Expedition Everest is Official

Somehow this height requirement has managed to drop from the 44" initially stated down to a 40" kiddie land prerequisite and conversely gone up from a 48" decent thrill factor to a 54" very exclusionary megacoaster level.

The emphasis should be on one basic premise - this is to be a coaster type ride and needs to have flexibility in design in order to achieve maximum fulfillment.

There are plenty of things for the whole family to do and if your kids are around the age of 8 you can all ride this as well - even at the 48" mark. There are not that many guests being excluded if you increase the thrill factor to this slightly higher threshold but it introduces an added level of maneuverability to the ride configuration which could greatly enhance its capabilities.
 
I don't think DK is saying the new AK coaster is bad, but only that if it were souped up to the point of needing a 48" height requirement, it would be less than optimal for AK.
Everest may strike that delicate balance. Kewl enough for the preteens but non-restrictive enough that most kids over the age of 4 can ride.
Disney needs to find a balance between kewl and keeping their guests happy. Putting a (48+" higher thrill coaster) in the park would certainly be great for those of use who love these things, but half of WDW's guests probably would not ride it
Yes, yes, and yes - that is what I have been trying to say.
It has to deliver.
Of course it does - in a big time way. This is a major announcement and major addition for Disney and noone should take it lightly.
A state of the art, cutting edge disney mountain ride is far too symbolic in nature to satisfy by simply designing a greatly themed but only mid-level type of coaster attraction.
I don't believe that the fact that an attraction doesn't have a 48+ inch height restriction relegates it to 'mid-level' status.
What I find sad is that so many, including Disney themselves, seem to no longer believe it is possible to create excitement without a height restriction.
RM is right - it is unfortunate that many people think this. I, for one, don't and I believe that Disney has the capability of taking this 42 inch restricted attraction and making it a top level winner. I just hope Disney steps up to the plate on this one.
 
"Look at nearly every single attraction in the last five years or so that has created big time buzz (including Journey at TDS) and you'll see that pretty much every one has height restrictions."

Then again that could say more about Disney's ability and willingness to create "everybody rides" attractions than it says about whether the public only demands "thrills, thrills, thrills".

No one wanted 'Pirates' or 'Haunted Mansion' before they saw those rides. Perhaps Disney ought to be out there exceeding the public's expectations rather than simply pandering to it.
 
Scoop, my main point was that nobody brought dark rides into the discussion till you did, BUT there are plenty of recent Dark Rides that have been a hit with guests and YES, Tokyo's Pooh did generate BUZZ!

Also, I'd suggest that Indiana Jones, Dinosaur and spidey are all advancments on the basic Darkride premiss and while they have their height restrictions, they also have a much broader appeal then the typical steel coaster.

Of course, that is a different discussion for a different time. The topic here is revolving around rollercoaster height requirments with respect to what Animal Kingdom needs out of the ride and nothing else. It'd be nice if Everest generated some heavy Buzz, but AK needs a ride that keeps people in the park on a consistant basis, and a family friendlier ride will have a better chance of achieving that.
 


The fact is that the general consuming theme park attending public is more interested in exciting rides these days.
Objection! Counsellor is introducing facts not in evidence!

Really, Scoop - I wouldn't be so quick to throw this around as "fact". I think the public is open to being wowed by just about any kind of attraction. Someone just needs to be willing to try, kind of like some guy back in the 50's ;).
 
>>>I see parents complaining to CMs all the time about how their child should be allowed to ride despite them being too short, and these things do not reflect well on guest satisfaction.
<<<

This makes absolutely ZERO sense to me.....If a kid's parent complains that their kid should be able to ride a ride DESPITE him/her being "too short", that parent should be drawn and quartered!!! Last summer, I witnessed just that....The kid was abou 5 or 6 inches too short to ride Test Track, and his dad blew his stack!!!
I was saying to my wife, "Whoa, is this dude off his rocker???!" Why on EARTH would he complain about this restriction?! They put those restrictions in for a REASON!!
Would the father rather the CM let the kid ride...Then, god forbid, he falls out, and dies??! How utterly asinine!!!

