Evolution vs Creation

[mimmom]

If they existed at the same time then wouldn't there be some evidence of that? What form would that evidence take? Maybe some bones of people and dinosaurs buried at the same level underground? If they existed at the same time there would be some way to prove it. It's up to the people who are saying this to prove it because it is impossible to prove a negative. If I say that humans and dinosaurs didn't exist at the same time there's no way I can prove that because you can't prove a negative. I'm trying to think of a way to illustrate this. Let's say you think someone broke into your house. If something was taken you have proof that they WERE in your house. But you can't prove that they weren't. You can say, "I see no evidence that anyone was here" but just because there is no evidence doesn't mean they weren't. You can't be scientific about it because there is no way to test that theory. It's just the nature of the question one is asking.

As a Creationist and a Christian It is a particular hobby of mine learning how to defend my beliefs in a scientific way. A lot of the evidence is taking the same things that people use to prove evolution. (I'm talking marco evolution not Micro. Micro Evolution can be proven and is a fact. Macro however is a theory and a belief.) As a Creationist I start with the belief that God created the earth in 7 literal days. Evolution starts out with the belief that the earth is millions of years old. Both sides start out with a belief and then use the evidence to back up that belief.
The simple answer is that humans and dinosaurs lived at the exact same time. They were actually created on the exact same day.
I will happy to answer any questions any one has about what I believe if they are asked in nice way.

 

[kmbound]

I am afraid that I was the start of this whole conversation with, what I thought to be an innocent remark on a forum asking about how intensely religion was promoted during MVMCP. Here is a link to that forum:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1630950

For clarification purposes - Although I don't agree with the theory of evolution I don't "have a problem" with what is said or promoted to the point of banning the ride or wanting to picket Disney for its removal. I will ride it in 25 days and can't wait and will take my children. I am not afraid of exposing my children to "anti-god" teaching. I am secure enough in my Christian beliefs to be able to confidently explain what and why I believe what I do.

For any who care here is a link to a site that does a great job of explaining the Biblical viewpoint of Creation vs. Evolution. Its worth some exploration for any interested.

My view on the whole thing - God created the world in 6 literal real 24 hour days and then rested on the 7th. Dinosaurs were part of His creation and truly existed until the flood written about in Genesis 6. They were not able to exist in the altered post-world flood and became extinct. Also, I do believe that it is possible to find fossils, rocks and other things that date to millions of years (although the carbon dating system is seriously flawed). One cannot assume that everything created was brand new at creation. Is it not within the realm of possibility that God would create something with age - even millions of years? After all, Adam was not a baby at the moment of creation but rather a fully mature adult (the Bible would indicate either 30 or 33 years old).

My two cents - from the guy that started this whole darn thing. Sorry for the length.

 

[kmbound]

Forgot to link to the creation site here it is

http://www.answersingenesis.org/

Sorry for the mistake.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I]

what and why I believe what I do.

For any who care here is a link to a site that does a great job of explaining the Biblical viewpoint of Creation vs. Evolution. Its worth some exploration for any interested.

.

I would say that site explains a biblical viewpoint... There is more than one viewpoint held by the religious based on their understanding of the bible

 

[kmbound]

I would say that site explains a biblical viewpoint... There is more than one viewpoint held by the religious based on their understanding of the bible

Good point Jenny. There are those that would be on my side of the issue - meaning creationist and anti evolution yet see the dinosaurs as non-biblical. I have friends that see it this way. So thanks for pointing out that the answers in genesis site is A biblical perspective. Though for my two cents worth I agree with the vast majority of what is on the site but have to admit that I do not agree with everything there.

 

[yearbook50]

kmbound - Thank you for your views. I know the comment you posted was an innocent side comment to that thread

 

[Alesia]

Yes, evolution is only a theory. So is the existence of gravity.

Anyone who is interested in learning more about the science of evolution should listen to the Evolution 101 podcast. It is incredibly interesting. There is a lot more scientific evidence for evolution than most people realize and this podcast explains it really well.

