Ex spouse trumped my vacation to WDW with the kids

[DisneySarah80]

I'm taking the mom's side because it seems that the dad has purposely tried to steal her thunder by taking their kids to the same place their mom had planned to take them. It was spiteful. If this same thing had happened in reverse, I would have posted the same same thing, switching the genders.

This. Like I said in my first post, I'm sure the kids had mentioned to the father that they were saving their money and going to Disney. Why would be then, turn around, and take them before their planned vacation without telling the mother?? If he had told the mother of his plans, then I'd still think it was scummish (new word, I made it up!) but not as bad as doing it behind her back.

 

[OhdahLolly]

Pretty much this entire thread has been bashing the exhusband (or should i say children's father).

There is no way that anybody on here can make a judgement way or another other as to what is going on in this situation. The problem is that most people will automatically side with the mother. I agree with the previous poster that this story is so full of holes. And sorry I think that your friend calling him on vacation is crazy.

At worst the children's father is being childish and vindictive but he is still spending time with his children and taking them on a vacation. Really people are saying how selfish this guy is and then suggesting or implying the the OP should have stopped him from taking the kids to disney so the it didn't put a damper on her trip? So what if the OP's feelings are hurt that she isn't the first one to take them after the divorce (despite all the comments otherwise sounds a little selfish to me) like some other people have said it should not be a competition. Be happy that they are going and then turn around and have a great time yourself.

Whoever's fault it is the said thing is that the children will pay. I think the OP needs stop playing the maytr, move on with her life, and enjoy her trip with the kids to disney.

You say that no one can make judgements, but the first words you've got are judgements that most will side with the mother and that the story is full of holes.


In my opinion, it was a jerk thing for the ex to do. Especially since he knew his kids and his ex were planning for this a long time and were not even a month from going on when he decided to take them. He didn't even tell her that he was taking them out of the state. Now to me, that is several levels of wrong as she is their primary care giver, and he didn't let her know that he planned to take her kids from the state. I can tell you right now if my mother would have done this with me, my dad would have been *furious* and he would not have let it slide.

Seems like the kids know that this trip was motivated not by a fathers love to spend time with his kids, but to screw over their mother in the process, which causes guilt on the part of the kids.

Hopefully they will be able to have a good time, and she (the mom) can focus that her kids do benefit from back to back trips to disney. Inspite of any negative intentions, a good amount of positive came from it.

 

[tjmj9801]

I'm taking the mom's side because it seems that the dad has purposely tried to steal her thunder by taking their kids to the same place their mom had planned to take them. It was spiteful. If this same thing had happened in reverse, I would have posted the same same thing, switching the genders.

I couldn't agree more. It's not about "mom is good, dad is bad", it's about trying to outdo the other parent in an attempt to buy favoritism. Had a dad posted here about his ex wife doing this, you'd better believe I'd be saying the same stuff about the ex wife. It's just wrong to do this to your kids and ex partner.

 

[excited4dis]

Not taking sides but I do see that this thread has followed the usual Dis pattern. Mother good, father bad - all based on one side of the story.

I have to disagree with this. I don't see anyone attacking fathers or ex-husbands. In fact, some posters even mentioned the mothers being the vindictive ones. It can happen on both sides. Sometimes it's the ex-wife being a jerk and sometimes it's the ex-husband being a jerk. In this particular case, it sounds like the ex husband.

Unfortunately, my ex-husband is the same way. He never treats me with respect. For example, he took the kids on vacation last Thursday and he was not making them available to speak with. He finally let my one son call me today. Do you know what time? 6:15am! I can tell you right now he was being vindictive because he knows I am not awake at that hour so he was either hoping that I wouldn't answer the phone or he would wake me up. There was no reason for it except to be spiteful. I, however, gladly excepted the call just so I could speak with my kids. I told them I hope they have a wonderful vacation with their dad and that I loved them.

I get people all the time telling me to give him the same treatment he gives me but I refuse to use my children as pawns like he does. I know not every ex-husband is like him. I have high respect for father's that really want the best for their kids.

