Experience with MS Phone or Chat for Reservations

[Girlstar30]

From everything that you know and everything that you've read, do you really think the CM was correct when they said that you cannot rent to strangers? I find that hard to believe.

Yes i do believe that DVC told them to tell us that renting to strangers is not allowed and that is a huge issue to me.

 

[VGCgroupie]

We've had well over 200+ pages of great debate on what is the correct answer, with some of the most knowledgeable people in the DVC world, and still no clarity as to what is the "correct answer." Pestering CM's with hypothetical, nuanced questions isn't ever going to be fruitful.

And I am not at all complacent; I have just learned through experience to manage my expectations. If you truly want a definitive answer, then go seek it from someone in DVC who can provide it, not some random frontline CM whose main role is to handle transactional activities.

This whole thread stemmed from someone being told they had to lie and say it was friends and family in order to change the lead guest name on a reservation. This is something new and something that doesn't fall within what I have read in the POS. I would not want to rent a reservation and then be denied a name change unless I lied. I am not thinking just about myself, I am thinking about the person who rents from an owner, they are people too and don't deserve to have their vacations in limbo because DVC cant establish a firm guideline for their employees to stick to.

Edit to add: the thread was actually started just to track various interactions, commentary wasnt the goal. I am also guilty of not keeping it in the other 200 pages threads

 

[Mouseforward]

I have just learned through experience to manage my expectations. If you truly want a definitive answer, then go seek it from someone in DVC who can provide it

MS is our designated contact for this information. We are required to go through them for answers. They are responsible to escalate if needed.

 

[Girlstar30]

You do know. It's all spelled out in the governing documents. Read them. Follow them. If you run afoul of DVC while doing so, THEN you have a problem to address.

Im sorry, but I do not just get myself into problems and then address them afterwards when all that can be avoided.

 

[BeachClub2014]

By asking questions we are letting it be known that we want answers and no im not going to stop asking until I get an answer and know the rules. Their main role is to help customers and answer our questions.

You have the rules, just follow them until it actually becomes a problem.

 

[Girlstar30]

You have the rules, just follow them until it actually becomes a problem.

That is not how I operate sorry I dont get into problems in life and then address them, quite the opposite.

 

[BeachClub2014]

MS is our designated contact for this information. We are required to go through them for answers. They are responsible to escalate if needed.

How's that working out for everyone? The primary purpose of this thread is to highlight responses from CMs and document often inconsistent or incorrect answers. How does that help?

What is the exact answer you hope to receive?

 

[MyDogTink]

Here's my contrarian view......

• I don't understand the need for folks to suddenly engage frontline cast members in a game of "DVC Rental Rules Gotcha". What's the point? It's not productive, wastes time, and causes delays to other members who actually need their assistance.
• Frontline CM's have been offering inconsistent and inaccurate information on all sorts of stuff since OKW was the only DVC resort. This is nothing new.
• Has anyone here had a rented reservation cancelled because it wasn't a "friend or family" as the lead guest?
• Has anyone here not been able to make a lead guest change?
• Other than the addition of a checkbox when making or modifying a reservation, has anything else actually changed?
• If someone, in this case a DVC frontline CM, gives an inaccurate answer, it doesn't mean that they are lying or intentionally misleading. Perhaps we should show a little grace and allow that maybe they just made a mistake.
• If you believe that DVC has violated one of the various Florida laws often bandied about here in these threads, then hire a lawyer and pursue your redress.

All fair points. I am not looking to catch a CM in a 'gotcha' game. And I don't appreciate when clients forum shop in my line of business. So, I do have sympathy with the CMs at MS. My issue is that if this is a rule that is being changed or finally implemented, then DVC management should publish something.

I think it is early to know if any reservations in the rental process will be declined. I have one out there for Christmas week and this is making me nervous. This is the first time in many years that I have rented out points.

Thinking ahead to future DVC trips and if I should add points is dependent on where this goes.

 

[Girlstar30]

All fair points. I am not looking to catch a CM in a 'gotcha' game. And I don't appreciate when clients forum shop in my line of business. So, I do have sympathy with the CMs at MS. My issue is that if this is a rule that is being changed or finally implemented, then DVC management should publish something.

I think it is early to know if any reservations in the rental process will be declined. I have one out there for Christmas week and this is making me nervous. This is the first time in many years that I have rented out points.

Thinking ahead to future DVC trips and if I should add points is dependent on where this goes.