 

[LoraJ]

Big Bang Theory by Barenaked Ladies.

Our whole universe was in a hot dense state,
Then nearly fourteen billion years ago expansion started. Wait...
The Earth began to cool,
The autotrophs began to drool,
Neanderthals developed tools,
We built a wall (we built the pyramids),
Math, science, history, unravelling the mysteries,
That all started with the big bang!

"Since the dawn of man" is really not that long,
As every galaxy was formed in less time than it takes to sing this song.
A fraction of a second and the elements were made.
The bipeds stood up straight,
The dinosaurs all met their fate,
They tried to leap but they were late
And they all died (they froze their ___ off)
The oceans and pangea
See ya, wouldn't wanna be ya
Set in motion by the same big bang!

It all started with the big BANG!

It's expanding ever outward but one day
It will cause the stars to go the other way,
Collapsing ever inward, we won't be here, it wont be hurt
Our best and brightest figure that it'll make an even bigger bang!

Australopithecus would really have been sick of us
Debating out while here they're catching deer (we're catching viruses)
Religion or astronomy, Encarta, Deuteronomy
It all started with the big bang!

Music and mythology, Einstein and astrology
It all started with the big bang!
It all started with the big BANG!


(sorry - just wanted to sing this song for you all)

 

[themarquis]

Duuhhhhh.....

They're called Jesus Horses, people.

 

[thewishfire]

I fully believe in evolution. If there is a god and he/she/it started it all, I cannot say.

I'm an anthropology major and am taking a class now about human origins and evolution. It's extremely interesting.

 

[Diva of Dragons]

If they existed at the same time then wouldn't there be some evidence of that? What form would that evidence take? Maybe some bones of people and dinosaurs buried at the same level underground? If they existed at the same time there would be some way to prove it. It's up to the people who are saying this to prove it because it is impossible to prove a negative. If I say that humans and dinosaurs didn't exist at the same time there's no way I can prove that because you can't prove a negative. I'm trying to think of a way to illustrate this. Let's say you think someone broke into your house. If something was taken you have proof that they WERE in your house. But you can't prove that they weren't. You can say, "I see no evidence that anyone was here" but just because there is no evidence doesn't mean they weren't. You can't be scientific about it because there is no way to test that theory. It's just the nature of the question one is asking.

I posted this link on this thread already but here is some scientific food for thought: http://www.dinosaur-extinction.com/

 

[tm67]

We shouldn't be surprised that dinosaurs are not mentioned in the Bible as such.
The word "dinosaur" was invented only about 150 years ago. So the actual word "dinosaur" will not be in the Bible. This does not mean the Bible is inaccurate in its' description of history or that God didn't know about dinosaurs - after all, cats aren't mentioned in the Bible either.

Just because there is yet to be found a universally accepted fossil record of man and dinosaurs co-existing does not mean that they didn't co-exist. Take the case of Coelacanth - there was no record of this fish in fossils since the so-called Cretaceous period so any idea that it co-existed with creatures that lived supposedly millions of years afterwards would be rejected. Then they found one living in the Indian ocean. So it must have co-existed with all the creatures that lived since the Cretaceous period - but the fossil record does not show that it did.

Incidentally, there is some very interesting rock art in Kachina Bridge, Natural Bridges National Park, Utah which depict a dinosaur. There are other examples of rock art in North America but I can't remember where. In Carlisle Cathedral in England on a 15th century tomb there is a brass etching showing many kinds of animal common in Britain - a weasel, a fish, a dog, a pig, a bird and... a dinosaur! Now how could someone living in the 15th century draw a dinosaur if they have been extinct for millions of years? The inclusion of such a drawing along with "real" animals makes the interpretation that it is a mythical creature difficult to sustain. If there were a unicorn, for example, or other such mythical beasts then this explanation would hold credence. So perhaps some dinosaurs survived till quite modern times after all.

