Evolution vs Creation

[Diva of Dragons]

The Bible was formed by humans. To say the bible has not ever been manipulated by human hands is quite false. King James changed things in the bible. One must always remember that God might have communicated things to people, but some things have been miscontrued through translations and some things were intentionally manipulated.

This is interesting. King James never did anything to the Bible. It was put into that translation as a commemoration of his coronation and the bringing together of two nations. It was written by "court" writers and entertainers. There is actually some evidence that suggests Shakespeare and his contemporaries had a hand in it.

Before and after the Bible was ever "translated" to other languages, it was "copied" 1000s of times over by illiterate scribes. There have been so many printed versions of the Bible that were later found to have blantant mistakes and manipulations, that who knows what is still accurate. I have a list of those here somewhere.

When it was translated from ancient Aramaic/Hebrew, someone had to decide which vowels went where. The ancient people believe that vowels belonged God and never wrote them down. So, if you have the letters H_T, context does not always tell you if it should be hat, hot, hut or hit, so it is left up to someone to make that call for every word in the document.

Not to mention all of the changes that were made for political, societal and financial control.

It's the longest game of telephone ever played. LOL!!

 

[Spidey7]

You are contrasting two things that aren't in opposition. The Big Bang theory doesn't say there isn't something more powerful than us behind existence.

Well it sounds like to me that you are open to the possibility that a higher power was the cause of the "big bang" which I don't have a problem with that. In space you see matter forming, supernovas, black holes where the debate rages about what happens to matter in black holes (is it destroyed or transformed from one dimension to another etc.) I believe God has a purpose and is behind it all. If you want to say that "big bangs" that are currently occuring in space are similar or identical to the ones that caused our solar system etc., then I don't have a problem with that either. Actually I don't have a problem, and I'm done talking about this and am moving back to more important things like sports.

 

[salmoneous]

I believe God has a purpose and is behind it all. <snip>I'm done talking about this and am moving back to more important things like sports.

So, you think God has a purpose and is behind the Pat's 9-0 start

PS - For the record, I'm not only open to the idea of God being behind the creation of the universe, I'm a passionate believer in it. Also, for the record, I don't think God is behind the Pat's 9-0 start.

 

[Spidey7]

So, you think God has a purpose and is behind the Pat's 9-0 start

PS - For the record, I'm not only open to the idea of God being behind the creation of the universe, I'm a passionate believer in it. Also, for the record, I don't think God is behind the Pat's 9-0 start.

Me either, everyone knows God is a Cowboys fan. Do you know why Texas Stadium has a big hole in it? So God can watch his Son coach. (Old joke during the Tom Landry days.)

The recent Pats/Cowboys game was obvious proof that God doesn't get involved in altering events here on earth.

 

[mimmom]

Jennymominri,

Love that little clip of David Tennant at the bottom of your posts.

Miriam

 

[kmbound]

Me either, everyone knows God is a Cowboys fan. Do you know why Texas Stadium has a big hole in it? So God can watch his Son coach. (Old joke during the Tom Landry days.)

Finally someone has said something intelligent!

STOP Everyone Please STOP

This whole discussion started because I said - on another board - that i did not agree with disney endorsing evolution on the ride DINOSAUR. Thats it. It has morphed into a controversy over creation v evolution and even KJV v NIV - and now soon to follow will be Cowboys v Redskins. holy crap!

None of this was originally intended and to quote one very infamous black man - "Can't we all get along" and go back to the common ground that we all love WDW and drop the heavy stuff.

 

[Spidey7]

Finally someone has said something intelligent!

STOP Everyone Please STOP

This whole discussion started because I said - on another board - that i did not agree with disney endorsing evolution on the ride DINOSAUR. Thats it. It has morphed into a controversy over creation v evolution and even KJV v NIV - and now soon to follow will be Cowboys v Redskins. holy crap!

None of this was originally intended and to quote one very infamous black man - "Can't we all get along" and go back to the common ground that we all love WDW and drop the heavy stuff.

I think some of us here just like to debate certain things, and sometimes vigorously, but it doesn't mean we're not getting along.

 

[Mikelly1221]

This is an interesting debate!

I don't remember who said something about people having presuppositions, but I do believe that we all do, and we look for things to back up our presuppositions. Creationists who believe the Bible literally will work from that presuppostion, as will evolutionists who say the Bible is a load of hooey. To say that science is only after the facts and has no presuppositions is wrong, after all, it's PEOPLE working the science, right?

Also, to those of you that had your questions shot down, especially as young people, well, that's just wrong. Our pastor has said from the pulpit on more than one occasion, "The truth has nothing to be afraid of" and many times has told us that if we have any questions about anything, to come to him and he would talk, explain, and go over our concerns and disbeliefs. Personally, I find that very welcoming, rather than shooting down any questions, as if there was something to hide and be ashamed of.