But to me, the op's ex sounds like he did this out of spite. Knowing she was taking them to Disney, he could have taken them some other time or taken the kids elsewhere.

 

[pioneer89]

Just in case HMerritt is still reading, I'd like to offer some general advice (just in case you have not heard it before.)

Read your custody order over and over again, until you are sure you understand exactly what it orders you and your Ex to do. If anything is unclear, write it down.

For instance:

Is there out of state notification for travel, and how much time is needed?
Is contact with the other parent dictated, and how often? (Are you both ordered to give phone access to the other parent, and how often?)
Is there clarity on how "skipped" weekends and weeks are handled?
Is there clarity on how changes to the custody schedule are handled?

If your Ex is violating any of the conditions of the order, document, document, document, and then send a RRR letter to him informing him of the exact violation. Taking him to court over one or two violations would likely do nothing but irritate a judge (even in Dad-hostile states like Georgia).

If he is skipping any of his time with the kids, document that too.

Once you have all this, and any required time has elapsed (most states require a certain ammount of time after a custody order) go back to court for a modification. Ask for specifics, and give clear reasons for those specifics. (Examples: Ask for court ordered 20 minutes of phone time between 8pm and 10pm every night, because between June 10th and June 25th 2011, Ex Hubby refused contact with the children. Ask for $75/month extra support because between January 1 and July 1 2011, ex hubby missed 14 days of ordered custody, and you cared for the children.)

Another thing, since it sounds like the Ex is still getting under your skin, make sure all communication between you is via text or email. Any drop-off/pick-up converstaions need to be followed by an email, or it never happened. If you both agree verbally to swap summer weeks, and he takes the kids for your week, he can turn around and keep them for his, claiming there was no agreement. And if you refuse, then you are in violation of the order, not him.. not fair, but it happens.

You said you let him have extra time for his Disney trip. It sounds like you are trying very hard not to let the kids be negatively impacted by your divorce. If he plays nice as well, then your life will be a lot easier. But if he does not play nice, then document, record, and play by the rules, and your kids will learn a lot about how not to be pushed around.


I hope you have the BEST. DISNEY. VACATION. EVER.

 

[disneydreamgirl]

I hope you have the BEST. DISNEY. VACATION. EVER.

Great advice prior to this...and I wish exactly the above for you and your kids as well.

 

[declansdad]

I'm taking the mom's side because it seems that the dad has purposely tried to steal her thunder by taking their kids to the same place their mom had planned to take them. It was spiteful. If this same thing had happened in reverse, I would have posted the same same thing, switching the genders.

The key word is "seems". As in the case of many of these threads, we only get one side.

 

[declansdad]

totally agree. I think some people are so quick to take the story to a whole new level.

IF the ex husband knew that the kids mom was taking them to Disney, then yeah, it was pretty crappy that he went and took them to spite her. But if he DIDN'T know that they were all going, maybe he's just trying to be a good dad. It shouldn't be a competition. It should be for the love of the kids, not "who's better" or "who can spend more".

I married a man who has a very young daughter. He's the best father that anyone could hope for. His ex is the spiteful one and the one that does things to ruin someone else's surprise and uses my step dd as a pawn. When my step DD is with her, she is alone 90% of the time... her mother doesn't want to spend time with her, she wants the child support. it's very sad.
She's the love of my life, and as another posted implied, not all step parents are the Tremains. Some of us step parents TRULY love our step children and wants what's best for them.

So, sometimes things aren't always what they seem. Sometimes that dad isn't crappy.....sometimes he too, is just trying to find a little peace. Without the whole story, I think the best we all should do is pat the OP on the back and tell her to carry on and take her kids on a magical vacation.

I agree completely.

 

[tjmj9801]

Just in case HMerritt is still reading, I'd like to offer some general advice (just in case you have not heard it before.)

Read your custody order over and over again, until you are sure you understand exactly what it orders you and your Ex to do. If anything is unclear, write it down.

For instance:

Is there out of state notification for travel, and how much time is needed?
Is contact with the other parent dictated, and how often? (Are you both ordered to give phone access to the other parent, and how often?)
Is there clarity on how "skipped" weekends and weeks are handled?
Is there clarity on how changes to the custody schedule are handled?