Yep many members have these exact concerns and im with you on adding points.

 

[Sandisw]

He's been smarter. He carefully crafted his answer to give the impression that renting to strangers is not allowed without actually saying it.
Which is even worst. Because no way he came out with that on the fly. It's a script they've been given by higher ups, to actively misdirect and mislead members.

That is the problem I am having with all of this now, especially given everything I myself am getting from DVC and them stating that the official policy is the 2011 one.

They are purposefully misleading owners into thinking that there has been a rule/policy change and that renting to anyone who is not a family or friend is no longer allowed, but yet, have not actually changed anything in the rules, including the updated T & C to say that.

If DVC has decided that they can legally limit renting to only family and friends, then the written policies and rules should have stated that....they did not.

Hopefully, DVC is seeing all of this, getting emails from frustrated owners, and will at least send something to owners about it....

Let's see how they answer my latest email that came off, to be honest, a little less friendly than the previous ones...

 

[Mouseforward]

How's that working out for everyone? The primary purpose of this thread is to highlight responses from CMs and document often inconsistent or incorrect answers. How does that help?

What is the exact answer you hope to receive?

It does help -
1. It raises awareness for everybody in the forum that there’s inconsistency going on with rentals and what MS is telling us.
2. DVC employees read these forums so it’s probably helping to escalate the issue.
3. This provides a database to go to the leadership and point out the messaging is incorrect.

You may have your way of sitting back and waiting for something to become a problem. A lot of of us want to address issues before they become problems.

 

[Girlstar30]

That is the problem I am having with all of this now, especially given everything I myself am getting from DVC and them stating that the official policy is the 2011 one.

They are purposefully misleading owners into thinking that there has been a rule/policy change and that renting to anyone who is not a family or friend is no longer allowed, but yet, have not actually changed anything in the rules, including the updated T & C to say that.

If DVC has decided that they can legally limit renting to only family and friends, then the written policies and rules should have stated that....they did not.

Hopefully, DVC is seeing all of this, getting emails from frustrated owners, and will at least send something to owners about it....

Let's see how they answer my latest email that came off, to be honest, a little less friendly than the previous ones...

I think thats what we need though because not being direct gets us vague answers.

 

[BeachClub2014]

That is not how I operate sorry I dont get into problems in life and then address them, quite the opposite.

And you think that if you follow the terms and conditions in the POS, you'll have a problem?

What is the exact question that you want answered that isn't already answered in the governing documents?

My whole point is that the "DVC is cracking down on rentals" mantra that has taken hold seems to be lacking a lot of substance. There's a lot of wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth, and lots of great debate, but so far as I can tell, it's still pretty much status quo.

 

[BeachClub2014]

It does help -
1. It raises awareness for everybody in the forum that there’s inconsistency going on with rentals and what MS is telling us.
2. DVC employees read these forums so it’s probably helping to escalate the issue.
3. This provides a database to go to the leadership and point out the messaging is incorrect.

You may have your way of sitting back and waiting for something to become a problem. A lot of of us want to address issues before they become problems.

Is there an inconsistency with rentals? I haven't seen that. I certainly acknowledge inconsistent responses from MS, which has been a problem since the dawn of DVC. Good luck with fixing it, I wish you well.

It's not that I am sitting back and waiting for something to become a problem. I will continue to use my DVC membership in the same way that I have for the last 20+ years, until I encounter a problem. I haven't yet, and don't anticipate that I will.

 

[VGCgroupie]

And you think that if you follow the terms and conditions in the POS, you'll have a problem?

What is the exact question that you want answered that isn't already answered in the governing documents?

My whole point is that the "DVC is cracking down on rentals" mantra that has taken hold seems to be lacking a lot of substance. There's a lot of wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth, and lots of great debate, but so far as I can tell, it's still pretty much status quo.

The problem is you are in the minority not the majority and a majority of members go by what is being told to them by MS not by a legal document full of legalese that not all people understand. Members should not have to an unease about their membership and the parameters of which they can use it. It hurts the membership as a whole to have a feeling of distrust. I also believe commercial renting hurts the membership as a whole. I don't think you have to hurt the membership in one way to stop hurting it in the other way .

 

[Girlstar30]

And you think that if you follow the terms and conditions in the POS, you'll have a problem?

What is the exact question that you want answered that isn't already answered in the governing documents?

