

Do I think its all ok? No. But, as long as they do meet those requirements and they CHOOSE to spend what little money they have left on that car note, what can be done about it?
 
I am so amazed at how much they charge for cell phone plans now. They think of some new charge you have to pay for and they increase the rates way more than inflation.

While cell phones may not be a necessity, it certainly gives me peace of mind when I am trying to locate my family.

I do not pay more for our cell phones per month than groceries, but the cell phone bill is ridiculously high - higher than our electricity bill was before we got solar and runs about the same as our internet/cable/landline bundle.
 
I am so amazed at how much they charge for cell phone plans now. They think of some new charge you have to pay for and they increase the rates way more than inflation.

While cell phones may not be a necessity, it certainly gives me peace of mind when I am trying to locate my family.

I do not pay more for our cell phones per month than groceries, but the cell phone bill is ridiculously high - higher than our electricity bill was before we got solar and runs about the same as our internet/cable/landline bundle.

Those new charges or changes in service plans can be so frustrating!

DH is required to have a cell phone for his job. He drives a truck so he is all over the country. The service provider we have has the best service in that no matter where he is (except for a couple of exceptions) he can get a call in or out. He has to have a nationwide plan. The only way to get unlimited nationwide coverage was to also get unlimited text, picture messaging, etc. The man has never sent a text in his life!! Not even sure he would know how! I have tried to send him one just for him to read, no go. But we still pay for it.

NOW, our provider has been purchased by another company. His plan was grandfathered in. If/when he gets a new phone, he will not be able to get that same plan, he will have to go to a plan that requires at least 50% of his calls come from his service area. There is no way to make sure that happens. Guess he will be duct taping that phone until the last minute he can use it! :rotfl:
 
Don't always blame consumer for their financial woes. Marketing strategists, psychiatrist, focus group, target audience, etc are all used to get you to spend more. All big companies are using psychological pricing and assorted methods to the point where the want and the need is the same thing to you.

Some people are ill-equipped to deal and understand this process. Companies are spending billions to understand our tought process and spending habit, be it Disney, Ford or MacDonald.
 
I'd be interested in a source for that study, please.

I, too would be interested in that study and its source. We can't believe EVERYTHING we read. Sure, some people put their priorities backwards and pay more for phones than necessities; but if I want to spend my money on a smart phone, which has streamlined a lot of things in my own life, then I will. My bills are paid, we work hard for our money, we save money, take care of our kids, serve our country, enjoy a yearly Disney vacation and we are nearly in the 30% tax bracket. I think we have earned (not deserved) the right to have whatever we like since we are not living OFF the government; but rather our own hard work and our own money.

Why is this even an issue and who really cares??
 
Colleen27 said:
Per household *with credit card debt*. That's a pretty important qualifier, since 28% of American households don't have any credit cards at all and only 40% report carrying an unpaid balance from month to month (according to the same source). But the shock value of the average number is greatly diminished if you put it in context and realize it applies only to about 1/3 of American households.

Dontcha just love the way "news" spins stats stuff to "everyone"
 
leahjade said:
That's not the case any more in most states - each month, the cash is loaded onto electronic benefit transfer (EBT) cards -people can then use the cards either as debit cards at a point of sale or as direct withdrawal cards at any ATM for whatever they want to buy.

And people here take the other person shopping and they give cash to the card holder.
 
Here's an oddity about teenagers and cell phones: I've seen kids flashing cell phones that have no service connected to them. Cell phones are the ultimate status symbol these days, and teens who don't have them will carry around someone else's old phone (or their own phone that's been disconnected for lack of payment) just for the look.

*shrug* My eight year old has two smart phones with no service connected to them. She doesn't take them to school, but does take them to random places she might be at loose ends (dinner, the train, any shopping she considers boring - which is most of it). It's a remarkably useful device, either with open wifi or just what you can store on it. It's a book, it's a game system, it's a paper and pencil, it's your address book, it's a slew of useful electronic tools. And it fits in a pocket and weighs less than six ounces. A fashion thing? Not so much.

As for the original post - We spend more on cell phones than we do on:
Utilities (electric, gas and water combined. They're about $50-$100/month, depending on the time of year)
Cable TV ($0)
car payment ($0)
home internet (around $50/month again)
home phone line ($0)

However, we still spend less on our cell phone bills annually than we:
donated last year to education initiatives in our community.
spend on after school activities.
spend on summer camp.
spend at the laundromat.
spend on transit/funding our bicycling habits.


People's expenses vary. What people choose to spend money on varies, and it's no more my business what they spend money on than it is anyone else's business to dictate what I spend my money on.
 
We spend more on cell phones than on electricity in the winter but way more on electricity in the summer than virtually anything else. The heat here sees to that. However we don't have a land line.

Our food purchases don't suffer because of this. I wouldn't allow it. I can see why some who have less would be tempted to go for the bigger and better at times though.
 





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