If your Ex is violating any of the conditions of the order, document, document, document, and then send a RRR letter to him informing him of the exact violation. Taking him to court over one or two violations would likely do nothing but irritate a judge (even in Dad-hostile states like Georgia).

If he is skipping any of his time with the kids, document that too.

Once you have all this, and any required time has elapsed (most states require a certain ammount of time after a custody order) go back to court for a modification. Ask for specifics, and give clear reasons for those specifics. (Examples: Ask for court ordered 20 minutes of phone time between 8pm and 10pm every night, because between June 10th and June 25th 2011, Ex Hubby refused contact with the children. Ask for $75/month extra support because between January 1 and July 1 2011, ex hubby missed 14 days of ordered custody, and you cared for the children.)

Another thing, since it sounds like the Ex is still getting under your skin, make sure all communication between you is via text or email. Any drop-off/pick-up converstaions need to be followed by an email, or it never happened. If you both agree verbally to swap summer weeks, and he takes the kids for your week, he can turn around and keep them for his, claiming there was no agreement. And if you refuse, then you are in violation of the order, not him.. not fair, but it happens.

You said you let him have extra time for his Disney trip. It sounds like you are trying very hard not to let the kids be negatively impacted by your divorce. If he plays nice as well, then your life will be a lot easier. But if he does not play nice, then document, record, and play by the rules, and your kids will learn a lot about how not to be pushed around.


I hope you have the BEST. DISNEY. VACATION. EVER.

GREAT advice!!

 

[Queen2PrincessG]

I couldn't agree more. It's not about "mom is good, dad is bad", it's about trying to outdo the other parent in an attempt to buy favoritism. Had a dad posted here about his ex wife doing this, you'd better believe I'd be saying the same stuff about the ex wife. It's just wrong to do this to your kids and ex partner.

Exactly! OP said that he knew they were planning on gong. I'm not sure why she told him but I think she has learned not to trust him.

Is it really illegal for him to take his children out of state? NOPE If he has weekend custody he can!

 

[dmccarty]

Good gracious but this thread got big fast.

Usually I read the whole thread but there is no way I have them time on this one.

From the first post it seems like the kids have been to WDW before. This is not there first visit.

I can see a bit of the OP angst against the Ex. But part of the fun of gong to WDW is the planning and talking about the trip. The kids had that with the OP.

I know *** I *** would love to have back to back trips to WDW. Our kids ask for it every year. They never want to leave. The DW certainly would love back to back trips.

The trip should go on. I would be shocked if the kids would say, "Oh we are bored and do not want to go again. We just went."

Just go on the trip.

Later,
Dan

 

[declansdad]

Not sure why you're going here...OP asked for support and there are lots of threads on here that are pro-Dad and great examples of Dads who participate here that are fantastic. (That being said, I haven't read every post.)

I couldn't agree more. It's not about "mom is good, dad is bad", it's about trying to outdo the other parent in an attempt to buy favoritism. Had a dad posted here about his ex wife doing this, you'd better believe I'd be saying the same stuff about the ex wife. It's just wrong to do this to your kids and ex partner.

I have to disagree with this. I don't see anyone attacking fathers or ex-husbands. In fact, some posters even mentioned the mothers being the vindictive ones. It can happen on both sides. Sometimes it's the ex-wife being a jerk and sometimes it's the ex-husband being a jerk. In this particular case, it sounds like the ex husband.

Unfortunately, my ex-husband is the same way. He never treats me with respect. For example, he took the kids on vacation last Thursday and he was not making them available to speak with. He finally let my one son call me today. Do you know what time? 6:15am! I can tell you right now he was being vindictive because he knows I am not awake at that hour so he was either hoping that I wouldn't answer the phone or he would wake me up. There was no reason for it except to be spiteful. I, however, gladly excepted the call just so I could speak with my kids. I told them I hope they have a wonderful vacation with their dad and that I loved them.