My whole point is that the "DVC is cracking down on rentals" mantra that has taken hold seems to be lacking a lot of substance. There's a lot of wringing of hands, gnashing of teeth, and lots of great debate, but so far as I can tell, it's still pretty much status quo.

Look, if you are comfortable with attesting to the fact that you are renting for personal use when you're not doing that according to the person asking the question then that is fine. I am not. Its a flat out lie when they're telling you personal use is for friends and family only. The POS says otherwise. This is a problem. If you cant see this I don't know what else to tell you.

Yes I think it is very possible to have problems in life when you lie.

If you are comfortable buying more points when you can possibly be flagged as a commerical renter and you're not worried about the future if you need to rent then thats fine, be comfortable with that, I am not.

I was more comfortable when it was vague and not by much. Now im not at all. And I will continue to ask questions until I know what the rules of my membership are according to Members Services, who is asking for a personal attestation which I take seriously, and the POS. Feel free to do otherwise.

 

[BeachClub2014]

The problem is you are in the minority not the majority and a majority of members go by what is being told to them by MS not by a legal document full of legalese that not all people understand. Members should not have to an unease about their membership and the parameters of which they can use it. It hurts the membership as a whole to have a feeling of distrust. I also believe commercial renting hurts the membership as a whole. I don't think you have to hurt the membership in one way to stop hurting it in the other way .

Again, what is it EXACTLY you hope to learn from the frontline CM relative to renting that you don't already know? That's not a pedantic question. I really don't understand what it is you hope to learn from them.

I am willing to bet that those of us here on the DIS are ALL in the minority relative to the entire ownership pool. I will further bet you that the majority of DVC owners have no interest in this whole rental discussion and use their points year in and year out, blissfully unaware of any potential issues.

 

[Sandisw]

Is there an inconsistency with rentals? I haven't seen that. I certainly acknowledge inconsistent responses from MS, which has been a problem since the dawn of DVC. Good luck with fixing it, I wish you well.

It's not that I am sitting back and waiting for something to become a problem. I will continue to use my DVC membership in the same way that I have for the last 20+ years, until I encounter a problem. I haven't yet, and don't anticipate that I will.

First, I agree its not the frontline CM's fault for having to answer the way they are because they are being told what to say and given a script...the MS supervisor confirmed this.

But, the messaging from those CM's should be consistent with the actual rules and not stated in such a way that owners who are not well versed in things walk away drawing a conclusion about who one can rent to that is not accurate based on those official rules.

The more people contact MS to seek clarification, and report it DVC via email, or post on forums like this, the more likely it is that we can ensure DVC is doing things the way they should.

Owners who are in a situation to need/want to rent their points should not have to guess whether or not they are risking a cancelation when the messaging being given by MS does not seem to match the written rules.

This thread at least provides owners with a variety of answers so that they can make decisions on what they are doing...

 

[VGCgroupie]

Again, what is it EXACTLY you hope to learn from the frontline CM relative to renting that you don't already know? That's not a pedantic question. I really don't understand what it is you hope to learn from them.

I am willing to bet that those of us here on the DIS are ALL in the minority relative to the entire ownership pool. I will further bet you that the majority of DVC owners have no interest in this whole rental discussion and use their points year in and year out, blissfully unaware of any potential issues.

The DIS isnt the only place where people talk DVC. I could show you 10 other places with hundreds of pages of comments regarding this. There's quite literally multiple news publications about it.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/trav...-club-changes-commercial-renters/84372282007/

 

[BeachClub2014]

Look, if you are comfortable with attesting to the fact that you are renting for personal use when you're not doing that according to the person asking the question then that is fine. I am not. Its a flat out lie when they're telling you personal use is for friends and family only. The POS says otherwise. This is a problem. If you cant see this I don't know what else to tell you.

Yes I think it is very possible to have problems in life when you lie.

If you are comfortable buying more points when you can possibly be flagged as a commerical renter and you're not worried about the future if you need to rent then thats fine, be comfortable with that, I am not.

I was more comfortable when it was vague. Now im not at all. And I will continue to ask questions until I know what the rules of my membership are according to Members Services, who is asking for a personal attestation which I take seriously, and the POS. Feel free to do otherwise.

Who said anything about lying? I didn't.

If you aren't comfortable renting, then don't rent.

I wish you well in your quest for knowledge. Eventually, MS will likely say that all the terms and conditions are outlined in the POS and other governing documents, and that one should follow them. Then what?