BTW, where is it written that a "family" has to be made up of a mother, father, and a bunch of toddlers up to 6 or 8 years of age???!
My wife and I have no kids, but what about the family of a mother, father, and let's say, two teenagers???! Do they not count as a family because there are no diaper-clad, stroller-riding members who wanna ride Dumbo??! I LOVE Disney, but if they build a ride that doesn't appeal to me, I'm not gonna complain about it.....I'm just gonna tippy-toe right past it, right on to the NEXT attraction!! But like it or not, the times, they are-a-changin'....And people want thrills!! Disney KNOWS this!! If you don't want to "throw up," don't ride!! Shorter lines for me.....And while you boycott 48 inch height restricted rides, I'm gonna be all OVER those rides!! And when I'm finished, I will hit Pirates, Splash, HM, and the Liberty Belle RB, because I love both the classic stuff, AND the thrills...And if Disney can give me both like ONLY Disney can, then by crikey, I'll see you in WDW!!!
 
Someone just needs to be willing to try, kind of like some guy back in the 50's

This feels like some sort of time warp. Yes there is a demand for the slow moving/heavy show attraction that wows the audience like pirates or haunted mansion.

But right now the AK needs far more than this - it needs something as great as a coaster to generate a substantial response. I disagree that it will not be enough to help with attendance. If done brilliantly, more guests will be drawn to that venue than anywhere else in the park and more visitors will include that park in their itinerary.

Regarding the demand issue - take a good look at the attractions which have sustained continual lines for years. This should answer the question of what the general public enjoys the most.

This is not even a questionable endeavor. It will bring in the numbers provided it delivers.
 


Yes there is a demand for the slow moving/heavy show attraction that wows the audience like pirates or haunted mansion.
Who said anything about slow moving, heavy show attractions. My only point with the time warp is that Walt was willing to take a chance on something that was outside of what the guests were expecting and clamoring for. Today that probably isn't the dark rides of old, but it isn't high thrill, height restricted attractions either.
If done brilliantly, more guests will be drawn to that venue than anywhere else in the park and more visitors will include that park in their itinerary.
Are you saying this can't be done with a 42 " restricted coaster?
Regarding the demand issue - take a good look at the attractions which have sustained continual lines for years. This should answer the question of what the general public enjoys the most.
Have to catch a train, but I bet you'd lose on this one. I'll get back to you.
 
it is the next generation of "mountains" for which great themeing can be achieved at a 48" benchmark. This height requirement is no where near "higher and faster" by any means.

What are you calling theming?

The only extras gained with height requirements are height, speed, and g-forces.

Height requirements will not ensure a good story.

Height requirements will not ensure story-telling elements beyond plywood cutouts and paint.

Height requirements will not keep this from being the next R'n'RC or PW... a purchased and painted roller coaster.

And you folks talking about what AK "needs" in terms of crowd-pleasing... How silly you all appear! What AK needs is for people to spend more money there. For people to spend more money there, people have to spend more time there and buy more Cokes and McDonald's fries there. When Michael Mouse needs to increase park time per visitor... that spells FastPass!

All Everest _has_ to be to taller and faster than any other coaster at WDW. That will guarantee AK will not be the park most likely to be skipped and the Dino/Everest combo becomes AK's ToT/R'n'RC (and AK's projected M:S/TT, for that matter)

Now, contrary to popular opinion, I'm not one to bash something before I see it. You will note that nowhere have I expressed an opinion the coaster experience, only the ridiculous notion that increasing height requirements ensures better theming; and restated Disney's SOP for installing new rides over the last several years.

Expect "Dinosaur" theming from this ride: lotsa hurtling through near darkness, punctuated with bright and noisy "show scenes" designed to set up the photo-op... almost certainly at the point where the train confronts the Yeti only to be knocked backwards.

Whee. Not to cast aspersions crusader's claims; I'm going to need a little more hard evidence that this will be anything more than "R'n'RC II: Superstretch Himalayalimo" before I book 12/05.

-WFH
 
What disney needs is a "true thrill ride/attraction" and unless they are going to build something up to the quality of Indiana Jones at DL or Spiderman at IOA, with those type of ride systems they need to build the coaster with a 54 inch height limit!!!!( or 48 inches if the ride has no over the shoulder restraints).
They need something to up the ante,somthing that cant
already be found in other theme parks in FLA. Not a ride that may be a indoor equal of Big thunder mountain railroad which is a excellant attraction but isnt a thrill ride which is sorely needed at a wdw park!!!
And yoho, dinosaur wasnt an improvement but was a stepback!!! Indiana Jones set the bar very high and while dinosaur may use the same ride system it pales in comparsion to Indiana in every aspect!!! Now Spiderman was a step up which disney hasnt been able to compete against!!!
 