I get people all the time telling me to give him the same treatment he gives me but I refuse to use my children as pawns like he does. I know not every ex-husband is like him. I have high respect for father's that really want the best for their kids.

But to me, the op's ex sounds like he did this out of spite. Knowing she was taking them to Disney, he could have taken them some other time or taken the kids elsewhere.

In my years on the Dis, I have watched many fathers/men in general being made out to be the bad guy when an ex partner posts something about them. All you have to do is look around and you will see it all the time. In fact there was a thread about this Dis phenomena a while back and even that one had posters bashing the men.

My point is that we have one side of this story, yet everone is able to infer that this os the correct side. In many cases, there are three sides - the ex-wife, the ex-husband, and what really is going on.


If the OP's husband truly did this out of spite, he is a complete JA but I doubt we will ever know because he won't be here to offer his side.

 

[kamik86]

In my years on the Dis, I have watched many fathers/men in general being made out to be the bad guy when an ex partner posts something about them. All you have to do is look around and you will see it all the time. In fact there was a thread about this Dis phenomena a while back and even that one had posters bashing the men.

My point is that we have one side of this story, yet everone is able to infer that this os the correct side. In many cases, there are three sides - the ex-wife, the ex-husband, and what really is going on.


If the OP's husband truly did this out of spite, he is a complete JA but I doubt we will ever know because he won't be here to offer his side.

My experience with message boards in general is actually that the OP's side always wins. So if posted by the wife the husband is awful. If posted by the husband, the wife is awful.

 

[excited4dis]

No offense Declansdad, but you are the one who seems to be taking sides. It sounds like you are taking the dad's side just because he is a man. There I said it.

You are making this into something it's not.

The op posted about how her feelings were hurt. She is not looking for ways to be vindictive, just trying to find a way to deal with it all.

We all know there are just as many crappy mothers out there as there are fathers.

Please stop trying to make this thread into something it's not.

 

[declansdad]

No offense Declansdad, but you are the one who seems to be taking sides. It sounds like you are taking the dad's side just because he is a man. There I said it.

You are making this into something it's not.

The op posted about how her feelings were hurt. She is not looking for ways to be vindictive, just trying to find a way to deal with it all.

We all know there are just as many crappy mothers out there as there are fathers.

Please stop trying to make this thread into something it's not.

I didn't take any side but many other posters have. That is the point I was making.

My thoughts on her question is that she should deal with it by taking the trip. There is no need for any other commentary on her personal situation.

 

[dmoore718]

She did clarify that he was aware of their trip to Disney as they were making their summer visitation schedule.

However, I would say, let it go and ENJOY the trip. When I was a kid, leaving Disney was so depressing....knowing I was going to get to come back with some people I LOVED, in just a few weeks later, I would LOVE it!

Encourage them to have a GREAT time!!! Tell them how special they are to go 2x in one summer and that you are going to have a great time. Staying at AKL sounds like a treat in itself!

So, try to relax, let out the tears while they are gone, and then ENJOY YOUR trip with them..I'm sure they will!!

 

[BigEars151]

You say that no one can make judgements, but the first words you've got are judgements that most will side with the mother and that the story is full of holes.


In my opinion, it was a jerk thing for the ex to do. Especially since he knew his kids and his ex were planning for this a long time and were not even a month from going on when he decided to take them. He didn't even tell her that he was taking them out of the state. Now to me, that is several levels of wrong as she is their primary care giver, and he didn't let her know that he planned to take her kids from the state. I can tell you right now if my mother would have done this with me, my dad would have been *furious* and he would not have let it slide.

Seems like the kids know that this trip was motivated not by a fathers love to spend time with his kids, but to screw over their mother in the process, which causes guilt on the part of the kids.

Hopefully they will be able to have a good time, and she (the mom) can focus that her kids do benefit from back to back trips to disney. Inspite of any negative intentions, a good amount of positive came from it.