 

[JennyMominRI]

Jennymominri,

Love that little clip of David Tennant at the bottom of your posts.

Miriam

You mean my TV boyfriend David Tennant?

 

[yearbook50]

I think this conversation has gone well. Its called a discussion. People have differing views on the world and its interesting to hear about them and the topics progress from there. I learned things I didn't know about Judaism & Catholicism. I'm sorry you haven't felt the same kmbound.

 

[dcentity2000]

The Bible was formed by humans. To say the bible has not ever been manipulated by human hands is quite false. King James changed things in the bible. One must always remember that God might have communicated things to people, but some things have been miscontrued through translations and some things were intentionally manipulated.

Very true. I don't for a second believe that any holy text is the be all and end all word of God. God's truth and word is too grand and intricate to be shriveled down into our pathetically basic languages.



Rich::

 

[Laura]

I think some of us here just like to debate certain things, and sometimes vigorously, but it doesn't mean we're not getting along.

Absolutely.

 

[Art Vandalay]

To say that science is only after the facts and has no presuppositions is wrong, after all, it's PEOPLE working the science, right?

Just to clarify, it is certainly true that science does have presuppositions involved. But a key point here is that the conclusion comes after the observations, not before. There may be assumptions that lead to a flawed conclusion, but science does not seek a particular conclusion.

 

[RealMickeysGirl]

This is an interesting debate!

Yes it is!

Our pastor has said from the pulpit on more than one occasion, "The truth has nothing to be afraid of" and many times has told us that if we have any questions about anything, to come to him and he would talk, explain, and go over our concerns and disbeliefs. Personally, I find that very welcoming, rather than shooting down any questions, as if there was something to hide and be ashamed of.

What if after he talked, explained and went over your concerns and disbeliefs; you didn't agree with him? Was he content to have voiced his opinion (after all, pastors are not the be all and end all of knowledge - his opinion could be wrong - not saying it was, just that it could be) and let you figure it out from there or did he require that you came over to his way of thinking?

Personally, it doesn't matter to me who believes in creationism, evolution, a mixture of both, or neither.

I believe that something/someone had a hand in creating the universe. I know some people have a problem with vague ideas and statements, I don't. I don't feel that I have to KNOW the answers. I feel that all through life work through questions and find answers to different things. I believe that our personal theories and theologies evolve.

 

[ford family]

Is it so strange to think that God, in all His glory, could so comprehensively create a reality so intricate and perfect that it runs and evolves without any direct intervention?
Rich::

And this is one reason why the whole "God" thing falls down, for me. If one omnipotent being is responsible for all of creation (and bear in mind our galaxy is just a speck amongst billions of galaxies) why did he make everything so complicated and yet imperfect? If he had full design control why make it so intricate and why make so many mistakes?
To me the answer is simple, there is no "God" thing and everything has just developed the way it has through billions of years. I don't know how it started or when but that is because our grasp of time and space are limited to our human experience. Maybe everything eventually collapses into the black holes that appear to be at the centre of most galaxies and then explodes again as yet another big bang and so on, ad infinitum?

ford family

 

[Laura]

Just to clarify, it is certainly true that science does have presuppositions involved. But a key point here is that the conclusion comes after the observations, not before. There may be assumptions that lead to a flawed conclusion, but science does not seek a particular conclusion.

Yes, that's very true. Creationists seek evidence to support a foregone conclusion.

 

[dcentity2000]

And this is one reason why the whole "God" thing falls down, for me. If one omnipotent being is responsible for all of creation (and bear in mind our galaxy is just a speck amongst billions of galaxies) why did he make everything so complicated and yet imperfect? If he had full design control why make it so intricate and why make so many mistakes?
To me the answer is simple, there is no "God" thing and everything has just developed the way it has through billions of years. I don't know how it started or when but that is because our grasp of time and space are limited to our human experience. Maybe everything eventually collapses into the black holes that appear to be at the centre of most galaxies and then explodes again as yet another big bang and so on, ad infinitum?

ford family

It is illogical to assume that there is no higher force. Whether said force is God or not is debatable.

The classic question is, if science controls our reality, what created our reality, the very reality that contains all science on our little world?

Be it God or a bunch of aliens, it gets even more complicated when you ask, what created the higher force?



Rich::

 

[Laura]

May the Force be with you! (kidding, kidding!)

 

[Alesia]

Something I've always wondered about is the fact that there are 2 different creation stories in Genesis. If the bible is to be taken literally, why does each story list the order of creation differently?

 

[dcentity2000]

May the Force be with you! (kidding, kidding!)

OT, but, did you know that Jedi is an official religion over here in the UK? Enough people put it down as their religion in the last census for it to become a formal religion.

Personally I prefer the Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster



Rich::