The only extras gained with height requirements are height, speed, and g-forces.

Absolutely not true - Alien Encounter has a height restriction because of the themeing. That is my implication here.

The 48" gives the coaster a bit of an upscale in configuration and allows for themeing beyond the 5-7 yr old age bracket.

Are you saying this can't be done with a 42 " restricted coaster?

No I believe it can't because both the themeing and the coaster would have to be designed for a younger child. Too boring for a mountain of this caliber.
 
Look around at nearly every theme park including the fine offerings at Tokyo Disney Seas and Universal and that's all the evidence you need.
Disney parks were the only parks who ever took seriously the notion that rides could be exciting/thrilling without using the latest in whirl and hurl technology.

Its always been hard to do, and, since Disney was the only one doing it and doing it well, their financial success was beyond what any other park could even dream of. Its why Disney is competing with all of the other destination resorts in the world and Coney Island or Six Flags is not.

Now, Disney has become lazy and prefers to compare themselves to their "competition", instead of to their own mission and standards. Most of us, including you I believe, agree with this. The disagreement usually comes on what the impact of this change is, and if there is any real reason to believe it will move back towards the original direction.

But regardless of our opinions on that, you can't use the fact that Disney stopped trying as evidence that it doesn't work anymore.

Of course if they put minimal effort into a minimally exclusive attraction it will most likely fail, or at least not be the big draw they need. That was always the case. If the Haunted Mansion were only a step above the local fun house at the State fair, it would have failed as a draw as well.

No, if you want evidence, you need to point to the attempts to create a truly exciting, "drawing card" type attraction without physical thrills, that FAILED.

To suggest that AK needs a non-height restricted ride for than one that includes a height restriction for safety purposes, is to basically refute the years of claims that BK needs to be.
I think you'll find that those who insisted that BK was the only solution are not the same who are insisting the only solution now inovolves height restrictions.

That's malarckey. Nobody said it when Splash was built, Tower was built, Indy was built, or Journey was built.
True, and if the more recent additions had the quality of the attractions you named, it would be malarckey. But they don't. Check out Soarin'... the show is practically non-existent.

So using your above logic, the fact that Disney is no longer producing Splash/Tower/Indy quality height restricted attractions, it would follow that these type are no longer successful, and only bare bones thrill attractions, like Screamin', Soarin', and PW are successful.

THAT would be marlarckey, and I'm sure you wouldn't agree with it.

For whatever reason, Disney has become reliant on the same physical factors other theme parks use in order to thrill their guests. As such, they will need to begin accepting financial models more in-line with other theme parks, and be willing to invest in the physical thrill arms race they seem so willing to join.

Unless, of course, they are truly returning to making the story the most important factor.....but it'll take more than a drawing to sell that.

Yes there is a demand for the slow moving/heavy show attraction that wows the audience like pirates or haunted mansion.
I don't know how many times this has to be said before it gets through, but I'm going to keep saying it until it does get through....if you look at Pirates or HM as they stand today as examples of what the "more inclusive" crowd is talking about, you are completely missing the point.

If you look at the reactions they generated WHEN THEY OPENED, you are getting the point.

The attraction does not have to be a slow-moving omni-mover based attraction with scenes developed using 1960's technology.

Just look at movies as an analogy. Did movie effects stand still since 1969? Of course not. Then why do we have to assume that ride effects, other than those involving physical effects, have stood still since 1969?
 
Then why do we have to assume that ride effects, other than those involving physical effects, have stood still since 1969?
I like Tower of Terror for the stuff that happens before entering the drop chute, not the stuff after. I could really go for a ride that featured more visual effects like the one's TOT has.
 
Absolutely not true - Alien Encounter has a height restriction because of the themeing. That is my implication here.

You're bringing up Alien Encouter as an example of a ride that backs your suggestions for Disney's new ride?

Why? AE is not, and Everest will not be, nearly enough to attract real thrill fans. So you're bringing in no new audience, just redistributing the vanishing audience you've already got. And by playing height restriction (not to mention cheap haunted house) games, you're literally alienating some of your most traditional market.

This is one of those places where either end of the spectrum makes good sense, but there is no compelling business case for the exercise in compromises you describe (and are likely to receive).

Given Disney's recent history (and the posts of many of the apparently most fervent Disney supporters on this board), I say Everest is highly likely to end up an unfocused mish-mash of marketing points and store bought parts... making it the perfect NAHTATHRILLRIDE for this unfocused mish-mash of Lion Country Safari and the Myrtle Beach Pavilion we like to call NAHTAZU.