I agree that if he took the kids just because she was going that is pretty low to the ex. But if we are talking about the kids then it is great they get to spend 3/4 weeks in Disney. So i think we need to be clear that this perticular action really only hurt the ex. Unfortunately based on the story there seems to be some spill over to the children. I don't know why and could only be making assumptions. The all important backstory is missing what is his relationship like with the kids and why? Are either of the parents talking bad about the other, kids taking sides in the divorce, etc... there is no way to know, however there has to be something because otherwise why would the kids be crying because they are on a vacation with a parent. Again could the fault of either i don't know.

Which gets us back to the backstory. Perhaps the father is just a complete @## as evidence of him not involving them with his new marriage and the kids know it and therefore he deserves all the scorn heaped upon him.

However perhaps the OP is the one with the problem. She is really upset that her kids are going to disney because it is "raining on her parade". Her friend called the ex to b@$ch at him maybe that is why the cell is turned off. She says that she has had to stay two steps in front of him yet is calling out of state to see if he got remarried. Maybe he had been planning this surprise trip for the kids before he found out about her plans and maybe he was worried that she would tell the kids. Perhaps the kids were not at the wedding because the OP made it known that she wasn't happy with his new relationship (there was that smart comment in the post about getting remarried right away) and that was causing problems.

Point is who knows to many ifs in this story.

 

[torinsmom]

I think it depends on the custody agreement whether taking kids out of the state without the other parent's knowledge is okay or not. Evidently, it is written into my ex's custody agreement with his second ex-wife. When he took the kids(her DD and my DS) to an amusement park that straddles our state and SC, DS said he wasn't going to tell his DD's mom, b/c he wasn't supposed to take her out of state.

IMHO, it is common courtesy to let the other parent know if you will be taking the child somewhere other than your home. When we go to WDW, the beach or wherever, I always let my ex know and give him the contact info. He does the same for me, if he takes my son out of town overnight. And he always answers my calls and has never not allowed my son to take my calls. Of course, I don't call a million times or anything and abuse the information.

 

[shalom]

My experience with message boards in general is actually that the OP's side always wins. So if posted by the wife the husband is awful. If posted by the husband, the wife is awful.

Yep. Which is as it should be, IMHO -- the OP is generally asking for support and advice, which is pretty much all you can legitimately give them on a board. Right or wrong judgment calls are pretty meaningless when you're only getting one side of the story. But knowing who is right or wrong is often beside the point when discussing how to cope with a bad relationship anyhow (which right there tells you what sort of advice I think best ).

Another constant is that some people advise the OP to "do the right thing," while others advise them to "stick it to" the supposed offender, and a third group wanders off into a "who's right and who's wrong" discussion that cannot be resolved because not even the OP really has access to all the facts, so even assuming they were brutally honest about the facts as they know them, any judgment call would still be uninformed. But the right-or-wrong posters are generally talking more about their own issues than those of the OP, anyhow.

 

[Rip]

I agree that if he took the kids just because she was going that is pretty low to the ex. But if we are talking about the kids then it is great they get to spend 3/4 weeks in Disney. So i think we need to be clear that this perticular action really only hurt the ex. Unfortunately based on the story there seems to be some spill over to the children. I don't know why and could only be making assumptions. The all important backstory is missing what is his relationship like with the kids and why? Are either of the parents talking bad about the other, kids taking sides in the divorce, etc... there is no way to know, however there has to be something because otherwise why would the kids be crying because they are on a vacation with a parent. Again could the fault of either i don't know.

Which gets us back to the backstory. Perhaps the father is just a complete @## as evidence of him not involving them with his new marriage and the kids know it and therefore he deserves all the scorn heaped upon him.

However perhaps the OP is the one with the problem. She is really upset that her kids are going to disney because it is "raining on her parade". Her friend called the ex to b@$ch at him maybe that is why the cell is turned off. She says that she has had to stay two steps in front of him yet is calling out of state to see if he got remarried. Maybe he had been planning this surprise trip for the kids before he found out about her plans and maybe he was worried that she would tell the kids. Perhaps the kids were not at the wedding because the OP made it known that she wasn't happy with his new relationship (there was that smart comment in the post about getting remarried right away) and that was causing problems.

Point it who knows to many ifs in this story.

This.