If evolution were true there should be fossil evidence of the ancestor of all dinosaurs. Also, there should be fossil evidence of the intermediary forms of dinosaur. Both of these are non-existent in the fossil record. Dinosaurs appear abruptly and fully formed.

Hope this helps the discussion along.

 

[Charade]

Yes, evolution is only a theory. So is the existence of gravity.

Gravity is not a theory.

 

[Sir Ron]

You didn't muster much...

 

[salmoneous]

For something to be considered a scientific fact you have to be able to repeat it or observe it.

Again, this simple isn't true. You say you want to look at things scientifically, but then you repeatedly say things about science that aren't true.

Faith is faith, and science is science. If you want to follow your faith to understand the origins of the earth, follow your faith. But if you want to follow science, you have to follow the logic of science and available evidence wherever they may lead.

 

[smartestnumber5]

Gravity is not a theory.

Yes it is.

Google "Newton's theory of gravity." You will get a ton of hits that interchangeably talk about Newton's "law" of gravity and Newton's "theory" of gravity. That's because a law and a theory are not really that different.
(Here's an explanation of the difference from a chair of a university biology dept: http://science.kennesaw.edu/~rmatson/3380theory.html)



I don't know where the idea that anything in science is "just a theory." If something is a scientific theory (gravity, relativity, quantum mechanics, plate tectonics) that means it is well supported by evidence, is accepted by the vast majority of scientists in the field, and helps unify the field by explaining the phenomena it does. There is no "just". Ideas in science could be "just" a hypothesis if it hasn't stood up to rigorous testing yet. But evolution isn't a hypothesis because it has stood up to such testing. So if evolution is "just a theory" so is gravity.

 

[salmoneous]

I've always wondered if there were people that believed the evolution and God co-existed. I've always been a science person which is why I had a hard time believing about the 7 literal days.

No reason to wonder. Of course there are folks who believe in evolution and God. I'd guess most folks who believe in evolution believe in God.

Evolution and religion are separate - one doesn't support or contradict the other.

You can believe in God, and not believe that the story He gives us in the Bible are meant to be taken literally.

 

[Fitswimmer]

To be honest, I don't really think about the very, very beginning of time or the very, very end of time too much. I've got enough to worry about getting through the here and now to think about it.

However, Catholics have a history of problems with science, (Galileo, anyone?) but I think we've improved since then. Catholics believe in evolution, but we do believe God had a hand in it. This is from Catholic Answers:

concerning cosmological evolution, the Church has infallibly defined that the universe was specially created out of nothing. Vatican I solemnly defined that everyone must "confess the world and all things which are contained in it, both spiritual and material, as regards their whole substance, have been produced by God from nothing" (Canons on God the Creator of All Things, canon 5).

The Church does not have an official position on whether the stars, nebulae, and planets we see today were created at that time or whether they developed over time (for example, in the aftermath of the Big Bang that modern cosmologists discuss). However, the Church would maintain that, if the stars and planets did develop over time, this still ultimately must be attributed to God and his plan, for Scripture records: "By the word of the Lord the heavens were made, and all their host [stars, nebulae, planets] by the breath of his mouth" (Ps. 33:6).

Concerning biological evolution, the Church does not have an official position on whether various life forms developed over the course of time. However, it says that, if they did develop, then they did so under the impetus and guidance of God, and their ultimate creation must be ascribed to him.

 

[KimR]

I have heard some religious people say that the Dinosaurs didn't exist and it's a fraud. I think it's pretty safe to say that it would be damn near impossible to pull off a hoax of that magnitude.

No, there's an answer for everything. My MIL is a fundamentalist Christian and she insists that Satan planted the dinosaur bones in order to deceive people. If someone is very firm in their beliefs, no amount of scientific evidence is going to convince them otherwise.

 

[bluefairy13]

No reason to wonder. Of course there are folks who believe in evolution and God. I'd guess most folks who believe in evolution believe in God.
.

Most Catholics, anyway. I've never met a Catholic that didn't accept evolution.