-WFH
 
if you look at Pirates or HM as they stand today as examples of what the "more inclusive" crowd is talking about, you are completely missing the point.

No I get it. These are the only examples of the show type attractions the non thrill seekers continue to refer to when remarking on a need for a 21st century addition.

For me, Tower of Terror is the most recent example of this level of accomplishment. For those who cannot take a ride with any jolts or speed, the omni-mover transport has to be incorporated into a greatly themed attraction in order to satisfy that guests demand for more.
 
Well, since we're gonna play the Pirates/Haunted game whether we want to or not, I'll go with it.

Pirates was last of a breed. Oh yeah, Epcot was filled with Pirates like rides, but none was built to the scale and goals of Disneyland's Pirates of the Caribbean. I maintain that the Audience's desire for such a ride using newer technology is completely unkown, because nobody has attempted it. Therefore to make statements about what the popularity of such an attraction would be can not help but to be unfounded. You have no PROOF counsler one way or the other what the public might think of a ride like pirates.


Now then, For all of you who have watched me argue against a Height restriction, I'm gonna go back on myself and say that perhaps a Higher height restriction wouldn't be TOO bad. I say this because, Indiana Jones and the Temple of the Forbidden eye has a 46" height restriction.

Indiana Jones is the best modern ride Disney has ever made PERIOD!!! Better then tower, better then splash, lightyears better then Dinosaur its cousin.

For that matter, Dinosaur was better when it was countdown to Extinction and had a higher height restriction.


I still however maintain that as far as coasters go, its still about the Themeing. The Earthquake as you go through the cavern on BTM is still one of the best parts of the ride.

Disney needs to focus on Imersivness as thrilling even on a coaster ride. Something they also have failed to do since the seventies.


Finally, Mr. Frozen Head, I understand and agree that the Modus Operandi of the Disney Corp at this time dictates certain things, However I'm also confident in my conviction that Imagineering has drawn up some excellent plans and it is simply a matter of waiting for Burbank to destroy them.

I see most of this thread as an theoretical debate on what the company SHOULD do, not what WILL happen. My enthusiasm for what this very very broken company will manage to pull out is disturbingly low as it is. I don't need to be reminded. ;)
 
You're bringing up Alien Encouter as an example of a ride that backs your suggestions for Disney's new ride?

AE is an example of a ride with a height restriction which has no speed, g-forces or drops. Simply put it is restricted because of the nature of the show which is too intense for a young audience.

My suggestion that disney push the envelope more and consider raising the height requirement is to incorporate more intense themeing with a better ride configuration. I am not looking for AE here. I am looking for something on a much grander scale beyond that designed for the younger audience.

making it the perfect NAHTATHRILLRIDE for this unfocused mish-mash of Lion Country Safari and the Myrtle Beach Pavilion we like to call NAHTAZU.

They need a hit - and if they pull it off it will be one step in the right direction. AK is not beyond resurrection. It can be saved. Everest warrants the chance to prove it has substance.
 
I maintain that the Audience's desire for such a ride using newer technology is completely unkown, because nobody has attempted it.
Thank you. I'll even go further and point out that even a rather weak attempt like Buzz has strong popularity. Imagine what COULD have been done...

For me, Tower of Terror is the most recent example of this level of accomplishment. For those who cannot take a ride with any jolts or speed, the omni-mover transport has to be incorporated into a greatly themed attraction in order to satisfy that guests demand for more.
As Douglas said, Tower like effects, enhanced and multiplied, might also reach that level of accomplishment. It's not the fact that ToT uses accelerated drops that makes it a great attraction... many amusement parks have this now.

But AGAIN, its not that having a physical factor precludes an attraction from reaching Pirates/HM levels, its just that its not a requirement. You'd be surprised at what some truly creative people could come up with when presented that type of goal.


The Frozen One also brings up a good point about trying to be all things for all people, instead of concentrating on your mission and core values.
 
Sorry to jump in here mid-thread on you guys, but as someone who has chosen to "speak with my feet" I have only two things to say. First any attraction height restricted or not- thrill or not is a step in the right direction. Second and most important as most have chosen not to comment the best thing about this new attraction if hopefully ME will need a parkhopper to ride!
 
maybe they could build a dual track coaster one at 40" one at 48" that exit at the same spot (read guft shop) so families of varying heights can easily meet up.
 

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